Review the Movie You Viewed VII: We're Done, Professionally

[Lancemc]

If you thought Wolverine lost points for breaking with the franchise's established lore, wait until you see T4. As a Terminator fan, it's easily the most offensive thing about it. I mean, T3 was a travesty for many the same reasons, but this one... oye.

 

[LMP]

If you thought Wolverine lost points for breaking with the franchise's established lore, wait until you see T4. As a Terminator fan, it's easily the most offensive thing about it. I mean, T3 was a travesty for many the same reasons, but this one... oye.

And with such a simple idea for this set of films, I cannot imagine why. Here's what I think could've happened to make a great "Future War Trilogy:"

The first film shows the rise of John Connor from some regular survivor to the leader of the resistance, maybe play up some prophecy element, have some rough and tumble action scenes, and have him finding out about the whereabouts of Kyle Reese.

Second film follows the Empire mold: one storyline chronicling Connor and the war, and the other with some guy, his second-in-command, finding and bringing back Reese, since it would be too risky for him to go out and do it himself? Who knows. Lead into the development of the time portal, T-800s, etc...

The third film is almost the end of the war. Like Reese says in the first film, Skynet realizes it's about to lose, and in a last-ditch effort, decide to send the T-800 back to kill Sarah Connor, etc... Like Sith, we know how it plays out to a certain extent, but let's say there's a major game-changer, like John Connor dies in the end, secretly. The Resistance continues, since he's become an almost mythical figure at this point, and you get the sense that mankind will win out anyway? Just spitballing here.

Hell, maybe add the Worthington arc as part of the 2nd and 3rd films, which would actually carry some emotional weight since we'd actually get to see it develop over the course of a film or so? Again, this is purely me basing it off the fact that I haven't seen Salvation or anything, and have had this idea for a couple of weeks. Maybe it sucks, but hey, what fanfic doesn't?

 

[Lancemc]

Honestly, Worthington is easily the best part of the movie. Well, least awful maybe. His character could have been legitimately fascinating, but they too ruined that in nearly every manner they could afford. Conner was a non-presence in this film, despite pasting his damn face all throughout in distracting worthless scenes. And the whole "We need to save Kyle Reece" plot line is wholly idiotic. I mean why take the singular flaw of the original film, the whole Kyle Reece-John Conner paradox, and decide to make the entire plot of a new movie around the genesis of that narrative paradox. Gee, I wonder how that will play out on screed.

Really, this film should have been entirely focused on Worthington's character. Could have offered something new and exciting to the lore. I really don't think there's anything relevant to explore in the current Conner line. It's sort of the same problem with part of the SW prequel trilogy, only magnified to untold degrees.

 

[LMP]

Honestly, Worthington is easily the best part of the movie. Well, least awful maybe. His character could have been legitimately fascinating, but they too ruined that in nearly every manner they could afford. Conner was a non-presence in this film, despite pasting his damn face all throughout in distracting worthless scenes. And the whole "We need to save Kyle Reece" plot line is wholly idiotic. I mean why take the singular flaw of the original film, the whole Kyle Reece-John Conner paradox, and decide to make the entire plot of a new movie around the genesis of that narrative paradox. Gee, I wonder how that will play out on screed.

Really, this film should have been entirely focused on Worthington's character. Could have offered something new and exciting to the lore. I really don't think there's anything relevant to explore in the current Conner line. It's sort of the same problem with part of the SW prequel trilogy, only magnified to untold degrees.

Apparently the original script did focus more on Worthington's character, but Bale's insistence of more John Connor threw it out of whack. They apparently were re-writing the script while on the set, which is never a good sign.

I think that same paradox is what makes the Kyle Reese thing interesting though. It's Cameron's fault, since it's such a nifty story twist that doesn't make a lick of sense, and now that a series has been made, it has to stick around. It doesn't just work itself out, Connor has to ensure his safety for any of that reality to even exist. Throw in the screwball of Worthington's insertion into the timeline and anything could happen, which is incredibly appealing. Star Trek made that idea work, I thought, but things always get convoluted when you introduce time travel.

