Star Wars Episode VIII: A New Thread

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TFA was a solid movie, enjoyable but also not to surprising. To me, this was like All That You Can’t Leave Behind. It wasn’t as good as the Joshua Tree and didn’t take any risks but it felt close enough to their older stuff and was a fun ride all the way through with some great moments that I enjoyed it. 7/10

TLJ was complete garbage that had so many cringe moments and was laughably bad, I could only equate it to a non-existent U2 compilation that includes Stand Up Comedy, Best Thing (as performed by Bono, Adam with Kygo live in Spain)’ Elvis Ate America and American Soul amongst others. 3/10

TROS (No Spoilers) was like SOE. There were parts I loved (Little Things, Blackout, Love is Bigger) and parts and didn’t (13, LIAWHL, Showman) and a lot of filler that made the experience as a whole feel like there was no cohesiveness and was over produced at parts. 5/10
 
TLJ is by far my favorite thing to come out of Disney Star Wars and everything I've read about this movie makes me not want to waste my time. Critics, who I agreed with wholeheartedly on TLJ, are hammering this movie for being a craven hodgepodge (which the trailers already pointed to). Sounds like a betrayal of the mischievous sense of fun and creativity that the series was built on.

But hell yeah of course I'm going to waste my time regardless. If I sat through Solo, I'll give this one a go to see how they wrap it up.
 
LemonMelon said:
TLJ is by far my favorite thing to come out of Disney Star Wars and everything I've read about this movie makes me not want to waste my time. Critics, who I agreed with wholeheartedly on TLJ, are hammering this movie for being a craven hodgepodge (which the trailers already pointed to). Sounds like a betrayal of the mischievous sense of fun and creativity that the series was built on.

But hell yeah of course I'm going to waste my time regardless. If I sat through Solo, I'll give this one a go to see how they wrap it up.
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I’m curious what you think. My opinion is that if one loves TLJ, they will hate this one but we shall see.

As it stands, I predict this will open well below TLJs $220 million in North America and may miss $200. Now, keep in mind a $200 million opening or anything North of $150 is incredible for this time of year but for a Star Wars episode, anything south of $200 will feel a little disappointing and anything south of $150 and we might have a Justice League size bomb on our hands (sure it will make more than JL but it might fall short of 2 or dare I say all 3 of the prequels adjusted.

To be clear, while I hated TLJ, I love Star Wars and hope this thing can make $650/$700 domestic and $1.4/1.5. Illinois WW but I think this will trigger to get to $600 domestic and $1.1 billion WW.

Maybe it was just me that thinks this was a mess but we shall see........
 
this is the first main star wars movie that i won't be seeing in theatres since the special edition of ANH came out in 1997, so you'll all be spared any "military fanatic takes" from me at least until it pops up on streaming services.
 
George Lucas Rian Johnson raped my childhood adulthood!! :sad:

Seeing this tonight, I’ve avoided spoilers but I’m well aware Abrams has retconned some of RJ’s choices and I know this is going to be a fucking mess. If Hayden Christiansen isn’t in this I’m going to cut someone.
 
An absolute mess. Possibly the least-satisfying of all the SW films. Like a car swerving down the autobahn with several people fighting over the wheel. Some great scenes and good jokes but what a missed opportunity and some truly idiotic reveals/choices.
 
I liked it as well. It's certainly all over the place and fanservice-heavy, but no moments I absolutely hated.

All three of the sequel trilogies will fall firmly in the middle of the pack for me regarding all the SW films. The originals are still best, the prequels are still the worst. To compare to other giant series endings, it's not close to Avengers Endgame, but it's leagues ahead of GoT Season 8.

I am happy though that Disney will be moving away from the Skywalker saga for future films. Time to tell new stories in different parts and times in this galaxy.
 
I'm going to be another positive voice, and it seems the first extended remarks about the film in here so far. I really, really liked it, and I feel relieved about that, because the mixed critical reaction had me nervous going in. I am going to put my whole review in a spoiler tag for the benefit of those who haven't seen the film yet. I wrote more than I thought I would.

The major overarching flaw with this whole sequel trilogy is the fact that it wasn't planned out ahead of time, that they didn't get one director - whether it was Abrams, Johnson, or anybody else - to commit to doing all three films upfront.

There's been a lot said about both directors, but I don't think you have to pick one over the other. I think if Abrams had done the whole trilogy, it would have felt more cohesive, and the story he told in TFA and TROS could've had more time and space to develop more depth. I also think if Johnson had done the whole thing, a darker, more cynical sequel trilogy could've been really interesting. Unfortunately, neither got the whole trilogy, and the result is a sort of boxing match between the two filmmakers. So Abrams starts the story and plants a bunch of story seeds, Johnson turns it on its head and ties to subvert everything, a backlash occurs, and then Abrams does his level best to untangle a bunch knots that Johnson had tied in his film.

