lazarus
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Haven't heard that, why?
Random Movie Talk, Louis the XIVth Edition
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bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
There's a design on the chalkboard in their house shown a few times in the first third with the same circle with a diamond grid inside it and it has numbers written in the squares instead of letters.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Hmm. The pattern could be some French cultural thing that is also known in Montreal.
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
Yeah, I'm wondering if it was some math thing, or something. I don't know where to even look to find out.
LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
Well that was intriguing as fuck. I need to see it again before I make any judgments because there are countless minute details here that add to the themes of the film in significant ways. Sometimes you can just watch a film once and get everything out of it that you need to, but not with Celine and Julie. It was like Thomas Pynchon wrote his own version of Alice In Wonderland and it was adapted into a French new wave film.
For now: I liked it.
For now: I liked it.
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bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
I jokingly referred to it as the French Last Action Hero, but then I started reading more interpretations and explanations of what happened and I was like, "oh, that's kinda exactly what it is". But obviously loads deeper, and better (I still love you LAH.)
Anyways, I thought it was superb. I liked the first half, I loved the second half. And I barely noticed how long it was.
As Travis said, there were certainly things I didn't understand, and little bits and pieces I missed, but as a whole, my gut reaction is that I absolutely loved this. And just reading about some of what was behind it has already brought it up even higher in my estimation, after all of 20 minutes. Can't imagine how I'd feel after seeing it again.
Laz, if you ever hear about it being screened somewhere, please let me know. I'd love to go.
For now, I'll have to content myself with either leaving my computer set to Region 2 and importing a DVD, or hoping that Criterion eventually get their hands on it.
This isn't the review thread, so I get to avoid giving a score. Yay!
Oh, and I loved the wordplay, and bravo to whoever did the subtitles for doing their best to make it work for English speakers. My only wish is that it would have been possible to have translated the title in some way that made sense. Or at least I wish I'd looked up what the title meant first. That was a great little joke.
Oh, and Oh once more, as fun as the film was, it did contain one of the most startling shots I've ever seen in my life:
Anyways, I thought it was superb. I liked the first half, I loved the second half. And I barely noticed how long it was.
As Travis said, there were certainly things I didn't understand, and little bits and pieces I missed, but as a whole, my gut reaction is that I absolutely loved this. And just reading about some of what was behind it has already brought it up even higher in my estimation, after all of 20 minutes. Can't imagine how I'd feel after seeing it again.
Laz, if you ever hear about it being screened somewhere, please let me know. I'd love to go.
For now, I'll have to content myself with either leaving my computer set to Region 2 and importing a DVD, or hoping that Criterion eventually get their hands on it.
This isn't the review thread, so I get to avoid giving a score. Yay!
Oh, and I loved the wordplay, and bravo to whoever did the subtitles for doing their best to make it work for English speakers. My only wish is that it would have been possible to have translated the title in some way that made sense. Or at least I wish I'd looked up what the title meant first. That was a great little joke.
Oh, and Oh once more, as fun as the film was, it did contain one of the most startling shots I've ever seen in my life:
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Glad you guys had a good time with it. I may have written about my experience with the film back in the day, not sure if I could find it here without some legwork.
At any rate, I was working/living in Brooklyn for a month back in 2008 and I was attempting to see the anime The Girl Who Leapt Through Time. Unfortunately I got the showtime wrong/missed a train and arrived at the theatre too late. So I cracked open the Village Voice and looked for something else to see, and Céline and Julie Go Boating caught my eye. I had heard of the title, had heard of Rivette, but knew virtually nothing about either. So I went in pretty blind, and had what is possibly the most transformative viewing of my life.
Sadly, much of Rivette's output, particularly his key early works, are not available in the U.S. on DVD. I already owned a region-free player so quickly ordered imports from Amazon UK, including C&JGB and his debut feature Paris Belongs To Us. But there are many titles that aren't available in any English-speaking countries, so I had to scour the internet for downloadable files with subtitles. It's become easier in recent years, but much is still not available.
His magnum opus Out 1, available in a 13-hour or 4-hour version, appeared on German DVD last year, and a Blu-ray has been announced in the UK if I'm not mistaken. Carlotta Films is supposedly releasing it on Region 1 this year, and Kino put out Rivette's Pont du Nord on Blu-ray and DVD on Region 1 in April (I highly recommend seeking this one out as it has much in common with C&JGB).
Anyway, there's a lot of great reading online and it's pretty easy to get sucked into the rabbit hole. There's a great website that has a lot of articles about and by Rivette archived, and with this link you can just scroll down his filmography to C&JGB and click on any article. Some of it is pretty highbrow stuff but there's also good interview material where you can get information straight from the source (Rivette as well as the actors):
jacques-rivette.com: Filmography
At any rate, I was working/living in Brooklyn for a month back in 2008 and I was attempting to see the anime The Girl Who Leapt Through Time. Unfortunately I got the showtime wrong/missed a train and arrived at the theatre too late. So I cracked open the Village Voice and looked for something else to see, and Céline and Julie Go Boating caught my eye. I had heard of the title, had heard of Rivette, but knew virtually nothing about either. So I went in pretty blind, and had what is possibly the most transformative viewing of my life.
