Review the Movie You Viewed VII: We're Done, Professionally - Page 52 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Lemonade Stand > Zoo Station
Click Here to Login
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-02-2009, 09:02 PM   #766
Blue Crack Addict
 
Lancemc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ba Sing Se
Posts: 17,665
Local Time: 05:42 AM
Pretty much. A lot of the line deliveries suffer purely because they're cut and pasted straight from the book. A creative decision I don't agree with, but it's hard to fault the actors too much for it.

I personally wouldn't go see the DC in theaters though. But that's just because I hate seeing this sort of thing with strangers who treat it like a party. Just a personal peeve of theater-going. Also, I'm pretty sure my terrible theater experience with the original Watchmen cut contributed to my poor reaction to it. If you take about every negative African American stereotype you can think of and distill it into one 300-pound man, that pretty much defines the guy who sat next to me for that showing. Awful.

That said, I might pick up the blu-ray for this when it comes out, if only to see the DC at a proper resolution and to check out what sounds like a good collection of bonus materials.
__________________

__________________
Lancemc is offline  
Old 07-03-2009, 12:12 AM   #767
Blue Crack Addict
 
Lancemc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ba Sing Se
Posts: 17,665
Local Time: 05:42 AM
I also meant to say before that, while I always loved the film's credit sequence, I think my favorite part of the whole movie is the opening pre-credit sequence - Blake's murder scored by Nat King Cole. If there's anything in his career that tells me Zach Snyder might be a real admirable director some day it's probably that sequence.
__________________

__________________
Lancemc is offline  
Old 07-03-2009, 12:47 AM   #768
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
 
LMP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 37,609
Local Time: 03:42 AM
Really glad to hear your new thoughts on Watchmen. It's still a flawed film, as you illustrated, but the good definitely outweighs the bad and it's certainly able to translate certain scenes/characterizations extremely well to the screen. Shit, I still have Manhattan's sequence on Mars playing in my head about 4 months after the fact. It's an incredible piece of filmmaking in terms of pacing, performance, music cues... The success of the film does hinge upon the fact that you care for a literal translation from page-to-screen, and it can't live up to the quality of the book, but it's a noble attempt nonetheless.

Kevin Smith brought up a good point in a review of the movie about the graphic nature of the violence and the sex in the film, and how those were handled in the original text. Superhero sex and the violence hit me when I read it for the first time and I could only imagine how it would back in 1985. So Snyder is ultimately responsible for making these sequences stick out for modern audiences or choosing to keep it the same. I had a problem with how insane the knot-top fight scene was in the film, but when I thought about it in that context, it helped.

I always thought the sex scene on the Archie was an inherently funny situation. It was played out a little too broad in the film, but Archie jizzing fire into the sky is a frame in the book.

Hell, I'd go as far as to say that I loved Matthew Goode's portrayal of Adrian, even if it didn't fit the part physically. The masked German accent rubbed some the wrong way, but I dug it.

The film's a good enough achievement in its own right even if it comes from an incredible piece of literature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancemc View Post
A bit discouraging. Though I'm still holding out hope I'll enjoy it a bit more than you did. However, my ranking of Mann's filmography looks a bit different as well. Also you have Manhunter twice on here.

1. The Insider
2. Heat
3. Miami Vice
4. Collateral
5. Thief
6. Ali
7. Manhunter
8. Last of the Mohicans
The Insider
Heat
Manhunter
Collateral
Thief
Miami Vice
Last of the Mohicans

for me, and I enjoy all of them. Haven't seen Ali in a while and I don't want to re-judge it until I see the Director's Cut, and I don't plan too much on watching The Keep.