And there's no question that that was one of TROS's goals - to give fans what they wanted and didn't get in TLJ, to try so smooth over a number of plot points from TLJ, avoid the backlash of two years ago, and to finish, in tone and substance, as best as possible, the story Abrams had started in TFA. In short, there was a great deal of fan service. And you know what? I'm more than fine with it. Because while we can argue forever on an intellectual level about whether or not that was the right creative choice, it ultimately comes down to how you FEEL when you're watching it. If you're not into nostalgia - and there are plenty of people who aren't - than you probably won't feel much other than annoyance, and that's cloying and safe. But if you do care for nostalgia, it's a different story.

All I can say is that I felt like a little kid seeing Lando in the Falcon again. I got excited seeing Luke again - and while I continue to defend Luke's arc in TLJ, I did enjoy seeing the more upbeat Luke portrayed here. I was surprised(having avoided spoilers), and surprisingly affected, by the surprise Han cameo, and I honestly feel like it was Ford's best-acted scene as Han since ESB. Hearing him say "Hey kid" before even seeing him was a gasp-out-loud moment because I wasn't expecting it at all.

And I felt that Leia's scenes, story, and death were handled tastefully and made for a poignant send-off for both Leia and Carrie Fisher. I liked that she was portrayed as a Jedi for the first time, that she was training Rey, that she had her own lightsaber, and that Luke had trained her(and I didn't mind the CGI in the flashback, just as I didn't mind it in Rogue One). I felt like her sacrificing herself to turn her son back to the light was an effective mirror of Vader sacrificing himself to save his son. And I got chills when, after her death, they referred to her as "our princess". Yes, it's fan service, but it was just really cool to have all four of those characters in the movie.

Outside of the returning legacy characters, there were other bits of fan service that worked really well for me. I liked all of the Jedi voices at the end as well - I was particularly excited to hear Neeson's voice and both Obi-wans.

I really enjoyed the banter between Poe and Finn and Rey as they spent more time together(the one part of TLJ I really did't like was the pointless casino subplot that separated the characters).

Chewie finally getting his medal was a nice touch.

And the epic callback to ESB with Luke force levitating his old x-wing to Yoda's theme was just beautiful.

The only thing that's a little bothersome is the Palpatine thing, but with Snoke having been killed off, they were kind of in a corner. They needed an enemy for the young big 3 to be fighting against, and they didn't have time to make a new one up with only one film left, so Palps was an obvious choice. And they also wanted to make Rey connected to a known entity again instead of being "nobody", so this was a way to kill two birds with one stone. It wasn't my favorite part of the movie, but it's the only part I didn't love. I can live with it.

So, yes, fan service and appeasing the TLJ backlash was a big part of what was going on here, but it was executed very well, so I don't have a problem with it.

But there's more to praise outside of all of fan service stuff.

I dug the newly introduced force powers - I think the force healing is an interesting concept, and the force dyad is a really cool idea and a welcome explanation for how Rey and Kylo were communicating in TLJ and in this film.

I thought this was overall the best-acted film of the ST.

Billy Dee Williams didn't miss a beat, more than any of the other old characters, he was the exact same person he was in the OT, and I loved it.

I honestly think Mark Hamill has been a better actor in TLJ and TROS than he was in the OT - he was really convincing as the old Jedi Master - both the bitter, weary one in TLJ and the optimistic one in TROS. I appreciated how his sacrifice at the end of TLJ seemed to have jolted him out of his stupor, and how encouraging and warm of a presence he was for Rey when she really needed it in this film - much like Obi-wan was for him in the OT.

Like I said before, I was surprised by Ford's brief performance in his cameo. I was surprised he was even in the movie, as more than anyone else he seemed completely done with Star Wars. I even briefly thought maybe the scene had been shot during TFA, so amazed was I that he would've been convinced to come back one more time. However Abrams got him to do it though, whether it was just money or a willingness to help finish telling Leia/Carrie's story, it was worth it. I think he did a great job of conveying forgiveness and fatherly love to his son while still sounding quintessentially like Han Solo and, like I said before, I think it was his best scene as Han since ESB.

Fisher, even though her scenes were repurposed, still had such presence and such an ability to emote - she really wore such weariness on her face here. She really sold Leia as a general leading the Resistance with the weight of the world on her shoulders, having been fighting the Sith, the Empire, the First Order, etc, for all of her life.

And McDiarmid is always consistent and on-point as Palps, even if I do find his portrayal to be a little over-the-top.

But above all, I have to give props to Adam Driver. He is a GREAT actor. One of the signs of great acting is the ability to elevate the material. Kylo/Ben's turning away from the dark side is really not much more substantive than Anakin's turn to the dark side in ROTS - they both happened pretty quickly - but where Hayden struggled to play his plot out convincingly, Driver made his material look so much better than it probably really was. His reaction to Rey healing him and walking away, his conversation with Han, and the way he barely had any dialogue after becoming Ben again, and yet conveyed clearly with just his face and body that he was fundamentally different than Kylo. I thought he was just great, both in this film and the trilogy as a whole, and I feel like he's just a cut above the rest of the 'new' cast as an actor, at least in terms of what they did in these movies.

Finally, I have to praise the cinematography and the music. There were so many beautiful shots and sequences in this film - off the top of my head:

Kylo's attack in the opening scene of the film on Exegol.

Rey training on the jungle planet Ajon Kloss.