I feel like an idiot referring to a movie that I haven't seen, for the record.

 

[Lancemc]

Well, it really just doesn't make any sense. At least in the original film you could imagine Reese was sent back to ensure Sarah's survival in that "timeline" and that maybe the future could be saved. Obviously the timeline Reese was from was always long past that point, and I don't believe that movie ever made explicit that Reese's time would vanish or change Back-to-the-future style, but that it followed more "realistic" quantum mechanics theories ala Star Trek. Thus, under that lore, it really bothers me that saving a young Kyle Reese is such a priority. I mean hell, this is the same timeline from T1 and T2 isn't it? Sarah Conner was already saved, John Conner is alive and well blowing robots up with magical uber-rocket launchers. Who the fuck cares if Kyle Reese dies. He doesn't matter anymore.

 

[LMP]

Well, it really just doesn't make any sense. At least in the original film you could imagine Reese was sent back to ensure Sarah's survival in that "timeline" and that maybe the future could be saved. Obviously the timeline Reese was from was always long past that point, and I don't believe that movie ever made explicit that Reese's time would vanish or change Back-to-the-future style, but that it followed more "realistic" quantum mechanics theories ala Star Trek. Thus, under that lore, it really bothers me that saving a young Kyle Reese is such a priority. I mean hell, this is the same timeline from T1 and T2 isn't it? Sarah Conner was already saved, John Conner is alive and well blowing robots up with magical uber-rocket launchers. Who the fuck cares if Kyle Reese dies. He doesn't matter anymore.

If it is the same timeline from T1 and T2, then it still is crucial that he's sent back to do his deeds with Sarah and ensure that it plays out the way it's supposed to, right? The same actions have to be set in motion in order for those films to play out. Bill O'Reilly may not know what it means to have something play it out, but still, it's essential.

Reese does it live. It's way too late and the Magic won. Yes! Apparently, Salvation failed. Epically.

 

[Lancemc]

How I understood, the "other time line" is the one we see in "flash-forward" in the first film. In this timeline, John Conner is leader of the resistance, take over some Skynet time travel technology and sends back Kyle Reese, a loyal soldier of his, to protect his mother, and then sends a T-800 back to save himself. All this in hopes to protect those characters. But, in doing so that should change things, and as Cameron proposes in T2, the characters take action to change the future and possibly stop judgment day. Fate is what we make and all that jazz. Then that should have been it, end of Terminator. Good ending. Then unfortunately T3 comes around and says, "No, fuck that. Fate is unavoidable, Judgement Day happens, blargh." And so now we have T4 which has to follow that film's lead. However, if it were in keeping with Cameron's films, all those actions from the "past" have already happened, those characters were saved, and now they're movin' and groovin'. I think there are multiple timelines at work here, and unless we saw Skynet sending machines back in time in this timeline again, there's really no imperative to save Reese. His job was already done. And if he dies, and the machines send back more terminators here, why not just send back someone else to save his mother or himself.

But then it's like "Oh well Reese is the father of John Conner, so if you send anyone else back John Conner will never exist, yadda yadda." And in typing this out I'm realizing how I'm sort of wrong about all this, since if this was true why would the machines have send back anyone in the first place in the first film, so who the hells knows. In any case, this is perfect illustration of why building a whole film around this concept is a terrible fucking idea in the first place.

 

[CTU2fan]

What it all boils down to, for me, is:

1. - T2, good ending
2. - T3, crappy and ruined the T1/T2 story

As for T4, it was hard for me to get into it, all I kept thinking about was Transformers and Christian Bale losing his shit and bitching at everybody diva-style. I think I actually liked the TV show better than T4, and of course that's getting shitcanned.