Going to see Public Enemies tomorrow hopefully.
__________________
LMP is offline  
Old 07-03-2009, 12:58 AM   #769
Blue Crack Addict
 
Lancemc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ba Sing Se
Posts: 17,665
Local Time: 05:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMP View Post
Kevin Smith brought up a good point in a review of the movie about the graphic nature of the violence and the sex in the film, and how those were handled in the original text. Superhero sex and the violence hit me when I read it for the first time and I could only imagine how it would back in 1985. So Snyder is ultimately responsible for making these sequences stick out for modern audiences or choosing to keep it the same. I had a problem with how insane the knot-top fight scene was in the film, but when I thought about it in that context, it helped.
I can buy that. But I also think, given that times have changed so much and we're so used to violence in film and in superhero movies even now, that's maybe a point that didn't even need to be made in the movie. It's an important point in the novel, because it's incontext of its own medium, but it's a different game here, and more than anything that's one statement that doesn't really mean much these days. However, what I did take away from that sequence and the prison break, both of which feature Dan and Laurie kicking gratuitous ass, is in relation to those two characters. I think it speaks to their particular stake in dressing up and playing vigilante as you really see they're enjoying it and getting off big time. On the other hand I kind of do think Rorshach's butching the murderer kind of achieves what you suggest, because I even found myself pulling back and wincing when it cut to the guys face being chopped to pieces, and that really spoke to Rorshach's character development there.
__________________
Lancemc is offline  
Old 07-03-2009, 01:09 AM   #770
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
 
LMP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 37,609
Local Time: 03:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancemc View Post
I can buy that. But I also think, given that times have changed so much and we're so used to violence in film and in superhero movies even now, that's maybe a point that didn't even need to be made in the movie. It's an important point in the novel, because it's incontext of its own medium, but it's a different game here, and more than anything that's one statement that doesn't really mean much these days. However, what I did take away from that sequence and the prison break, both of which feature Dan and Laurie kicking gratuitous ass, is in relation to those two characters. I think it speaks to their particular stake in dressing up and playing vigilante as you really see they're enjoying it and getting off big time. On the other hand I kind of do think Rorshach's butching the murderer kind of achieves what you suggest, because I even found myself pulling back and wincing when it cut to the guys face being chopped to pieces, and that really spoke to Rorshach's character development there.
Right, but couldn't that sequence be used to satirize violence in action films in a similar way that it was in the novel? The entire prison sequence was fantastic, with that Oldboy-type destruction of that hall of inmates. Loved it.

Rorschach's encounter with the murderer is better in the film than it is on paper, and it makes more sense. His act is still pretty heartless in the novel, leaving the guy to his death, but the change in the movie makes it more immediate. That slow build-up of anger that he has before he destroys the guy like he did that dog was absolutely insane... and I definitely agree with what you said.

Did you ever get a chance to hear the Creative Screenwriting podcast with David Hayter and Alex Tse? Recommend it now after you've just come off re-watching the film.
__________________
LMP is offline  
Old 07-03-2009, 01:25 AM   #771
Blue Crack Supplier
 
lazarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 38,010
Local Time: 01:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMP View Post
guy to his death, but the change in the movie makes it more immediate. That slow build-up of anger that he has before he destroys the guy like he did that dog was absolutely insane... and I definitely agree with what you said.


Sorry, I just love having an excuse to post that again.
__________________
lazarus is offline  
Old 07-03-2009, 01:26 AM   #772
Blue Crack Addict
 
Lancemc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ba Sing Se
Posts: 17,665
Local Time: 05:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMP View Post
Did you ever get a chance to hear the Creative Screenwriting podcast with David Hayter and Alex Tse? Recommend it now after you've just come off re-watching the film.
Link pls? I hear about that show every week on filmspotting, but never checked it out.

And to your first point, I might agree, except I just don't think it is satirizing violence in action films. I think Zach Snyder really just thinks it looks cool, though I'm sure he'd say the same thing about needing to amplify the degree of violence to try to keep up with the changing times. I really doubt it's designed to be ironic or satirical though, because that's just how Snyder films his action scene in all 3 of his features.
__________________
Lancemc is offline  
Old 07-03-2009, 01:42 AM   #773
Blue Crack Supplier
 
lazarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 38,010
Local Time: 01:42 AM
One could make the argument, especially in the opening scene in Blake's apartment, that Snyder is causing us to look at time as perceived by Dr. Manhattan. As fast or as slow as he chooses (and this is something that really pervades the entire film, from the credit sequence to the various flashbacks of the characters). The usage of Unforgettable on the soundtrack is ironic on several different levels (the perfume is made by Veidt, the public sentiment towards costumed heroes, etc.), but one could also point out the song deals with time and memory literally.