Rey and Kylo's duel on the remains of Death Star II in the middle of the water on the Endor moon Kif Bir.

The fleet of resistance fighters showing up with Lando.

The silhouette of Leia's body laying in state after her death.

The horse stampede(I know some people hated that, but I thought it looked awesome, and I prefer it to the similar use of horses in TLJ).

The binary sunset with Luke and Leia's force ghosts at the end.

It was just an absolutely gorgeous film to look at.

Musically, what can be said about John Williams that hasn't been said? I've long thought that this whole franchise never would have been nearly as successful an it's been without his score. Hearing all of the classic motifs - the main theme(the use of it when Lando arrived with all the other fighters was amazing), the imperial march, the "binary sunset" theme(for lack of a better name), Leia's theme(perfect use after her death), Yoda's theme, along with all of the newly composed pieces - in the theater was a feast for the ears, and knowing that this was Williams' last Star Wars film made me appreciate it all the more.

So, on the whole, the film certainly is, and clearly aimed to be, a feel-good crowd pleaser loaded with fan service, but it was executed phenomenally imo, so I really don't have a problem with it. I had the feels the whole time, and going by some of what I'm reading, a lot of fans did too. A curious phenomenon with TLJ that was commented on a lot was the disparity between its glowing critical reviews and its fan backlash. This seems to be reversed with TROS - its critical reviews are pretty mixed, but I've seen a lot of positive fan reaction online, particularly people who weren't fans of TLJ who were much more pleased with this outing. I am frankly a bit surprised at the critical reviews, because TFA, which was just as fan-pleasing and "familiar" as TROS, still has a 93% on Rotten Tomatoes. The critics were ok with it then, but not now? I don't really get that.

One thing seems clear - there are lines drawn between pro-TLJ sentiment and pro-TROS sentiment. From critics to fans, it seems by and large that if you loved the nostalgia-averse TLJ, you won't be a fan of TROS(I've seen critics use words like predictable, charmless, and robotic to describe TROS), and if you hated TLJ, TROS is probably a welcome return to form for you. I doubt this division is going to go anywhere any time soon. Meanwhile, I feel like I'm in the minority in that I like both films. I thought TLJ made some bold and compelling storytelling decisions(even though I'm not a fan of the casino stuff) and thought the backlash was over the top, but I also think the feel-good nature of TROS was the right way to go out.

Ultimately, Abrams had an unenviable task with this film. He had to do the following things:

1. Try, as best he could, to finish the story he'd started telling in TFA.
2. Bring the ST to an enjoyable conclusion.
3. Bring the entire Skywalker saga to an enjoyable conclusion.
4. Do this all while trying to restore the goodwill of the fanbase.
5. Do this all while working around Carrie Fisher's death.

It was a lot. And I'm sure he was under a lot of pressure from Disney to protect the brand after TLJ backlash and lackluster reception to Solo.

And I think, all told, he did an admirable job. You can complain about the fan-service or about the hectic pace(I've seen people say it was all over the place, but while it may have been physically all over the place, I thought it was narratively pretty focused from beginning to end; I've also seen people say there was never any time to breathe or think about what was going on, but while I was aware of the speed of the film, it didn't bother me), but ultimately SW has never been about thinking, it's always been about feeling, and for me, the film was a really fun, feel-good thrill-ride. There was originally a THIRD new director slated to do TROS - Colin Trevorrow - but I think going with Abrams was the right choice. The safe choice, no doubt, but the right one.

All of this said, I think it's right that the Skywalker saga is over now. There is clearly no more story to tell(unless someone wants to take a stab at remaking the prequels). They've stretched it as far as they could.

I do wonder where the SW franchise goes from here. The ST is finished, and Disney seems to have abandoned the idea of the "Star Wars Story" one-offs(or at least relegated future ones to the streaming service). The Mandelorian is happening, and there are apparently other Disney+ TV series in the works(one of them is about Obi-wan). Filmwise, there are seven films in the pipeline, the first one due in 2022, and I have no idea what any of them is going to about.

If I'm being honest, Disney has pumped out five SW films in five years, and I think it might be a mistake to only skip two years before getting back to it. I don't really know if I'm looking forward to so much more stuff in a relatively short period of time. It might be wise to let it be for a while now. I don't want it to become oversaturated like Marvel. My fear is that Disney is not going to know when to stop, and they're going to dilute the brand and burn everyone out on it. It kind of already happened with Solo. Maybe take a five year break, let people get hungry for it again.

Anyway, I loved the movie and felt it was a more-than-satisfying conclusion to the trilogy.
 
DaveC said:
this is the first main star wars movie that i won't be seeing in theatres since the special edition of ANH came out in 1997, so you'll all be spared any "military fanatic takes" from me at least until it pops up on streaming services.
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I would reconsider if I were you. The film is basically made for people that hated TLJ.