You get the feeling that the time travel aspect stopped being a part of the story and started being just a tool they could use to cheat. But too much dicking around with it leaves you tangled in a web of contradicting paradoxes. I liked the idea of the time portal being near the end of the war, and the original T800 from T1 being the last shot. The T1000/T2 deal was OK, but now you get the sense that Skynet just sends back a new Terminator every day just to slow the inevitable, and that's got me thinking of Roland of Gilead at the end of the Dark Tower, and that was just depressing.

 

[Lancemc]

What it all boils down to, for me, is:

1. - T2, good ending
2. - T3, crappy and ruined the T1/T2 story

Essentially, yeah. T3 is the devil.

that's got me thinking of Roland of Gilead at the end of the Dark Tower, and that was just depressing.

 

[deep in HELL]

What it all boils down to, for me, is:

1. - T2, good ending
2. - T3, crappy and ruined the T1/T2 story

I think I actually liked the TV show better than T4, and of course that's getting shitcanned .

The Sarah Conner Cronicles was better than both T3 and T4.

 

[corianderstem]

Star Trek

That was just boatloads of fun. Well done, JJ Abrams - you made me care about Star Trek!

 

[lazarus]

Speaking of Star Trek, I found the two-disc set of ST VI: The Undiscovered Country for $5. This is supposed to be one of the good ones, right? And I don't have to see FInal Frontier first?

I'm going to have to be mighty bored even to spend $2 to see Star Teenz.

 

[LMP]

Speaking of Star Trek, I found the two-disc set of ST VI: The Undiscovered Country for $5. This is supposed to be one of the good ones, right? And I don't have to see FInal Frontier first?

I'm going to have to be mighty bored even to spend $2 to see Star Teenz.

Correct on both counts.

Final Frontier is so awful that most people don't even consider it canon. Ouch.

Lanceypants may be the only person I've seen really dislike Trek so far, then again, I haven't read deep's opinion on it.

 

[lazarus]

It just doesn't seem like something I'd enjoy. I'm a TNG guy, and really don't care about seeing what J.J. Abrams is up to.

 

[deep]

I haven't read deep's opinion on it.

Comparatively speaking, I enjoyed it more than T4 or Up.


I would not rate it a 8.5 or 9

probably a 7, maybe 7.5

My nit picks,

I did not like the scene with the kid, stealing the Vette and throwing it over a cliff. I thought it was just pandering to adolescent males, (good for the box office)

The bar scene, when he sits down next to an alien than has a simian like nose, why is he the only alien in there. I thought they were a bit chintzy with the aliens. The alien in green paint, looked like a Troma production.

The Chekhov character annoyed me, and I like that actor a lot. He was great in Huff.
These are just a few reasons why I did not rate it higher.

 

[LMP]

It just doesn't seem like something I'd enjoy. I'm a TNG guy, and really don't care about seeing what J.J. Abrams is up to.

That's fair then.

I can't believe they only managed to make 1 great, let alone good, movie with the TNG cast. Incredible.

 

[corianderstem]

I did not like the scene with the kid, stealing the Vette and throwing it over a cliff. I thought it was just pandering to adolescent males, (good for the box office)

Yeah, that was a bit eye-rolling. It was slightly neat as a scene setter - the Vette as an antique, the cop on the hoverthingie.

I did like the other scenes in Iowa where you saw all the futuristic buildings and whatnot with all the typical Iowa corn and stuff surrounding it.

I don't think I've ever seen an episode of the original series, and only saw maybe a handful of TNG episodes. Of the flicks, I've only seen IV of the original cast (goofy), Generations (yawn) and the one with the Borg, which I thought was pretty kickass.

 

[LMP]

Comparatively speaking, I enjoyed it more than T4 or Up.


I would not rate it a 8.5 or 9

probably a 7, maybe 7.5

My nit picks,

I did not like the scene with the kid, stealing the Vette and throwing it over a cliff. I thought it was just pandering to adolescent males, (good for the box office)

The bar scene, when he sits down next to an alien than has a simian like nose, why is he the only alien in there. I thought they were a bit chintzy with the aliens. The alien in green paint, looked like a Troma production.

