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Old 06-22-2015, 12:01 AM   #766
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I think I've seen just two Pixar films - Wall-E and The Incredibles. I think that's it.
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:08 AM   #767
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Pixar doesn't do much for me. Their greatest efforts still pale in comparison to even the second-tier Ghibli stuff.
Speaking of which I watched When Marnie Was There the other day and it completely destroyed me. What a beautiful fucking movie.
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:08 AM   #768
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Random Movie Talk, Louis the XIVth Edition

Well yeah, Studio Ghibli produced a superior output to Pixar, but the tone of the films are too different to compare.

At their best, Pixar work some weighty themes and emotional resonance into their films. However, I doubt they'll ever release anything akin to Grave of the Fireflies, Princess Mononoke or The Wind Rises. My Neighbour Totoro, Kiki's Delivery Service or Ponyo on the other hand...

Pixar Top 5:
Ratatouille
Wall-E
Toy Story 2
The Incredibles
Toy Story 3

Toy Story 1 and Finding Nemo are 6 and 7.

And my axe re. Up. Take out the perfect montage at the start and its Dreamworks-level. Monsters Inc never quite clicked for me, although that final shot is sublime. Hyped to see Inside Out this Friday.

John Lassetter needs to tap out if all he can contribute are Cars sequels at this point. You'd think of all people, he'd care the most for Pixar's legacy and artistic integrity.

EDIT - and yeah, Ghibli's actual animation is so much better than Pixar. Still on a comedown from Princess Kaguya.
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:21 AM   #769
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As far as Ghibli goes, more people need to talk about The Wind Rises. It went overlooked because of its relentlessly dark content. It was a shocking about face after Ponyo that spoke to adults and a lot of people couldn't get into it. But boy did it resonate with me.

And Kaguya was a real looker, agreed.
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:23 AM   #770
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I was just having a long conversation with Travis about this, so I'll try and sum it up in text as best I can, and spare you much of the rambling:

With Finding Nemo, I think Pixar hit the perfect level of amusing and touching film for kids with a heart, theme and story for the adults as well. After that point, it almost seemed like they were more interested in what they could get out of the adult audience, culminating in Up, where you have that opening scene that absolutely destroys you, followed by 80 minutes of boing sound effects and talking dogs. And I love that movie, but it's a mess. From then on, though, they seemed to thrive under the idea of making the saddest movie possible and almost seem to have lost the thread of what makes a great total film. Inside Out being called their saddest film ever basically has me terrified that they once again are just trying to make the audience cry without telling much of a story otherwise.

Plus the commercial for the movie, not the original trailer, basically looked like the exact same story as Wreck-It Ralph, which I loved but just saw, so....I'm really excited for Inside Out, but with strong trepidations.

I don't even know how you can compare Ghibli and Pixar since the audience isn't usually the same, nor is the animation style.
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:23 AM   #771
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Well yeah, Studio Ghibli produced a superior output to Pixar, but the tone of the films are too different to compare.

At their best, Pixar work some weighty themes and emotional resonance into their films. However, I doubt they'll ever release anything akin to Grave of the Fireflies, Princess Mononoke or The Wind Rises. My Neighbour Totoro, Kiki's Delivery Service or Ponyo on the other hand...
Totoro isn't one of my favorite Ghiblis, but it's pretty revered as a children's classic.

In addition to those three great ones you mentioned I'd add Spirited Away, which is in my opinion the greatest animated film ever made. It's not as "heavy" as those thematically but the creativity of the visuals is out of this world.

One of my other favorites is Nausicaä, primarily because it's the only Ghibli that feels like real sci-fi. I just love the world he created, flora and fauna-wise. Plus a great lead character.
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:27 AM   #772
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Nausicaa, The Wind Rises and Ponyo for me. Grave of the Fireflies, Mononoke, Spirited Away, too. Well they're honestly all really good.
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:28 AM   #773
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Originally Posted by bono_212;7973928

With [I
Finding Nemo[/I], I think Pixar hit the perfect level of amusing and touching film for kids with a heart, theme and story for the adults as well. After that point, it almost seemed like they were more interested in what they could get out of the adult audience, culminating in Up, where you have that opening scene that absolutely destroys you, followed by 80 minutes of boing sound effects and talking dogs. And I love that movie, but it's a mess. From then on, though, they seemed to thrive under the idea of making the saddest movie possible and almost seem to have lost the thread of what makes a great total film. Inside Out being called their saddest film ever basically has me terrified that they once again are just trying to make the audience cry without telling much of a story otherwise.

