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Old 04-17-2016, 02:23 PM   #751
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If you thought it was going to be the originals you're delusional.

The original negative was altered, so no new prints can be struck of those versions. Existing prints were all confiscated, and I'm guessing mostly destroyed. Only a handful of prints are floating around, and not likely in very good condition.
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Old 04-17-2016, 06:48 PM   #752
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It's seriously time to move on if you really think you'll ever see the Originals as they were, in high quality, ever again.

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Old 04-17-2016, 06:58 PM   #753
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I'll never stop hoping.

That said, I'd happily take a blu-ray release of the 97 versions, as at least they don't have any of the prequel stuff that the 04 and 11 versions do.

Anyway, one can already see the originals in fairly high quality if one knows where to look. A guy on originaltrilogy.com did it himself.
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Old 04-17-2016, 08:01 PM   #754
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It was great to see Mon Motha again!
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Old 04-17-2016, 08:23 PM   #755
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Star Wars: Episode VII: Revenge Of The Septuagenarian

Quote:
Originally Posted by namkcuR View Post
I'll never stop hoping.

That said, I'd happily take a blu-ray release of the 97 versions, as at least they don't have any of the prequel stuff that the 04 and 11 versions do.

Anyway, one can already see the originals in fairly high quality if one knows where to look. A guy on originaltrilogy.com did it himself.

I downloaded those de-specialise versions a while ago, good stuff. Paid particular attention to the Han - Greedo scene (obviously) just to see how he'd fix it. Not perfect and not the same, but I'll take it.

Stranger things have happened than the untampered OT being rereleased in HD. Disney is surely aware of the demand. But these versions will keep me and my wallet happy until then.

EDIT: not that I'm optimistic it will happen any time soon. Probably sometime between The Smiths reuniting and The Life of Pablo coming out on CD.
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Old 04-17-2016, 08:31 PM   #756
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Originally Posted by namkcuR View Post
I'll never stop hoping.

That said, I'd happily take a blu-ray release of the 97 versions, as at least they don't have any of the prequel stuff that the 04 and 11 versions do.

Anyway, one can already see the originals in fairly high quality if one knows where to look. A guy on originaltrilogy.com did it himself.

The later versions at least removed Luke's scream when he intentionally falls into the airshaft on Bespin instead of joining Vader. That was worse than Han shooting first, or any other change Lucas made, IMO, because it makes us think Luke accidentally fell instead of deciding to submit to the dark side's will. And I also think it's essential to use the new footage of Ian McDiarmid as The Emperor instead of that monkey thing that was still seen in the Special Edition.

And I'm assuming you hate that Hayden Christiansen replaced Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's Force Ghost at the ending of Return of the Jedi. But here's a question for you: Considering Anakin suffered severe facial burns when he was younger, you realize that he NEVER looked like Sebastian Shaw as you saw him in all pre-Blu-ray versions, right? At least he actually looked like Hayden Christiansen at some point. The only "right" image would have been to use the burn-scarred Shaw we saw then Luke took Vader's mask off, but of course no one would want to see that because it's gross. I think Lucas made the right decision for the Blu-ray, because the argument that Anakin's redeemption returns him to a purer state makes more sense than the Force imagining what his face would look like had he never been burned. As for Luke not recognizing the young Anakin, consider that Luke sees his father's face for the first time as this:



and then sees his Force Ghost like this:




I don't think Luke would "recognize" him any more than he would the young Anakin. Which is irrelevant anyway, because through the Force, Luke would know who he was looking at.

It's simply not as cut-and-dried as prequel haters would like to believe.
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Old 04-17-2016, 08:40 PM   #757
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Originally Posted by bono_212 View Post
It's seriously time to move on if you really think you'll ever see the Originals as they were, in high quality, ever again.

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I have the originals on DVD from 2006 or so. Pretty much a straight transfer of the Laserdisc, but it's better than nothing.
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Old 04-17-2016, 09:26 PM   #758
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I honestly don't mind much about the special editions aside from the wretched musical number in Jedi, holy shit.
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Old 04-17-2016, 10:07 PM   #759
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Jedi Rocks?

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Old 04-17-2016, 10:15 PM   #760
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Originally Posted by lazarus View Post
The later versions at least removed Luke's scream when he intentionally falls into the airshaft on Bespin instead of joining Vader. That was worse than Han shooting first, or any other change Lucas made, IMO, because it makes us think Luke accidentally fell instead of deciding to submit to the dark side's will. And I also think it's essential to use the new footage of Ian McDiarmid as The Emperor instead of that monkey thing that was still seen in the Special Edition.

And I'm assuming you hate that Hayden Christiansen replaced Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's Force Ghost at the ending of Return of the Jedi. But here's a question for you: Considering Anakin suffered severe facial burns when he was younger, you realize that he NEVER looked like Sebastian Shaw as you saw him in all pre-Blu-ray versions, right? At least he actually looked like Hayden Christiansen at some point. The only "right" image would have been to use the burn-scarred Shaw we saw then Luke took Vader's mask off, but of course no one would want to see that because it's gross. I think Lucas made the right decision for the Blu-ray, because the argument that Anakin's redeemption returns him to a purer state makes more sense than the Force imagining what his face would look like had he never been burned. As for Luke not recognizing the young Anakin, consider that Luke sees his father's face for the first time as this:



and then sees his Force Ghost like this:




I don't think Luke would "recognize" him any more than he would the young Anakin. Which is irrelevant anyway, because through the Force, Luke would know who he was looking at.