There's even a little scene that attempts to explain away the Holdo maneuver that you have such a problem with.
 
namkcuR said:
The major overarching flaw with this whole sequel trilogy is the fact that it wasn't planned out ahead of time, that they didn't get one director - whether it was Abrams, Johnson, or anybody else - to commit to doing all three films upfront.
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I don’t think this is really a spoiler as anyone who has seen TFA and TLJ + the TROS trailers should know this. With that said, you are 100% spot on with this statement. It boggles the mind that you have the most coveted franchise in North America and Europe (I might throw Australia in there too) and they clearly didn’t have a plan. This is NOT on JJ or RJ...they are responsible for the outputs but it’s Kathleen Kennedy and Lucas leadership that are accountable....they are the ones truly at fault.
 
namkcuR said:
I would reconsider if I were you. The film is basically made for people that hated TLJ.



There's even a little scene that attempts to explain away the Holdo maneuver that you have such a problem with.
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I might go again as I think it might be better than I first thought and went in with a cynical perspective due to TLJ.
 
CosmoKramer said:
I don’t think this is really a spoiler as anyone who has seen TFA and TLJ + the TROS trailers should know this. With that said, you are 100% spot on with this statement. It boggles the mind that you have the most coveted franchise in North America and Europe (I might throw Australia in there too) and they clearly didn’t have a plan. This is NOT on JJ or RJ...they are responsible for the outputs but it’s Kathleen Kennedy and Lucas leadership that are accountable....they are the ones truly at fault.
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Abrams was a producer on these films. He most certainly shares part of the blame here. He's the one who discarded most of Lucas's treatment for the trilogy but then failed to put end goals in place with his own script for Episode VII.

The defense of this abomination is so laughable I don't even know where to start, but anyone who thinks this is a satisfactory conclusion to the previous 8 films, let alone a superior saga-capper compared to Revenge of the Sith (which was actually plotted out by someone with a great imagination who knew where he was going from the beginning), is a straight-up idiot.

Enjoy your corporate-directed, focus group-tested franchise.
 
lazarus said:
Abrams was a producer on these films. He most certainly shares part of the blame here. He's the one who discarded most of Lucas's treatment for the trilogy but then failed to put end goals in place with his own script for Episode VII.

The defense of this abomination is so laughable I don't even know where to start, but anyone who thinks this is a satisfactory conclusion to the previous 8 films, let alone a superior saga-capper compared to Revenge of the Sith (which was actually plotted out by someone with a great imagination who knew where he was going from the beginning), is a straight-up idiot.

Enjoy your corporate-directed, focus group-tested franchise.
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I don't know if "the defense of this abomination" is referring to my post or to something else, but regardless, calling people idiots because they have a different opinion than you is over the top. You're better than that.
 
So I have Disney + (love it) and I put on TPM because I haven’t watched in in near 20 years and while I was disappointed when it came out and thought it was pretty bad, I wanted to give it another go. See, for me over time my tastes “evolve” and I learned this when I watched The Big Lebowski recently a movie that I hated when it came out but now I appreciate it much more and find it daily enjoyable.

With that said, holy balls is TPM as bad movie. The CGI is terrible, acting is mediocre at best and Jar Jar is significantly more annoying than I remember. I might actually rank this under AOTC and TLJ as the worst Star Wars movies.....and its episode ranking time!

1-ROTJ
2-ESB
3-TFA
4-ROTS (CGI was weak, acting spotty and the Vader “Noooo” was embarrassing but such a good movie)
5-ANH (if I was alive when this came out and old enough to see it in the theaters, no doubt it would be higher than TFA)
6-TROS (need to watch this again, so this may change)

30 feet of shit

7- TLJ
8-TPM (might drop a spot...was above TLJ but no....no it’s not)
9-AOTC

Solo was a solid movie that I thought was a fun movie. Not great but definitely not bad.
RO was a bit slow but a good movie overall. I mean, Vader slicing through rebels was the greatest 45 seconds of the entire Star Wars universe.
 
Rise of Skywalker is batshit bonkers. They threw so much at us, it's honestly been a bit hard to process.

It's a really fucking silly movie but I also had a lot of fun and left the theater happy. I love a lot of these characters and the actors playing them so it was nice to get one more adventure with them.

What the fuck is the color of Rey's lightsaber at the end? I honestly couldn't tell. Gold? Yellow? White? Thought it was odd for such a huge/potentially cool reveal for it to be difficult to tell. Maybe I'm color blind or something. I also still love Rey.
 
GirlsAloudFan said:
Rise of Skywalker is batshit bonkers. They threw so much at us, it's honestly been a bit hard to process.

It's a really fucking silly movie but I also had a lot of fun and left the theater happy. I love a lot of these characters and the actors playing them so it was nice to get one more adventure with them.
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What GAF said. This movie is absurd. I want to say I loved it, but from a filmmaking standpoint, it's awful. Still had the most fun watching it of the three. Hits all of the star wars buttons, for me, and didn't waste my time with any hour long pointless side plot (the only major thing I hated about TLJ). Facts = all three of these movies suck in one way or another and they're all just glorified fanfiction no matter how you slice it. With that in mind, they're fun to watch. They'll never be "real" to me, and that's a choice I've now fully made. And because of that, I will always enjoy all three for giving me one last look at the characters and the franchise that has meant more to me than any other film experience in my life.
 
namkcuR said:
I'm going to be another positive voice, and it seems the first extended remarks about the film in here so far. I really, really liked it, and I feel relieved about that, because the mixed critical reaction had me nervous going in. I am going to put my whole review in a spoiler tag for the benefit of those who haven't seen the film yet. I wrote more than I thought I would.

