Review the Movie You Viewed VII: We're Done, Professionally

[phillyfan26]

Another long time coming: Pulp Fiction.

Same as Lebowski in expectation and execution.

 

[deep]

So I finally got to see Tarsem Singh's The Fall, and damn if that's not one of the most staggering films I've ever seen. I'd heard that it was visually stunning and filmed all over the world, but that the story was lacking. I have to say I disagree, the leads were great (I'd only ever seen Lee Pace on Pushing Daisies, his dramatic work he really impressed me), and the weaving together of the story was really imaginative, and dark as hell, the story seems innocent but wow, quite the gutpunch, the climax of the story as he and Alexandria are fighting over the control of the story was just exhilarating. Complimentary and not distracting music as well. The one thing I didn't love was just how it ended, I suppose it shows her innocence is still somewhat intact, and the his life went on, but I thought following that sequence I was talking about, it kind of let the air out.

Talk about dedication to a vision as well, as he financed the whole thing himself, its just too bad no one saw it.

it seems either people like this a lot
or just pick it apart


I fall into the camp that things it is a very good film, for the reasons you mention.

 

[lazarus]

Manhunter (a gem of an early effort, and my favorite portrayal of Lector, because he's unnervingly believable as a real person, and he's not the central character, the way the book intended. Whereas Hopkins' later performances were amazing for a screen-villain, but there's no way you'd ever believe there could be a person like that, and the screenwriters shifted too much of the focus on him.)

Thank you.

 

[joyfulgirl]

So I finally got to see Tarsem Singh's The Fall, and damn if that's not one of the most staggering films I've ever seen. I'd heard that it was visually stunning and filmed all over the world, but that the story was lacking. I have to say I disagree, the leads were great (I'd only ever seen Lee Pace on Pushing Daisies, his dramatic work he really impressed me), and the weaving together of the story was really imaginative, and dark as hell, the story seems innocent but wow, quite the gutpunch, the climax of the story as he and Alexandria are fighting over the control of the story was just exhilarating. Complimentary and not distracting music as well. The one thing I didn't love was just how it ended, I suppose it shows her innocence is still somewhat intact, and the his life went on, but I thought following that sequence I was talking about, it kind of let the air out.

Talk about dedication to a vision as well, as he financed the whole thing himself, its just too bad no one saw it.

it seems either people like this a lot
or just pick it apart


I fall into the camp that things it is a very good film, for the reasons you mention.

I fall into the camp that couldn't wait for it to be over. I tried...I really did...

 

[powerhour24]

So now I want to watch more of Michael Mann's films. I've seen Heat, Miami Vice, and Collateral. I need to watch Collateral again since it's the only one I own (buy one, get two free previously viewed at a blockbuster a few years back). Since I'm reading Red Dragon now, I suppose Mannhunter will be next.

pssst, The Insider is amazing.

 

[Slapnutz]

Yep. The Insider is, as we say, 'the dog's bollocks'. Crowe, for one, has never been better.

 

[LMP]

Yep. The Insider is, as we say, 'the dog's bollocks'. Crowe, for one, has never been better.

Which is why he got the make-up Oscar the year after.

 

[Slapnutz]

And well deserved it was too.

 

[LMP]

And well deserved it was too.

Totally agree. Further proof that '99 was an incredible year for film.

 

[Vince Offer]

Has anyone seen The Underground Comedy Movie?


I highly recommend it.

 

[Lancemc]

You can count on a characteristically long-winded review some time tomorrow, but I am high high high on Mann love right now. Higher than a kite. I'm so very happy to be in opposition to the reactionary consensus on Public Enemies right now. Love love looove it. Like, Miami Vice love it.

 

[lazarus]

That's unfortunate.