I don't even know how you can compare Ghibli and Pixar since the audience isn't usually the same, nor is the animation style.
Well, yeah. The Pixar scripts are definitely going right for the gut, but the main problem is that there isn't much room for ambiguity. Looks at how Ghibli portrays protagonists/antagonists in their films. They're far less black and white, and they're also not usually tied up in neat little bows, either.

You say the audiences aren't usually the same, but most of Pixar's films are certainly made to appeal to adults as well as children, much like Ghibli's.
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:29 AM   #774
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Nausicaa, The Wind Rises and Ponyo for me. Grave of the Fireflies, Mononoke, Spirited Away, too. Well they're honestly all really good.
Did you catch When Marnie Was There yet?

I loved it, despite a little too much exposition near the end. And I was very moved.
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:33 AM   #775
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Speaking of which I watched When Marnie Was There the other day and it completely destroyed me. What a beautiful fucking movie.
.
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:33 AM   #776
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Ponyo...it wasn't for me, let's just leave it at that. Same with Totoro.

Princess Mononoke, The Wind Rises, Spirited Away, Naussica, Grave of the Fireflies, Only Yesterday...now that's more my speed. I love those movies. They don't talk down to the viewer, they reward multiple viewings and sure, they're gorgeous.

I feel the same way about The Incredibles and Wall-E though. Classics for kids, kids at heart and miserable bastards alike.
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:34 AM   #777
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I would say maybe half of Ghibli's films are aimed at children, whereas I'd say the only Pixar film not aimed at a child was Wall-E.

Based on percentage of what I'd say is quality, compared to total output, Ghibli is easily my favorite animated film studio, it's not even close. Pixar only made two movies that I by far and away love, while there's only two Ghibli films I don't overly care for. Disney's traditionally animated films are mostly great, but there are a lot of duds.

The only other wild card, for me, is Don Bluth. If he hadn't released some of the stinkers that he did in the early 90s, he'd be my all-time favorite film animator. I actually really love Titan A.E. and I hate that it was such a flop. I hate that Bluth hasn't released anything since then, and it makes me sad to know that we're likely never going to see a Dragon's Lair movie.

But I agree with you, Laz, I also believe Spirited Away is the greatest animated film of all time. Followed closely by The Lion King and The Land Before Time. I vastly prefer traditionally animated film. There's no real comparison.
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:41 AM   #778
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The End Of Evangelion is the great film at all time... made for kids.
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:50 AM   #779
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.
Not sure how I passed right over that.

A shame the studio is on hiatus because I do believe both Miyazaki Jr. and Yonebayashi have done great work so far. I seem to be one of the few people who loved Tales From Earthsea, but From Up On Poppy Hill was definitely a step up for the former director.

And of course, Takahata hasn't announced his retirement, either.

But the bottom line is that their non-Miyazaki releases just don't make as much money, so perhaps they need to bring in outside financing.
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:51 AM   #780
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Spirited Away is a champ. It's almost too easy in a Godfather / Citizen Kane way to anoint as the best animated film ever, but it deserves the honour in my opinion.

I didn't mention it earlier because I feel Pixar has had success creating unique worlds (see Toy Story, Monsters Inc.) and while they haven't reached the heights of Spirited Away the ambition was there.

And while plenty of adults enjoy and even love Pixar films, they're still aimed for kids first and foremost. Note that the Cars films have the lowest critical / adult response, because they're kinda dumb and uninspiring. Also the backlash to Up's retarded talking dog fighter pilots. Whilst not exclusively, Ghibli made mature films along with more family friendly fare.

Pixar definitely have greatness in them, as the awesome run from Ratatouille - Wall-E - Up montage shows. If they didn't have $200m budgets that needed recouping, it would be great to see them aim for a true artistic statement, box office be damned.
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