The major overarching flaw with this whole sequel trilogy is the fact that it wasn't planned out ahead of time, that they didn't get one director - whether it was Abrams, Johnson, or anybody else - to commit to doing all three films upfront.

There's been a lot said about both directors, but I don't think you have to pick one over the other. I think if Abrams had done the whole trilogy, it would have felt more cohesive, and the story he told in TFA and TROS could've had more time and space to develop more depth. I also think if Johnson had done the whole thing, a darker, more cynical sequel trilogy could've been really interesting. Unfortunately, neither got the whole trilogy, and the result is a sort of boxing match between the two filmmakers. So Abrams starts the story and plants a bunch of story seeds, Johnson turns it on its head and ties to subvert everything, a backlash occurs, and then Abrams does his level best to untangle a bunch knots that Johnson had tied in his film.

And there's no question that that was one of TROS's goals - to give fans what they wanted and didn't get in TLJ, to try so smooth over a number of plot points from TLJ, avoid the backlash of two years ago, and to finish, in tone and substance, as best as possible, the story Abrams had started in TFA. In short, there was a great deal of fan service. And you know what? I'm more than fine with it. Because while we can argue forever on an intellectual level about whether or not that was the right creative choice, it ultimately comes down to how you FEEL when you're watching it. If you're not into nostalgia - and there are plenty of people who aren't - than you probably won't feel much other than annoyance, and that's cloying and safe. But if you do care for nostalgia, it's a different story.

All I can say is that I felt like a little kid seeing Lando in the Falcon again. I got excited seeing Luke again - and while I continue to defend Luke's arc in TLJ, I did enjoy seeing the more upbeat Luke portrayed here. I was surprised(having avoided spoilers), and surprisingly affected, by the surprise Han cameo, and I honestly feel like it was Ford's best-acted scene as Han since ESB. Hearing him say "Hey kid" before even seeing him was a gasp-out-loud moment because I wasn't expecting it at all.

And I felt that Leia's scenes, story, and death were handled tastefully and made for a poignant send-off for both Leia and Carrie Fisher. I liked that she was portrayed as a Jedi for the first time, that she was training Rey, that she had her own lightsaber, and that Luke had trained her(and I didn't mind the CGI in the flashback, just as I didn't mind it in Rogue One). I felt like her sacrificing herself to turn her son back to the light was an effective mirror of Vader sacrificing himself to save his son. And I got chills when, after her death, they referred to her as "our princess". Yes, it's fan service, but it was just really cool to have all four of those characters in the movie.

Outside of the returning legacy characters, there were other bits of fan service that worked really well for me. I liked all of the Jedi voices at the end as well - I was particularly excited to hear Neeson's voice and both Obi-wans.

I really enjoyed the banter between Poe and Finn and Rey as they spent more time together(the one part of TLJ I really did't like was the pointless casino subplot that separated the characters).

Chewie finally getting his medal was a nice touch.

And the epic callback to ESB with Luke force levitating his old x-wing to Yoda's theme was just beautiful.

The only thing that's a little bothersome is the Palpatine thing, but with Snoke having been killed off, they were kind of in a corner. They needed an enemy for the young big 3 to be fighting against, and they didn't have time to make a new one up with only one film left, so Palps was an obvious choice. And they also wanted to make Rey connected to a known entity again instead of being "nobody", so this was a way to kill two birds with one stone. It wasn't my favorite part of the movie, but it's the only part I didn't love. I can live with it.

So, yes, fan service and appeasing the TLJ backlash was a big part of what was going on here, but it was executed very well, so I don't have a problem with it.

But there's more to praise outside of all of fan service stuff.

I dug the newly introduced force powers - I think the force healing is an interesting concept, and the force dyad is a really cool idea and a welcome explanation for how Rey and Kylo were communicating in TLJ and in this film.

I thought this was overall the best-acted film of the ST.

Billy Dee Williams didn't miss a beat, more than any of the other old characters, he was the exact same person he was in the OT, and I loved it.

I honestly think Mark Hamill has been a better actor in TLJ and TROS than he was in the OT - he was really convincing as the old Jedi Master - both the bitter, weary one in TLJ and the optimistic one in TROS. I appreciated how his sacrifice at the end of TLJ seemed to have jolted him out of his stupor, and how encouraging and warm of a presence he was for Rey when she really needed it in this film - much like Obi-wan was for him in the OT.

Like I said before, I was surprised by Ford's brief performance in his cameo. I was surprised he was even in the movie, as more than anyone else he seemed completely done with Star Wars. I even briefly thought maybe the scene had been shot during TFA, so amazed was I that he would've been convinced to come back one more time. However Abrams got him to do it though, whether it was just money or a willingness to help finish telling Leia/Carrie's story, it was worth it. I think he did a great job of conveying forgiveness and fatherly love to his son while still sounding quintessentially like Han Solo and, like I said before, I think it was his best scene as Han since ESB.