 

[the tourist]

So I just watched Mannhunter and found myself pretty disappointed. Perhaps it's due to the fact that I'm reading the book, too, but the characters just don't seem real enough to me. Especially Dolarhyde. And I can't stand Lecktor's voice. Although I haven't watched it in years (and should again), I like Red Dragon better. I'm sure that's blasphemy here, but that's how I feel. I liked Norton better than Peterson, Hopkins better than Cox (though I do understand Hopkins hams it up, I love that), and especially I like Keitel better than Farina, Seymour-Hoffman better than Lang, and Fiennes better than Noonan. Ah well. It was a fun watch nonetheless... just a disappointment after all the hype it got in here.

 

[Lancemc]

Public Enemies

So I have to that guy this time around I guess. I'm with Jeff Wells and Manohla Dargis on this one, though I suspect I might have actually liked it even more than either of them. Might as well stick the needle in quick: This might be my favorite Michael Mann film. Let's revisit the list. A more vague tiered ranking this time -

Public Enemies/Miami Vice
------------------------------
The Insider/Heat
------------------------------
Collateral
------------------------------
Ali/Manhunter/Thief
------------------------------
Last of the Mohicans

Hmm. Where to start? My friend I saw this with didn't like it at all. He called it "distractingly messy." And I can't really fault him for it, because he on to something. I wouldn't call Mann's construction here "messy" and certainly not "distracting," but it is disorderly by a design. What's most stunning about this film is the great contradiction of Mann's visual aesthetic. He at once embraces the classical Warner Brothers gangster style of Golden Age Hollywood and captures it in modern crystal-clear HD handheld lenses. The result is something most critics and audiences seem to have found unappealing, but I think along side the many thematic folds this accents throughout the film, there's something remarkably beautiful about the whole thing. One reaction I read declared the film was akin to a staged play, only instead of watching from the theater seats, you're allowed up on stage with the players and lead by the hand to all the really interesting perspectives.

The story itself follows a man at the start of his inevitable downward decline. John Dillinger is talented at what he does, but he and we discover rather quickly that the world is fast outrunning him into a new era. When we first see him, breaking his comrades out of prison and courting the young coat-check girl, Dillinger quite effectively wants everything... now, as he puts it. And through careful cooperation with his gang and underground contacts, he lives one day at a time stealing his way to paradise. However, when we see him near the end of the film, having lost all his friends and even his favorite girl, he appears more a common man overshadowed by his celebrity who clearly only wants one modest thing and to be left alone.

The parallel subplot inverts this trajectory, following the blossoming of Hoover's new FBI, fronted here by G-Man Melvin Purvis. At the beginning of the picture, these are the good guys making due with humble resources, though by the end of the film Hoover's field men are frequently seen scheming in dark rooms, beating on suspects, and orchestrating missions Dillinger himself would be proud of. Though Dillinger doesn't achieve anything close to redemption, the role reversal is rather well established by the final act and does much to blur the lines between the lawful and criminal. Melvin Purvis in a fascinating character as we watch him struggle with losing his own soul to a continuously less admirable federal agency. And while not necessarily overt (though really nothing is overt here), one might draw explicit parallels between Purvis himself and Dillinger; two men facing the future, both pressed into the limelight as frontmen for their respective organizations and ideologies. Though either man might deal with their position differently, I think we can surmise that they were both aware of their fates from the beginning.

And showmanship is of key relevance to this pictures, one half of another important contradiction explored between either side's "true" identity and their performance-like public facade. I could probably go deeper into this, but I'd like to see the film a second time. However, it is interesting how this idea correlates beautifully into Mann's formal construction of the film, itself a peculiar contradiction. Much of the mise-en-scene and dialogue is pure classic genre material, and I adore the way Mann contorts it, pervades it, and ultimately transforms it with jarringly modern tools. Though I feel once this dichotomy is established the form and content turn into something organic and beautiful as many of the film's symmetries, dualities, and patterns become more apparent. A particular favorite of mine is the cross-fading modern orchestral score from Eliot Goldenthal (a criminally underappreciated composer) and period ballads that underline Dillinger's scene's with Billie.