The Chekhov character annoyed me, and I like that actor a lot. He was great in Huff.
These are just a few reasons why I did not rate it higher.

I read somewhere that the car going over the cliff is some sort of symbol regarding "new" vs. "old" Trek. Again, it's purely speculation, but it being a vintage car (from the '60s, no less) maybe adds to that? I kind of dug his BTTF Part II jacket though.

The bar scene was an obvious nod to the cantina scene from Star Wars... it was mostly miss for me until Capt. Pike showed up.

And Chekov, I can understand.

Yeah, that was a bit eye-rolling. It was slightly neat as a scene setter - the Vette as an antique, the cop on the hoverthingie.

I did like the other scenes in Iowa where you saw all the futuristic buildings and whatnot with all the typical Iowa corn and stuff surrounding it.

I don't think I've ever seen an episode of the original series, and only saw maybe a handful of TNG episodes. Of the flicks, I've only seen IV of the original cast (goofy), Generations (yawn) and the one with the Borg, which I thought was pretty kickass.

Wrath of Khan (#2) is the gold standard, as you've probably read multiple times, and The Undiscovered Country (#6) is the only other "great" movie of the bunch.

 

[corianderstem]

I think I've only seen bits and pieces of KHAAAAAAAAAAN, so maybe I'll toss it in my Netflix queue.

Quantum of Solace

Failed to hold my interest in a spectacular way. Big letdown after Casino Royale.

 

[Reggo]

Quantum of Solace

Failed to hold my interest in a spectacular way. Big letdown after Casino Royale.

I laughed through it. And the plane crash reminded me of the plane crash in Madagascar 2, so I completely checked out at that point. I have yet to discern a plot.

The Curious Case Of Benjamin Button
Too damn long.
An interesting period-piece. Cate Blanchett drove me up the wall and I saw most of the plot coming 15 minutes before it happened. Fell asleep halfway through. Taraji Henson was probably my favourite.

Frost/Nixon
Slow and too damn long again. Took forever to get to the interesting part, the actual interview, but by then I was so bored with it and couldn't understand a damn word Frank Langella was saying that I turned it off before the interview even started.

Taken
Props to making me panic about my friends going to Europe by themselves for the U2 tour, but other than that, eh. I haven't seen a movie that really captured my attention since The Dark Knight. I liked Watchmen, but only for some unintentionally funny parts due to in-jokes between me and my friends.

 

[powerhour24]

I can't believe people's dislike of Quantum of Solace, its the most stylish James Bond movie ever, has a non-stop revenge plot, a Bond-girl with some substance (how unusual) who's also drop-dead gorgeous, and brings the worldwide conspiracy and somewhat oddball elements of classic Bond back into the franchise. I had so much fun with it. But I'm risking all my cred again as I never really discuss the serious film-making I like and why here, I've just been defending lowbrow 'crap' lately hahaha.

Its not on the story-telling or character development level of CR, but its damn fun, beautiful and really works as the last act of the CR story, we've had his origin and how he wasn't what we were used to, and now we've seen him harden and shed his previous behavior setting up the Bond everyone used to know to continue on in the rest of the series (that and the physical, visceral Bond in addition to his suave, playboy sensibility is more in keeping with Ian Fleming's character than the previous franchise was)

 

[powerhour24]

Also, what we've learned from summer movies thus far is that Sam Worthington and Anton Yelchin are breaking out in a big way, Yelchin was an impressive young actor before, but I don't think more than a year ago anyone would expect him to be a mainstream success. And Worthington will owe everything to James Cameron thanks to Avatar (if it can live up to even 1% of Cameron's, and by extension the internet fanboys' hype) and his suggesting him to McG.

 

[Lancemc]

Well, to everyone's surprise, I agree with both those posts powerhour.