Perhaps I'm giving Snyder too much credit, but of course the end result is what the viewer takes away from it, regardless of director intent. The alley scene needs to be over the top and brutal, because don't we as the audience need to "get off" on it so that we can identify with how it makes Dan and Laurie feel?

Perhaps the prison sequence is finally just overusing it one time too many, as it doesn't serve a purpose that hasn't already been explored.
__________________
lazarus is offline  
Old 07-03-2009, 01:53 AM   #774
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
 
LMP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 37,609
Local Time: 03:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancemc View Post
Link pls? I hear about that show every week on filmspotting, but never checked it out.

And to your first point, I might agree, except I just don't think it is satirizing violence in action films. I think Zach Snyder really just thinks it looks cool, though I'm sure he'd say the same thing about needing to amplify the degree of violence to try to keep up with the changing times. I really doubt it's designed to be ironic or satirical though, because that's just how Snyder films his action scene in all 3 of his features.
Enjoy: Creative Screenwriting Magazine: Watchmen Q&A

It could go either way. I do appreciate how he incorporates levels of pop culture within the movie, too: his Vietnam looks like an amalgamation of other film versions of Vietnam (and the "Ride of the Valkyries" sound cue is there to boot), Manhattan's bedroom looking right out of 2001, Nixon's war room being evocative of Strangelove. That sort of attention to detail and idea seems to be something other than just "looking cool," and if it applies to that sort of post-modern style he employs throughout the rest of the film, you could make a decent argument that the violence follows suit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazarus View Post
One could make the argument, especially in the opening scene in Blake's apartment, that Snyder is causing us to look at time as perceived by Dr. Manhattan. As fast or as slow as he chooses (and this is something that really pervades the entire film, from the credit sequence to the various flashbacks of the characters). The usage of Unforgettable on the soundtrack is ironic on several different levels (the perfume is made by Veidt, the public sentiment towards costumed heroes, etc.), but one could also point out the song deals with time and memory literally.

Perhaps I'm giving Snyder too much credit, but of course the end result is what the viewer takes away from it, regardless of director intent. The alley scene needs to be over the top and brutal, because don't we as the audience need to "get off" on it so that we can identify with how it makes Dan and Laurie feel?

Perhaps the prison sequence is finally just overusing it one time too many, as it doesn't serve a purpose that hasn't already been explored.
That's a really interesting theory. I'd buy it more of the Veidt perfume bottle on Mars thing was left in the film, and more dialogue about he perceives time.

Using slow motion as an aesthetic choice doesn't bother me as long as it comes at the right moment. It never took me out of it during the opening fight sequence but did a little bit during the prison break. I forgive it though, because I love being able to see the action choreography, and I think Snyder stages action pretty well, too, allowing the viewer to almost feel the impact of each hit with his choice of shot and speed. I prefer it over the more prevalent shaky-cam, fast-paced-style, at least.
__________________
LMP is offline  
Old 07-03-2009, 01:54 AM   #775
Blue Crack Addict
 
Lancemc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ba Sing Se
Posts: 17,665
Local Time: 05:42 AM
I think the time thing is a stretch, but as you said, it's kind of out of a filmmakers hands at this point.