Like I said, that's just one example among dozens, and I don't think anyone wants me to go through all of them. Plus I'd like to see the film again before really digging in further. But I guess I should address some more clinical matters as well. I don't think it's fair to say this isn't a particularly performance-reliant film, but it's clear there isn't any legendary turn here like James Caan, Pacino, Crowe, or Farrell in their respective Mann films. The ensemble here is directed to play it all pretty close to the chest, and it all works. A film more about observation than exposition, Bale's and Depp's roles suit their strengths rather well here. Each actor shines beyond their talents in the moments that require them to communicate deeply internal rhythms. However, I will say that I love Crudup's small turn as the slimy JE Hoover, and fell head-over-heels for Cotillard's presence here, another astonishingly physical performance not unlike Gong Li's in Miami Vice.

I've heard the film described in terms of a number of great sequences strewn throughout an otherwise middling film. I think I've made it clear I don't have any problems with the bulk of the film; in fact I don't think there's a single frame without purpose or careful design. But those "great sequences" really do deserve special mention if I were to pick the film apart at the seams. Personally, I think the Little Bohemia sequence completely trounces its counterpart centerpiece in Heat. And I think the final 15 minutes of this film are far and away the finest 15 Mann has ever directed. Only the finale of Heat and opening montage of Ali come close. Mann manages to elevate his bizarre creation into something truly transcendent by the end, really blowing out his visual artistry into something abstract, surreal and stunningly gorgeous; as this sequence (I'm talking about Depp's stroll through the police station, which incidentally is probably my favorite scene in the film, through to the final shots of Billie and Stephen Lang's federal agent) brings to a head all those aforementioned thematic and formal preoccupations in spectacular near-silent fashion, excusing a few key spoken lines and Goldenthal's majestic work. I could really dive into all the narrative symmetries and new-icon building images in this final bit alone, but I'll spare you with what has already become a far more long-winded review than I promised.

But yeah, I love Public Enemies more than anything I've seen in a movie theater in years. So fuck you.

 

[lazarus]

Personally, I think the Little Bohemia sequence completely trounces its counterpart centerpiece in Heat.

No fucking way. I guess I found it somewhat cool, but it was also a bit of an incoherent mess, and not helped by the fact that we barely got to know any of the people involved--there really didn't feel like there was much at stake. By contrast, even when a minor character like Dennis Haysbert bites it in Heat, there's some weight to it. Plus, while PE's shootout may be unique because of the low lighting, it's not nearly as thrilling as seeing a daytime bank robbery spill out onto the streets of downtown Los Angeles, and how realistically such an event is choreographed and depicted.

And I think the final 15 minutes of this film are far and away the finest 15 Mann has ever directed. Only the finale of Heat and opening montage of Ali come close.

This section of the film is what saved it for me, and left me leaving with an overall positive feeling (with reservations).

However, I doubt that scene with Dillinger in the police station is taken from actual history, and if it isn't, it comes off as a hell of a contrivance. And Mann is someone who seems rather detail oriented; it would be a shame if he had to resort to this kind of trick just to get a late rise of the audience, even if there's a thematic point being made. It's a bit of an eye-roller.

It should also be mentioned that Baby Face Nelson did not die at Little Bohemia, and was not only killed over six months later, but AFTER Dillinger's death. Same thing with Pretty Boy Floyd, who is shown being killed by Purvis at the BEGINNING of Public Enemies!! WTF? You can talk all you want about having to condense history, but that is just fucking sloppy.

But yeah, I love Public Enemies more than anything I've seen in a movie theater in years. So fuck you.

I was talking with a friend today and we were comparing this to Soderbergh's Che, which we felt were similar projects. Both directors are considered to be somewhat cold and distant in their directorial approach. Both films are about controversial public figures. And of course, both are able to use the digital format to find new and more intimate ways of expressing ideas and emotions through their imagery.

