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Old 03-15-2009, 12:28 PM   #181
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DaveC, I am so happy for that girl to be out of that situation. You are absolutely right about Rihanna. I just hope she made the right decision for herself.

It's shocking to learn that domestic violence happens so frequently. It's a major, major problem. In fact, in my own hometown, a guy beat his ex-girlfriend to death on the street in broad light, even after the girl took out a restraining order on him. He bludgeoned her to death with a hammer on the street, IN BROAD DAYLIGHT.

Stories like this are so common unfortunately. It makes me so fucking mad. These women are mothers, sisters, cousins, friends, etc. of other people.

My heart and prayers go out to all victims of domestic violence.
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Old 03-15-2009, 12:43 PM   #182
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Another tragic domestic violence story from today:

Man kills 4 at gathering in Miami, then kills self

The guy probably was looking to kill his wife. That's my assumption.
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Old 03-15-2009, 01:06 PM   #183
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I resent that.

As a matter of fact, I dated a woman for a year who's relationship just prior to ours was a seven-year relationship where the guy would beat the hell out of her DAILY. He kicked her down flights of stairs, put out cigarettes on her arms, poked her with needles for kicks, yanked big chunks of her hair right out, you name it. He would call up his friends just to come over, so they could get drunk and wail on her. She had broken bones, and still has scars (but never on her face or hands so it wasn't obvious).

Her situation, the way she related it to me, and the discussions we had about it formed my opinions on abusive relationships. She didn't keep going back to him because he kept promising her it would be different, or because she thought she could change him. She was in grade 11 when she started dating this guy, and moved from Alberta to Ontario after high school because he took a job in Ottawa. That's where he started to abuse her. She tried a few times to get out of it, but he controlled her finances and refused to let her get a job or leave the house on her own so she couldn't look for her own place, she had no friends in the city that weren't also friends of his, her family was halfway across the country, and she didn't tell them or the cops because she was certain he'd kill her if her family or the police got involved. So, she says she stayed because the only other option she thought she had was to either kill him or live on the streets, which to her was worse because at home she at least got three meals a day and a warm bed at night (she didn't know about shelter options at the time). It all came to a head when he stabbed her in the stomach one night in a drunken rage, and she HAD to go to the hospital or she would have died, and she broke down and told the doctor everything. He called up a shelter and the police, and the guy was arrested and put in jail. She lived in the shelter for a few months, got a job, and saved up enough money to move to the city where I am before she got a loan and started a university degree, where I met her.

The point of all this is that it is not always about a "cycle of victimization", or whatever you want to call it. Some women simply do not have any other choices. Her abuser took all the options she had away from her. Those are the women I feel worst for. Rihanna has options - she has money, she has bodyguards, she has a job, she has her own house, etc. She can choose to leave any time. She could fly to Australia on a whim if she wanted to. She could tell Chris Brown to fuck off and there would be bodyguards around her that could stop him from ever coming within sight of her. But, she CHOSE, freely and of her own volition, to go back to him. By no means did she "deserve" to be hit (as some of the scum of the scum has said). After the incident I had a great deal of sympathy for her and was actively rooting for her to show how strong she can be and stand up to Chris Brown. She doesn't have to put up with it. The fact that she freely chose to go back to a man who came within inches of beating her to death (from the sounds of it) made me lose a lot of the sympathy I had for her, because of the fact that she could very easily get out of that situation. She's not trapped like my ex was, she has a choice, and she chose the path that will almost certainly lead to her being abused again. It's a shame, but what the fuck?
Sorry, I didn't mean to offend.

I think the key issue here is that we just don't know. My friend went back to her husband because she was afraid of him, and because he had a lot of control over her. Rhianna could be going through the same thing. Or she could just be making a bad decision, fully knowing what might happen, and having the options to get herself out. Who knows?

I think another issue is that a lot of people are forgetting how young Rhianna is. She's 21, and this is one of her first relationships, if not the first (sorry, I don't keep up on celebrity gossip, so I don't know who Rhianna has dated), and it's certainly her first abusive relationship. She hasn't learned yet that love doesn't hurt. Why do you think so many abusive women go back to their boyfriends, even though they have the options to get themselves out? It's not always as black and white as 'this person can leave' and 'this person cannot leave.' If you don't learn that something is inappropriate, you'll just keep on doing it.