Fisher, even though her scenes were repurposed, still had such presence and such an ability to emote - she really wore such weariness on her face here. She really sold Leia as a general leading the Resistance with the weight of the world on her shoulders, having been fighting the Sith, the Empire, the First Order, etc, for all of her life.

And McDiarmid is always consistent and on-point as Palps, even if I do find his portrayal to be a little over-the-top.

But above all, I have to give props to Adam Driver. He is a GREAT actor. One of the signs of great acting is the ability to elevate the material. Kylo/Ben's turning away from the dark side is really not much more substantive than Anakin's turn to the dark side in ROTS - they both happened pretty quickly - but where Hayden struggled to play his plot out convincingly, Driver made his material look so much better than it probably really was. His reaction to Rey healing him and walking away, his conversation with Han, and the way he barely had any dialogue after becoming Ben again, and yet conveyed clearly with just his face and body that he was fundamentally different than Kylo. I thought he was just great, both in this film and the trilogy as a whole, and I feel like he's just a cut above the rest of the 'new' cast as an actor, at least in terms of what they did in these movies.

Finally, I have to praise the cinematography and the music. There were so many beautiful shots and sequences in this film - off the top of my head:

Kylo's attack in the opening scene of the film on Exegol.

Rey training on the jungle planet Ajon Kloss.

Rey and Kylo's duel on the remains of Death Star II in the middle of the water on the Endor moon Kif Bir.

The fleet of resistance fighters showing up with Lando.

The silhouette of Leia's body laying in state after her death.

The horse stampede(I know some people hated that, but I thought it looked awesome, and I prefer it to the similar use of horses in TLJ).

The binary sunset with Luke and Leia's force ghosts at the end.

It was just an absolutely gorgeous film to look at.

Musically, what can be said about John Williams that hasn't been said? I've long thought that this whole franchise never would have been nearly as successful an it's been without his score. Hearing all of the classic motifs - the main theme(the use of it when Lando arrived with all the other fighters was amazing), the imperial march, the "binary sunset" theme(for lack of a better name), Leia's theme(perfect use after her death), Yoda's theme, along with all of the newly composed pieces - in the theater was a feast for the ears, and knowing that this was Williams' last Star Wars film made me appreciate it all the more.

So, on the whole, the film certainly is, and clearly aimed to be, a feel-good crowd pleaser loaded with fan service, but it was executed phenomenally imo, so I really don't have a problem with it. I had the feels the whole time, and going by some of what I'm reading, a lot of fans did too. A curious phenomenon with TLJ that was commented on a lot was the disparity between its glowing critical reviews and its fan backlash. This seems to be reversed with TROS - its critical reviews are pretty mixed, but I've seen a lot of positive fan reaction online, particularly people who weren't fans of TLJ who were much more pleased with this outing. I am frankly a bit surprised at the critical reviews, because TFA, which was just as fan-pleasing and "familiar" as TROS, still has a 93% on Rotten Tomatoes. The critics were ok with it then, but not now? I don't really get that.

One thing seems clear - there are lines drawn between pro-TLJ sentiment and pro-TROS sentiment. From critics to fans, it seems by and large that if you loved the nostalgia-averse TLJ, you won't be a fan of TROS(I've seen critics use words like predictable, charmless, and robotic to describe TROS), and if you hated TLJ, TROS is probably a welcome return to form for you. I doubt this division is going to go anywhere any time soon. Meanwhile, I feel like I'm in the minority in that I like both films. I thought TLJ made some bold and compelling storytelling decisions(even though I'm not a fan of the casino stuff) and thought the backlash was over the top, but I also think the feel-good nature of TROS was the right way to go out.

Ultimately, Abrams had an unenviable task with this film. He had to do the following things:

1. Try, as best he could, to finish the story he'd started telling in TFA.
2. Bring the ST to an enjoyable conclusion.
3. Bring the entire Skywalker saga to an enjoyable conclusion.
4. Do this all while trying to restore the goodwill of the fanbase.
5. Do this all while working around Carrie Fisher's death.

It was a lot. And I'm sure he was under a lot of pressure from Disney to protect the brand after TLJ backlash and lackluster reception to Solo.

And I think, all told, he did an admirable job. You can complain about the fan-service or about the hectic pace(I've seen people say it was all over the place, but while it may have been physically all over the place, I thought it was narratively pretty focused from beginning to end; I've also seen people say there was never any time to breathe or think about what was going on, but while I was aware of the speed of the film, it didn't bother me), but ultimately SW has never been about thinking, it's always been about feeling, and for me, the film was a really fun, feel-good thrill-ride. There was originally a THIRD new director slated to do TROS - Colin Trevorrow - but I think going with Abrams was the right choice. The safe choice, no doubt, but the right one.

All of this said, I think it's right that the Skywalker saga is over now. There is clearly no more story to tell(unless someone wants to take a stab at remaking the prequels). They've stretched it as far as they could.