It's simply not as cut-and-dried as prequel haters would like to believe.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny Boy View Post
I have the originals on DVD from 2006 or so. Pretty much a straight transfer of the Laserdisc, but it's better than nothing.
Right, I'm not saying they don't exist, simply that to keep hoping every major re-release of the OT is finally going to be the unaltered films is getting sad to see.
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Old 04-18-2016, 01:21 AM   #761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazarus View Post
The later versions at least removed Luke's scream when he intentionally falls into the airshaft on Bespin instead of joining Vader. That was worse than Han shooting first, or any other change Lucas made, IMO, because it makes us think Luke accidentally fell instead of deciding to submit to the dark side's will. And I also think it's essential to use the new footage of Ian McDiarmid as The Emperor instead of that monkey thing that was still seen in the Special Edition.

And I'm assuming you hate that Hayden Christiansen replaced Sebastian Shaw as Anakin's Force Ghost at the ending of Return of the Jedi. But here's a question for you: Considering Anakin suffered severe facial burns when he was younger, you realize that he NEVER looked like Sebastian Shaw as you saw him in all pre-Blu-ray versions, right? At least he actually looked like Hayden Christiansen at some point. The only "right" image would have been to use the burn-scarred Shaw we saw then Luke took Vader's mask off, but of course no one would want to see that because it's gross. I think Lucas made the right decision for the Blu-ray, because the argument that Anakin's redeemption returns him to a purer state makes more sense than the Force imagining what his face would look like had he never been burned. As for Luke not recognizing the young Anakin, consider that Luke sees his father's face for the first time as this:



and then sees his Force Ghost like this:




I don't think Luke would "recognize" him any more than he would the young Anakin. Which is irrelevant anyway, because through the Force, Luke would know who he was looking at.

It's simply not as cut-and-dried as prequel haters would like to believe.
I do in fact dislike Christiansen at the end of ROTJ. And I will freely acknowledge that it's because Sebastian Shaw is what I grew up watching. Nostalgia matters. The original versions of these films are a part of the collective memory that will only get harder to see in the future. The original version of the original trilogy was a work of art in its own right that deserves to be preserved.

I mean...I understand all the arguments you make, but the bottom line is that, in the intervening years between 1983 and 2004(the 04 version is when Christiansen was put in), I don't think there were a lot of people complaining about Shaw not making sense at the end of ROTJ. I understand your arguments, but they're arguments made after the fact to justify a change that was mind, and I don't think they were ever being made before the change was made. Maybe you disagree.

And please don't call me a prequel hater. It's certainly true that I don't defend them the way you do, but I do recognize the good stuff in them while I will also call out all the problems with them, of which there are many.
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Old 04-18-2016, 01:24 AM   #762
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Right, I'm not saying they don't exist, simply that to keep hoping every major re-release of the OT is finally going to be the unaltered films is getting sad to see.
I don't know why it's sad to see. It's not like I'm losing sleep over it or anything. I'm done being disappointed about it, but that doesn't mean I'll stop hoping or expressing my point of view.
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Old 04-18-2016, 03:40 AM   #763
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I do in fact dislike Christiansen at the end of ROTJ. And I will freely acknowledge that it's because Sebastian Shaw is what I grew up watching. Nostalgia matters. The original versions of these films are a part of the collective memory that will only get harder to see in the future. The original version of the original trilogy was a work of art in its own right that deserves to be preserved.

I mean...I understand all the arguments you make, but the bottom line is that, in the intervening years between 1983 and 2004(the 04 version is when Christiansen was put in), I don't think there were a lot of people complaining about Shaw not making sense at the end of ROTJ. I understand your arguments, but they're arguments made after the fact to justify a change that was mind, and I don't think they were ever being made before the change was made. Maybe you disagree.

And please don't call me a prequel hater. It's certainly true that I don't defend them the way you do, but I do recognize the good stuff in them while I will also call out all the problems with them, of which there are many.

I'm definitely justifying it after the fact. I don't know that Lucas ever publicly explained his reasoning for every alteration. Clearly on one level he was trying to bolster the prequels and the connections between the two films.

Ultimately, it's not two separate trilogies in terms of telling two different stories; it's all one saga about a specific group of characters (or one family in particular and the people they're connected to), and so it's natural to want to bring things back full circle. Because the character of Anakin was fleshed out in the newer films, and you're already comfortable with updating the originals for various reasons, why not change his Force Ghost? It makes more sense for someone who would actually watch all 6 films. Who gives a shit about the guy who played him for 2 minutes at the end of ROTJ?

And I wasn't trying to single you out as a prequel hater; I just know that many people of that ilk get hung up on the Sebastian Shaw thing and I don't think it makes a lot of sense when there are more legitimate things to be mad about. It's certainly not some character betrayal like Han Shoots Second or the Luke scream.
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Old 04-18-2016, 09:26 AM   #764
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Originally Posted by lazarus View Post
As for Luke not recognizing the young Anakin, consider that Luke sees his father's face for the first time as this:



and then sees his Force Ghost like this:




I don't think Luke would "recognize" him any more than he would the young Anakin. Which is irrelevant anyway, because through the Force, Luke would know who he was looking at.

.
Nothing to do with the switching of the Anakin force ghost debate, just strictly the original ROTJ force ghost you reference (lets say had prequels never existed), my thought process was always that we saw Anakin's force ghost as his soul or spirit of the man he was deep down so that's why you see him without the burn scars etc. For whatever that's worth.
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Old 04-18-2016, 12:00 PM   #765
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I have heard the theory that Anakin's force ghost was "frozen" at the age that he turned to the dark side, but I don't remember if that idea came from the Lucas camp or was just a justification that fans came up with.

I think made to solve the logical problem that Ben and Yoda's force ghosts are old while Anakin's is young.
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