I thought Quantum of Solace was definitely in the upper echelon of Bond filmage. Maybe not as solid as Casino Royale, and not as successful from a storytelling perspective, but maybe surpasses it in other ways. It's visually stunning, and I enjoyed the return to a more globe-trotting adventure, even if the pace was probably a bit too frenetic for its own good. That said, all the key performers were at their best, the set-pieces (with the exception of the opening chase) were all brilliantly conceived, certainly more interesting than many of their Bourne counterparts which the film is so often unfavorably compared.

There were also a number of really effective emotional points the film executed rather well, notably the parallel in the burning hotel at the end where Bond is cradling Camille in his arms, which obviously alludes to the similar moment with Vesper in Casino Royale. So yeah, tops movie. I really want to see it for a third time some time soon now.

 

[lazarus]

Well, to everyone's surprise, I agree with both those posts powerhour.

I thought Quantum of Solace was definitely in the upper echelon of Bond filmage. Maybe not as solid as Casino Royale, and not as successful from a storytelling perspective, but maybe surpasses it in other ways. It's visually stunning, and I enjoyed the return to a more globe-trotting adventure, even if the pace was probably a bit too frenetic for its own good. That said, all the key performers were at their best, the set-pieces (with the exception of the opening chase) were all brilliantly conceived, certainly more interesting than many of their Bourne counterparts which the film is so often unfavorably compared.

There were also a number of really effective emotional points the film executed rather well, notably the parallel in the burning hotel at the end where Bond is cradling Camille in his arms, which obviously alludes to the similar moment with Vesper in Casino Royale. So yeah, tops movie. I really want to see it for a third time some time soon now.

Agreed. Don't know if I'd objectively call QOS a better film than Casino Royale, but there were some improvements and it's clearly a different animal, certainly one less anonymously-directed than your standard Bond fare.

 

[lazarus]

That's fair then.

I can't believe they only managed to make 1 great, let alone good, movie with the TNG cast. Incredible.

True. But in my opinion All Good Things... (TNG series finale) is the best thing ever released under the ST banner. They should have put that in the theatres instead of Generations, that's for sure.

 

[Lancemc]

Agreed. Don't know if I'd objectively call QOS a better film than Casino Royale, but there were some improvements and it's clearly a different animal, certainly one less anonymously-directed than your standard Bond fare.

There's also something to be said for brevity in this case. It's nice not having to sit through another overlong adventure, the likes of which the series is so often burdened with.

 

[LMP]

True. But in my opinion All Good Things... (TNG series finale) is the best thing ever released under the ST banner. They should have put that in the theatres instead of Generations, that's for sure.

Yeah, it's one of my favorite Trek episodes as well, along with "Yesterday's Enterprise," "Redemption," "Darmok," etc...

 

[lazarus]

The Walls Fell.

YouTube - Darmok and Jelad (Star Trek TNG Song)

 

[CTU2fan]

Taken
Props to making me panic about my friends going to Europe by themselves for the U2 tour, but other than that, eh. I haven't seen a movie that really captured my attention since The Dark Knight. I liked Watchmen, but only for some unintentionally funny parts due to in-jokes between me and my friends.

It kind of reminded me of Man on Fire except not as good.

True. But in my opinion All Good Things... (TNG series finale) is the best thing ever released under the ST banner. They should have put that in the theatres instead of Generations, that's for sure.

There's a fanedit (Kirkless Generations, I think by CBB) that I've heard is an improvement, though I haven't seen it.

Oh and that song has a very Bob Dylan/Trip Through Your Wires feel to it. Could it be the harmonica? And that's a great episode.

 

[LMP]

I've heard of Kirkless Generations, but in the end, it's still a glorified TNG episode, not even a great one at that.

The fact that we got no Q, Klingon Civil War?, or Dominion War-related stuff in a movie was ridiculous. Hell, a movie based off of the things from "Conspiracy" would've been fantastic... that's easily the most disturbing episode of all of Trek, in my opinion.