My point is that Public Enemies isn't even in the same ballpark as the majesty of Che, and not just because of Del Toro's brilliant performance. I understand that PE is meant to be a much more mainstream enterprise, but there is just so much more going on in Soderbergh's film, on every level. And if you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Lancemc]

No fucking way. I guess I found it somewhat cool, but it was also a bit of an incoherent mess, and not helped by the fact that we barely got to know any of the people involved--there really didn't feel like there was much at stake. By contrast, even when a minor character like Dennis Haysbert bites it in Heat, there's some weight to it. Plus, while PE's shootout may be unique because of the low lighting, it's not nearly as thrilling as seeing a daytime bank robbery spill out onto the streets of downtown Los Angeles, and how realistically such an event is choreographed and depicted.

Well, contrary to popular opinion, I don't think Mann's strengths have ever really been in action set-pieces or gunfights so it were. I applaud his perception of realism and detail, particularly in his sound work, but I never found that sequence in Heat particularly thrilling to begin with. I suppose my comment there might have been a bit deliberately inflammatory because of this. But I have to say I don't think that shoot-out carries much weight, if only because the pacing leading up to it isn't that strong. I don't think the stakes were addressed as strongly as they could have been , thus when the decision to pull the job was reached, I didn't feel the risk like I did leading up to Little Bohemia. It also helps we get that pivotal moment when the first arrive where Dillinger decides to leave the game so to speak. What it does best though is build on Purvis' recklessness and decaying moral core.

As for the Heat sequence I agree the concept is certainly more novel, but I prefer the execution in PE. I don't think it's particularly messy at all. I suppose there are a couple trajectories that branch out throughout the sequence, but I never felt the geography was unclear or lost track of who was who. Also, sure you never really get to know most of the minor characters, so there's no emotional investment, but I sort of felt the same away about the side characters in Heat at that point in the film too. I couldn't care less when Haysbert's character bites it. I don't think either sequence is much different in this regard. And I think PE here delivered on much of the promise of Mann's DV verite docu-style. He describes the film as like shooting in a warzone, and this is obviously the most explicit realization of that. Finally, whereas Heat's shoot-out is very professionally crafted, there's not much particularly evocative of it. Mann really transforms the landscape into something visually surreal and alien in Little Bohemia, and yeah the low light sources do add a lot, be it the mist rising off the river, Dillinger lighting up his oddly German-expressionist bedroom with muzzle flashes, or the night time car chase over the dark hilly roads.

However, I doubt that scene with Dillinger in the police station is taken from actual history, and if it isn't, it comes off as a hell of a contrivance. And Mann is someone who seems rather detail oriented; it would be a shame if he had to resort to this kind of trick just to get a late rise of the audience, even if there's a thematic point being made. It's a bit of an eye-roller.

It's a thin line to walk I suppose. If you haven't really bought into the film by this point, I can see the perception of contrivance, but having invested into Mann's vision this came off very surreal and fragilely beautiful to me. It was as though Dillinger were walking through a different plane unnoticed, like a spirit suspended on those rays of light shining throughout the station. I felt it was an important moment for his character, looking over his gunned down allies and imprisoned lover before observing himself as though he were still out there unfettered and not standing there in that station. I'm not even entirely convinced that scene actually happened in the reality of the film.

It should also be mentioned that Baby Face Nelson did not die at Little Bohemia, and was not only killed over six months later, but AFTER Dillinger's death. Same thing with Pretty Boy Floyd, who is shown being killed by Purvis at the BEGINNING of Public Enemies!! WTF? You can talk all you want about having to condense history, but that is just fucking sloppy.

I doubt it's "sloppy." As you said, someone so research-heavy and detail oriented as Michael Mann isn't going to overlook those historical facts. But really, I'm not sure 99% of the people who watch this are going to give a flying fuck when either of those characters actually died. He made clearly made a decision between honoring history faithfully and taking a few cases of artistic license for the sake of his characters and narrative. I don't mind in the least. And as I began to suggest with the last bit about the police station, I don't think the film concerns itself with reality as strongly as it might at first suggest, with much of the surrealism and especially with its explicit deconstruction with old Hollywood and cinematic symmetries.