I do wonder where the SW franchise goes from here. The ST is finished, and Disney seems to have abandoned the idea of the "Star Wars Story" one-offs(or at least relegated future ones to the streaming service). The Mandelorian is happening, and there are apparently other Disney+ TV series in the works(one of them is about Obi-wan). Filmwise, there are seven films in the pipeline, the first one due in 2022, and I have no idea what any of them is going to about.

If I'm being honest, Disney has pumped out five SW films in five years, and I think it might be a mistake to only skip two years before getting back to it. I don't really know if I'm looking forward to so much more stuff in a relatively short period of time. It might be wise to let it be for a while now. I don't want it to become oversaturated like Marvel. My fear is that Disney is not going to know when to stop, and they're going to dilute the brand and burn everyone out on it. It kind of already happened with Solo. Maybe take a five year break, let people get hungry for it again.

Anyway, I loved the movie and felt it was a more-than-satisfying conclusion to the trilogy.
Click to expand...

Looking forward to your reiew. Hope to see it tomorrow. I

I don't see why you can't like to love bot JJA's and RJ's SW films. :shrug:

I have serious SW friends and acquaintances that go back 30 yrs+, so far they all have really liked to love it. I trust their opinions.
 
Saw it today, enjoyed it enough. Particularly liked the final scene/shot location. But overall felt a little lacking.
Definitely lacking from an emotional standpoint (which is sad considering the saga it was wrapping), only character who evoked any real emotional response from me was Chewie when
he found out CGI Leia was dead
Marvel films are so much better crafted than these Disney SW films, especially these last 2. TFA felt like an event when I saw it, today unfortunately didn't but really should have.
 
I look forward to seeing what Jon Favreau does with them. I honestly think Kathleen Kennedy is the true villain here, and mishandled all of these films.


I won't accept the idea that there's no emotion. I can't. I am like the only person on earth who doesn't like Adam Driver, and for once....for ONCE, I actually finally love him in something and I'll be damned if I have critics and fan boys take this from me.
 
Hewson said:
Marvel films are so much better crafted than these Disney SW films, especially these last 2. TFA felt like an event when I saw it, today unfortunately didn't but really should have.
Click to expand...



In fairness, what Disney Marvel has done with the MCU is unmatched by any studio and is truly amazing.

The DC universe crashed and burned, the “Monsters” universe never even got off the ground(The Mummy was bad), Ghostbusters was supposed to have a shared universe but nothing happened, Godzilla and Kong’s shared universe is a mess.....etc

The writing and PLAN/Vision (pun intended) that they have in the MCU is the difference between audiences in theaters going batshit crazy for “on your left” and what we all likely witnessed during TROS.
 
I enjoyed it enough, but it wasn't stellar by any means, and I'm one of the few that enjoyed The Last Jedi. It's amazing how so much was going on, and yet there were still glaring plot holes.

Someone mentioned the

force healing

and while it was new in the films, it was actually in the last episode of The Mandalorian, thanks to Baby Yoda. And while not as noticeable, Obi-Wan used it on Luke after being attacked by the Tusken Raiders.

As for what's next, I'm really looking forward in seeing Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan again, as he was the major highlight of the prequels.
 
Saw TROS last night.

Honestly? It was really boring for the most part. There were no stakes. There was no sense of tension or fear. Everyone kills the bad guys easily, even if they aren't force sensitive. Nobody can die, they just become one with the force. Average people can't die. Twice we assume someone dies and they don't. Plot contrivances allow characters to easily get from point A to point B. And the whole thing is one long video game fetch quest. Guys, it's a boring movie. Without getting into detailed spoilers or logical issues, that's the problem. I could get into how corny and desperate Palpatine's insertion into this film was, but that was a relatively small problem compared to the lack of stakes and struggle.

Now, it's not all bad. The acting is quite good. The score is nice. There are some warm, feely moments that are executed well. A couple things made me cry, you know, in a good way. The way Kylo's arc is handled illustrates that there was some planning and consistency involved in mapping out his fate. The ending is literally ROTJ with updated effects, but you feel the characters generally deserve what happened to them. The last scene was stupid but I didn't feel angry or cheated when I left. That's all I got.

Overall, a mediocre movie without a lot of soul. The characters have some soul, and the film draws heavily on that, but the whole enterprise itself does not. These three movies do not work together and that was to be expected. I figured some retconning of TLJ would take place, but the real problem is thematic inconsistency. Nobody seems to have learned anything from TLJ. Instead it's just ignored or treated like a moment of weakness, rather than an opportunity for personal growth. Still not the worst SW movie by any stretch, and it's even quite enjoyable in the moment, but man there are some dull stretches in this movie. Basically the whole first act is a snooze. The first act of TLJ had more creative, gutsy and memorable moments than this entire film combined.
 
I'm back at my laptop and don't have to rely on swype, so I'll expound on my impressions a bit. At its core, the reason Rise of Skywalker does not work for me as a viewing experience is that it feels 1) easy and 2) inevitable. You can have action/adventure movies that are inevitable; some of my all-time favorite films have a sense of impending doom about them that contribute to a sick sensation of fruitlessness. It's a building block of tragedy. But when a film has an inevitable ending and the journey there is easy, it's a huge problem.