But I did suggest the alley scene functions in that very way, whereas a few other occasions of violence don't quite pull it off so well.
__________________
Lancemc is offline  
Old 07-03-2009, 02:02 AM   #776
Blue Crack Addict
 
Lancemc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ba Sing Se
Posts: 17,665
Local Time: 05:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMP View Post
Using slow motion as an aesthetic choice doesn't bother me as long as it comes at the right moment. It never took me out of it during the opening fight sequence but did a little bit during the prison break. I forgive it though, because I love being able to see the action choreography, and I think Snyder stages action pretty well, too, allowing the viewer to almost feel the impact of each hit with his choice of shot and speed. I prefer it over the more prevalent shaky-cam, fast-paced-style, at least.
I agree. Much better here than in 300 too, though I'm sure that film really trained him for what he achieves here. Despite some of my reservations regarding some of Watchmen's sequences, Snyder is a total pro as filming action. It's a big reason the opening scene is my favorite part of the movie. It's fucking beautiful. Brilliant spacial choreography, brilliant camera work, and I love the interplay between graceful slow-mo and quick visceral impacts. Kudos to the sound design too for capturing that hyper-real comic crunchiness. A lot of this shit totally puts Nolan to shame in that department. Despite this discussion regarding the tone of these scenes, on their own they stand up with the best Hollywood fights this decade i.e. Spiderman/Matrix series.
__________________
Lancemc is offline  
Old 07-03-2009, 02:36 AM   #777
Blue Crack Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 26,960
Local Time: 01:42 AM
After watching it again, can I just reiterate how much I love Sunshine? In fact, I like it better than 28 Days Later.
__________________
the tourist is offline  
Old 07-04-2009, 01:40 AM   #778
LMP
Blue Crack Supplier
 
LMP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 37,609
Local Time: 03:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazarus View Post
Public Enemies.

I don't wanna say MEH, but this wasn't one of Mann's better films. Depp is Depp, which means he doesn't even come close to creating a character with the depth of Will Smith in Ali, De Niro or Pacino in Heat, or Colin Farrell in Miami Vice. Not a surprise, as he doesn't have the acting skills of any of those guys. Someone else may not have looked as perfect, but might have made it a bit more interesting. Cotillard blows him out of the water, a fantastic supporting turn

A handful of VERY well done scenes, especially the last 15 minutes or so, so it won me over to an extent. But I wouldn't describe it as anything more than "good".

Miami Vice is a superior film in almost every way, and I'd rank PE at the bottom of Mann's filmography with Collateral (which also had some standout material but overall didn't have much of an effect on me). Keep in mind I like 1-8 a LOT.

1. Heat
2. Manhunter
3. Miami Vice
4. Last of the Mohicans
5. Manhunter
6. The Insider
7. Ali
8. Thief
9. Collateral
10. Public Enemies

N/S The Keep
I'm not as big on Miami Vice as you and Lance are, but I contribute that more to a bad theater experience than anything else, I guess. Plus, like with Ali, I'd like to check out the Director's Cut to see if anything's significantly different.

Anyway, caught Public Enemies today and I enjoyed it a good deal. It doesn't hit the heights of his other films, but like you said, there were some really well-done sequences (the prison breakouts, cabin shootout, Dillinger meeting Billie for the first time) and the rest as passable.

Mann's rejection of exposition for most of the film is refreshing and keeps the flow of the film going as the Purvis/Dillinger cat-and-mouse game continues. I do think the film would've benefited more with a Heat-based template, or at least a stronger performance out of the Purvis character to up the stakes as the FBI pulled in closer to Dillinger. Depp was alright, not remarkable. The performances that did stand-out for me were Cotillard, the guy that played Red, and Stephen Lang as Winstead... especially in the final scene of the film.

There's a lot of good to be found here, just not a whole lot of great.
__________________
LMP is offline  
Old 07-04-2009, 01:44 AM   #779
Blue Crack Addict
 
Lancemc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ba Sing Se
Posts: 17,665
Local Time: 05:42 AM
Looks like I'm waiting till tuesday to catch PE now. Though I guess I'm not expecting a masterpiece or anything any more. Which is fine. Did you catch the filmspotting review?
__________________
Lancemc is offline  
Old 07-04-2009, 01:56 AM   #780
Blue Crack Supplier
 
lazarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 38,010
Local Time: 01:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMP View Post
Plus, like with Ali, I'd like to check out the Director's Cut to see if anything's significantly different.
It definitely is different.
__________________

__________________
lazarus is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com