I think we all need to cut Rhianna some slack.
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Old 03-15-2009, 06:47 PM   #184
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I only lost respect for her becuse I think her going back with him is setting a bad example to younger girls who have not started dating yet and it kind of sends message to them that it is ok for a guy to do that to a woman. This just my opinion.
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Old 03-15-2009, 07:36 PM   #185
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Rihanna has options - she has money, she has bodyguards, she has a job, she has her own house, etc. She can choose to leave any time. She could fly to Australia on a whim if she wanted to. She could tell Chris Brown to fuck off and there would be bodyguards around her that could stop him from ever coming within sight of her. But, she CHOSE, freely and of her own volition, to go back to him. By no means did she "deserve" to be hit (as some of the scum of the scum has said). After the incident I had a great deal of sympathy for her and was actively rooting for her to show how strong she can be and stand up to Chris Brown. She doesn't have to put up with it. The fact that she freely chose to go back to a man who came within inches of beating her to death (from the sounds of it) made me lose a lot of the sympathy I had for her, because of the fact that she could very easily get out of that situation. She's not trapped like my ex was, she has a choice, and she chose the path that will almost certainly lead to her being abused again. It's a shame, but what the fuck?
To assume that that's all it takes - options - is naive. You just *can't* know until you're in it and you have that mindset, how difficult it really is. It's absolutely perplexing for people on the outside, to see how obviously bad it is and how obviously better she could do than him, to understand *why* she would stay or go back, but you have to chalk it up to one of those things you may never fully understand. To not have sympathy for her simply because you don't understand is pretty unfortunate. It's a mental and emotional trap she's in. Just because she can physically walk away doesn't make it cut and dry. Obviously that's what she *needs* to do, but she may not do that right away.. or ever. It's sad and scary and frustrating, etc, but you can't just write her off as "choosing" to be victimized. In her mind, she's choosing to stay and work it out. She's going to fix him and he's going to get help and their relationship is going to be stronger than ever once they work through this She's holding tightly to that idea. Like I said, she's not dealing in reality right now. All the resources in the world aren't going to change that. Something within her is going to have to change that.

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II think another issue is that a lot of people are forgetting how young Rhianna is. She's 21, and this is one of her first relationships, if not the first (sorry, I don't keep up on celebrity gossip, so I don't know who Rhianna has dated), and it's certainly her first abusive relationship. She hasn't learned yet that love doesn't hurt. Why do you think so many abusive women go back to their boyfriends, even though they have the options to get themselves out? It's not always as black and white as 'this person can leave' and 'this person cannot leave.' If you don't learn that something is inappropriate, you'll just keep on doing it.

I think we all need to cut Rhianna some slack.
Exactly. I think many of these women haven't experienced a healthy relationship and therefor don't know any better. Abusive relationships come with a lot of drama and passion. They equate the intensity of their feelings with love.

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I only lost respect for her becuse I think her going back with him is setting a bad example to younger girls who have not started dating yet and it kind of sends message to them that it is ok for a guy to do that to a woman. This just my opinion.
I really, really wish she would just be strong and walk away and be shining example for young women, but she's not a role model, she's a young woman herself. It's parents' jobs to step in here, plain and simple. Educators too. Everyone's watching Rhianna and waiting for her to "do the right thing" so kids can somehow learn that way, but the opportunity is right there for adults to have discussions with kids about relationships and domestic violence so they can go into their own relationships with information and awareness.
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Old 03-15-2009, 07:51 PM   #186
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Kaf, why do you believe Rhianna "needs" to leave Chris Brown?
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:37 PM   #187
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Kaf, why do you believe Rhianna "needs" to leave Chris Brown?
Because their relationship is following the typical pattern of abuse. He assaults her, she leaves, doesn't take his phone calls for a while, he finally gets through, cries and promises never to do it again, promises to get help, she goes back and suddenly they're in the honeymoon phase of the relationship again, she's cut off from family and friends, and on and on it goes. I don't know what the exact statistics are on abusive men rehabilitating and abusive relationships turning healthy, but there's no way for either of them to get help or perspective on their situation if they jump straight back into it. Apparently it takes a man 3 years of therapy to get out of the abusive mindset and break that way of thinking/acting.

Do you believe she doesn't "need" to leave? If so, please explain.
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:51 PM   #188
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Because their relationship is following the typical pattern of abuse. He assaults her, she leaves, doesn't take his phone calls for a while, he finally gets through, cries and promises never to do it again, promises to get help, she goes back and suddenly they're in the honeymoon phase of the relationship again, she's cut off from family and friends, and on and on it goes. I don't know what the exact statistics are on abusive men rehabilitating and abusive relationships turning healthy, but there's no way for either of them to get help or perspective on their situation if they jump straight back into it. Apparently it takes a man 3 years of therapy to get out of the abusive mindset and break that way of thinking/acting.

Do you believe she doesn't "need" to leave? If so, please explain.
Thanks.

If she were my friend/daughter/acquaintance/mail lady, I would want to her to leave. It would be hard for me (or anyone who cares for the abused individual) to fully trust the abuser again. That being said, I don't think she "needs" to leave him. People can change.

That being said, I agree with you. The only way we change is in the context of community. We fuck ourselves when we try to do it ourselves ... and in this case he is putting her in (grave) danger by attempting to tackle these issues by themselves.
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Old 03-16-2009, 08:08 PM   #189
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Thanks.

If she were my friend/daughter/acquaintance/mail lady, I would want to her to leave. It would be hard for me (or anyone who cares for the abused individual) to fully trust the abuser again. That being said, I don't think she "needs" to leave him. People can change.

That being said, I agree with you. The only way we change is in the context of community. We fuck ourselves when we try to do it ourselves ... and in this case he is putting her in (grave) danger by attempting to tackle these issues by themselves.
People can change. Nothing will change until the cycle is broken, though. I refer to your last sentence to reiterate that. She needs to leave him so they both can get some help and to put herself out of immediate danger.
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Old 03-16-2009, 09:02 PM   #190
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I think its a shame that she feels she should give him another chance. I think once is enough. :/ Maybe he can change, and maybe she can forgive him, but if it were me I may forgive the person, but I wouldnt want to stick around to see if they had changed.
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