My point is that Public Enemies isn't even in the same ballpark as the majesty of Che, and not just because of Del Toro's brilliant performance. I understand that PE is meant to be a much more mainstream enterprise, but there is just so much more going on in Soderbergh's film, on every level. And if you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you.

Che was definitely on my mind during this film, as was Jesse James which was mentioned earlier as well. Firstly, I think you're wrong about PE as a mainstream enterprise, as least in its design. Obviously, it's been marketed and pushed there in a big way and has a lot typical mainstream trappings (which come with Mann's fascinations and the inherent genre materials within which Mann is experimenting), but so did Miami Vice. Point being, as I addressed in my review, PE has great wealths of depth and artistry, which pushed it above either of those films for me... among other things of course. But I know a lot of it didn't work for you, and I doubt I'm changing any of that. Oh well. You don't know what to tell me. Clearly, as you didn't really tell me anything on that last point. You could start with what exactly is "so much more going on" in CHE, so I'd know what more to address. I'm not being facetious either, but I really don't think we ever discussed the film in that sort of level originally so I'm genuinely curious. I think CHE's a fucking masterpiece as well, but I also think it was decidedly more narrow in focus, not to its detriment. But I'd suggest the films are perfectly comparable as works of art and given their similar conceits deserve to be.

 

[LMP]

I'm more excited to hear your review for Transformers 2, Lance.

 

[Lancemc]

There's really only thing on this earth that can approach the sheer chaos and terrifying exhilaration of Bayformers: Revenge of the Bay.

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZHh9ckRC6M

 

[LMP]

There's really only thing on this earth that can approach the sheer chaos and terrifying exhilaration of Bayformers: Revenge of the Bay.

*Quoting the video breaks the forum*

Those are the first sounds you hear in Robot Heaven.

I'm still torn on my feelings of Public Enemies... I probably fall somewhere in-between you and Laz in terms of how I enjoyed the film. Like you, I loved it on an aesthetic level, but still have reservations on certain story elements and the performances of Depp and Bale.

If it hits the dollar theatre, I'd love to give it a second chance. If not, I'll wait 'til DVD. Plus, I've always enjoyed watching his films at home where I can sit and dissect what's going on in a more comfortable environment.

 

[Lancemc]

It's a shame they didn't get The Blum to voice Optimus Prime. Total wasted opportunity. And one they'll now never be able to correct.

It's also worth noting that unlike something like Jesse James, I think PE's aesthetics really stand out in how rooted they are from conception in a number of the film's thematic threads.

 

[LMP]

It's a shame they didn't get The Blum to voice Optimus Prime. Total wasted opportunity. And one they'll now never be able to correct.

It's also worth noting that unlike something like Jesse James, I think PE's aesthetics really stand out in how rooted they are from conception in a number of the film's thematic threads.

The Blum still has a chance to be Unicron, so there's that.

 

[Lancemc]

So I watched some stuff recently:

Ed Wood
I think this might have actually been the last Tim Burton film I haven't seen. Ehh, I enjoyed it. Certainly not of the classic status I feel many have associated to it. Depp and Landau are pretty fantastic, and I always enjoy a good movie about Hollywood. Certainly don't like it as much as Pee-Wee's Big Adventure or Batman Returns, however.

Solyaris
Speaking of classics. Brilliant science fiction from one of the world's more visual filmmakers. Has there been a more beautifully structured sci-fi story than this? I kind of doubt it. That said, I'm not sure if this is my favorite of his work or not. But who can decide anyway? I'm glad I've done away with my 10-point rating scale, because I'd hate to have to nit-pick this one. It's just excellent.

Knowing
Roflcopters silhouetted by the setting sun. This is an intermittently intriguing, beautiful and thrilling movie (and I'm not just referring to Nic Cage's awesome hair), but it more frequently undercuts any dramatic or cinematic achievements with ridiculous lame moments or bone-headed lunacy. That said, it's surprisingly spooky in parts, which was kind of pleasant in a time where horror films are about as despicably awful as have ever been. But ultimately, I'd say pass on this one. There's nothing quite as unintentionally amusing as Will Smith getting pissed off at God Damn ROBOTS.