One of my favorite films ever is The End of Evangelion. It's a cinematic masterpiece that ticks every box for me as a fan of anime and films in general, but I consider it a truly life-changing film on because its creators risked so much personally, creatively and financially. The stakes are sky-high: the end of the world. The entire earth could be turned to ash if our heroes don't succeed. If you've watched Neon Genesis Evangelion and come in aware of its philosophy, you get a sinking feeling from the beginning that they will fail. Nothing they do seems to work, and as the body count piles up, everything seems beyond salvation. The challenges they experience are personal and palpable, every bullet and streak of blood feeling alien to the series but very real in a horrifying way.

And they do fail. Everyone dies, in a sense. The apocalypse they experience is so unique to each character, grotesque and strangely beautiful that you want to vomit but can't stop taking in the view. It's like a crucifixion of your loved ones.



There's a feeling of confusion and helplessness that a viewer had watching this scene that, for me anyway, gives me the sensation that I'm a little kid taking in a film I shouldn't be watching. The fact that the creators put you in a mindset of failure from the beginning and strung you along on a thin thread of hope, only to cut the cord, reveals a willingness to challenge, torture and ultimately engage the viewer with no remorse. That is an utterly fearless film that, believe it or not, had a lot riding on it. One of Japan's most successful television franchises worldwide, that was a make or break film, and its creators weren't afraid to disgust, horrify and provoke reflection in its fans. Why? Because the series was a labor of love for Anno Hideaki and he was never going to give less than his best for his creation.

Another example of a film that feels inevitable but succeeds in its execution is Infinity War. We suspect from its placement in the series that some bad shit is going to go down, which is borne out in every frame of the film. Nothing about Infinity War is easy; even the henchmen hit a little harder. When our heroes find small pockets of success, it feels earned. You want them to succeed because their journey has been so trying, but when everything falls apart, it is both inevitable and earned. The philosophy, tone and actions of that film connect in a harmonious way. And even though there was risk involved in the snap, it paid off in one of the great cultural moments in American cinema this decade.

In many ways a child of End of Evangelion, the snap carries with it a similar sense of defeat, loss and confusion. Your favorite characters turn into dust (just as the EoE characters transform into fluid and melt into an ocean of souls) and there's nothing you can do but wait. In fact, these two scenes are so reminiscent of each other that there are numerous edits on YouTube merging them together:



But Star Wars is a series for kids! It can't possibly challenge its audience this way! Fuck off, of course it can. And it has. The first time was in The Empire Strikes Back, a film not entirely without hope but a real struggle for its characters regardless. It was a difficult, challenging film and divisive at the time but resulted in one of the decade's greatest action/adventure films (in a decade full of them) and one of cinema's most iconic scenes. Empire's influence spread in the ensuing decade to films like Infinity War, How to Train Your Dragon 2 and, of course, within its own franchise.

Fast forward 37 years and we were given The Last Jedi, a film that served as an echo of Empire's themes and dour tone. It insisted that anyone could contribute positively as a force for good, but that it may be a brutal climb. Nothing came easy in this film. Legendary characters died. Everyone doubted their beliefs and came through their dark night of the soul with a different perspective on the force and their place in the universe. Though an undeniably flawed and divisive film, its philosophy and actions were harmonious, leading to a complete product that can be considered a reflection of its creator's point of view.

But even though Star Wars can and does step out on a limb from time to time, the reactions are not always positive and that can be devastating with the wrong leadership. The Rise of Skywalker is entertaining but ultimately a soulless husk of a film because it fears its own audience. It refuses to challenge, question or prod. Everything comes easy and is solved within minutes. We can't even reflect on the challenges in front of our heroes as they happen because they're overcome so quickly.

Sure, anyone could tell you without even creating parallels to ROTJ that the good guys are going to win. It's the last film in the trilogy. It's common sense. But their win doesn't feel earned because the journey there was so smooth. This is an effect of the script's lack of focus and refusal to slow down, forcing plot points to be quite literally completed at lightspeed. Too many things happen too quickly with no time for reflection, something sorely needed if this film is to connect with its predecessors at all. The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi do not agree at all about matters of destiny and fatalism, but The Rise of Skywalker could have served as a mediator. Instead, it's an excuse to find MacGuffins that unlock other MacGuffins.

In the end, I don't know what this trilogy was trying to say because there was no guiding force behind it, and the ending was dull and rote because they were too scared to risk anything and have faith in its audience which is, ironically, abandoning the franchise because so little new and fresh is being contributed. It's a sad state of affairs but could have been alleviated if they had simply offered a challenge: to the characters, to the franchise, to the viewership.
 
Last edited:
Hewson said:
Saw it today, enjoyed it enough. Particularly liked the final scene/shot location. But overall felt a little lacking.
Definitely lacking from an emotional standpoint (which is sad considering the saga it was wrapping), only character who evoked any real emotional response from me was Chewie when
he found out CGI Leia was dead
Marvel films are so much better crafted than these Disney SW films, especially these last 2. TFA felt like an event when I saw it, today unfortunately didn't but really should have.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. marvel films are way better.:up::up::up:
 
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