What's on the plate tonight... I downloaded a good copy of Revanche, an Austrian thriller that blew through theaters some time earlier this year, a film I've heard nothing but amazing things about. It looks fantastic. I also managed to get a hold of Antonioni's Red Desert. Which I've been dying to see for a while now. We'll see if I squeeze that one in too.

 

[lazarus]

Solyaris
Speaking of classics. Brilliant science fiction from one of the world's more visual filmmakers. Has there been a more beautifully structured sci-fi story than this? I kind of doubt it. That said, I'm not sure if this is my favorite of his work or not. But who can decide anyway? I'm glad I've done away with my 10-point rating scale, because I'd hate to have to nit-pick this one. It's just excellent.

What's on the plate tonight... I downloaded a good copy of Revanche, an Austrian thriller that blew through theaters some time earlier this year, a film I've heard nothing but amazing things about. It looks fantastic. I also managed to get a hold of Antonioni's Red Desert. Which I've been dying to see for a while now. We'll see if I squeeze that one in too.

Solaris is a great film, but possibly my least favorite Tarkovsky. And that says a lot about the quality of that guy's work.

Red Desert = all kinds of amazing. Don't know if you've seen any Antonioni before, but it might very well be his best.

 

[Lancemc]

I've seen some Antonioni, you might remember me raving all over The Passenger a while back. L'Avventura and L'Eclisse I've also seen, as well as his Eros short and parts of The Night.

 

[mad1]

I saw ten mins of Twin Peaks Come Walk With Me last night, in was on TV, and honestly, Ive never watched this movie in its entirety, but for what I saw, I wish to fuk I was totally stoned.

 

[lazarus]

Funny People

Friend of mine took me to see an advance screening, and Judd Apatow talked and answered questions for a good length of time afterwards.

Movie is more serious than his last two in terms of subject matter, but the vulgarity has not been diminished in the slightest. Raunchy, raunchy humor. Maybe even moreso than the others. I was laughing so hard I was missing jokes. No shit.

Sandler was fantastic. He's already proven himself to be capable of something heavier before, but he's also able to play to his juvenile strengths as well. Leslie Mann, beautiful, funny, and moving as always. Rogen doesn't have as interesting a role, but does have a handful of great jokes.

Yeah it could have been shorter, and 2.5 hours is long for a comedy. But I really didn't want it to end, and it's not told in a conventional fashion. Keeps you guessing.

Apatow was just as funny after the movie. Very revealing about the process.

 

[Lancemc]

This movie has me curious. In many ways it sounds like it could be a genuinely interesting film for Apatow. I wonder if you think he's evolved any as a director or if it's essentially the same as his last couple.

Personally, I haven't really been impressed by his work. I think 40YOV is a very funny movie though, and get major points for surviving multiple viewings rather well, although I think a lot of the conventional storytelling gets really old rather quickly. Knocked Up didn't even survive a single rewatch for me. I thought it was enjoyable the first time around, but suffered even more from dragging dramatic threads. Seeing it again, urrgh. Awful. So much I hate about that one.

And yeah, I do think both of those movies are far too long, and it's just a matter of length, but a matter of them being long because of really ineffective drama that overstays its welcome. I have a lot of reservations about Funny People, and wasn't even planning on seeing it at all initially. But it does seem to be doing some interesting things from what I've seen. Grabbing Kaminski for DP is certainly a step in the right direction.

 

[lazarus]

Well it certainly looks better due to Kaminski, but I would also say there's a definite evolution in blocking, transitions, montages, etc. Composition doesn't really stand out but there's still some nice verite stuff going on.

 

[LMP]

How much are Raaaaaaaandy, Schwartzman, and Jonah Hill in it?

 

[lazarus]

A decent amount. Schwartzman is really great.