Sadly, much of Rivette's output, particularly his key early works, are not available in the U.S. on DVD. I already owned a region-free player so quickly ordered imports from Amazon UK, including C&JGB and his debut feature Paris Belongs To Us. But there are many titles that aren't available in any English-speaking countries, so I had to scour the internet for downloadable files with subtitles. It's become easier in recent years, but much is still not available.
His magnum opus Out 1, available in a 13-hour or 4-hour version, appeared on German DVD last year, and a Blu-ray has been announced in the UK if I'm not mistaken. Carlotta Films is supposedly releasing it on Region 1 this year, and Kino put out Rivette's Pont du Nord on Blu-ray and DVD on Region 1 in April (I highly recommend seeking this one out as it has much in common with C&JGB).
Anyway, there's a lot of great reading online and it's pretty easy to get sucked into the rabbit hole. There's a great website that has a lot of articles about and by Rivette archived, and with this link you can just scroll down his filmography to C&JGB and click on any article. Some of it is pretty highbrow stuff but there's also good interview material where you can get information straight from the source (Rivette as well as the actors):
jacques-rivette.com: Filmography
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
I absolutely do not mind "highbrow" readings on film. So, thank you for the link. I'll check some of that out later.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Coincidentally, I just found out that Cinefamily is showing Duelle, an extremely rare Rivette this Sunday, and also happens to be my second favorite after C&JGB. It's not available on DVD anywhere with English subtitles, so I've only seen a downloaded version.
It's about a goddess of the moon and goddess of the sun coming down to Earth to battle over some powerful crystal. Lot of homages to classic film noir. The visuals are probably the best out of any Rivette film.
Christmas in July, indeed.
La Collectionneuse | The Cinefamily
It's about a goddess of the moon and goddess of the sun coming down to Earth to battle over some powerful crystal. Lot of homages to classic film noir. The visuals are probably the best out of any Rivette film.
Christmas in July, indeed.
La Collectionneuse | The Cinefamily
No spoken words
Blue Crack Supplier
I aint never seen nothing by no Rivette.
I guess I should change that one day.
I guess I should change that one day.
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
If I lived closer, I'd invest in that Cinefamily membership, but there's no convenient way for me to get there regularly.
Regardless, I might go to that, I was thinking of going to Anime Expo but this is a way better use of my money. Is there parking there?
Regardless, I might go to that, I was thinking of going to Anime Expo but this is a way better use of my money. Is there parking there?
Lancemc
Blue Crack Addict
Duelle is pretty rad
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Not that I live super far away, but it's partly the reason I haven't bought monthly memberships as well.
The handful of times I've been there I've been able to find residential street parking within walking distance. Most of the people in that area have houses so the streets aren't filled with apartment building tenants' cars.
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
Alright. Sounds good to me. I haven't gone to a single movie screening since I moved out here, besides seeing one Ozu film over at CSUN (which was a lot of fun, to be fair).
monkeyskin
Refugee
So going back to Pixar for a moment, and specifically the works of Pete Doctor (Monsters Inc., Up and Inside Out), I've realized that the problem that keeps these films from the Pixar Pantheon is their flawed second acts. They all have great introductions to imaginative worlds and hit all the right emotional beats at the end, but their middles are all so listless. Lots of fun moments and entertaining throughout, but slight.
I forget which films disc it was, but one of the Pixar special features explained the screenwriting process beginning with 25% act 1, 25% act 3 and then a whole bunch of stuff in the middle 50%. Simplified for the kids, obviously, but very telling. You can't just have 'stuff happens' as a plotting tool, but that's what these 3 films in particular seem to suffer from.
To his credit, Doctor does focus on the development of his protagonists so the endings land as hard as they do. But other than that, they just spend the bulk of the film walking from point A to point B with very little urgency. Sully basically just spends 1 day taking Boo back to her door, the guys in Up wander through the jungle and Joy and Sadness walk back to HQ. Stuff goes on around and hinders them, but not much else.
Compare that to Marlin's 4-5 self contained adventures whilst Nemo hatches his own escape plan, Remy's rise through the kitchen and identity issues or Mr Incredible's moonlighting, capture and escape. Doctor has stories which service his protagonists development, rather than letting them drive the story. He fills them with great idea after great idea, but most are merely touched upon than explored to their potential.
tl;dr perhaps, but after rewatching a few Pixars at home in anticipation of Inside Out its been on my mind. The blu Ray presentations are stellar btw.
And to perhaps push a different discussion, how important is a well crafted screenplay to us when critiquing and enjoying movies? I'm not just thinking of quotable dialogue and twists, but engagingly plotted and couldn't imagine it any other way narratives, like Chinatown, Jaws, Raiders, Die Hard or The Apartment. Film is a visual medium, but I'd value a good story well told as opposed to a well rendered dinosaur doing cool shit.
I forget which films disc it was, but one of the Pixar special features explained the screenwriting process beginning with 25% act 1, 25% act 3 and then a whole bunch of stuff in the middle 50%. Simplified for the kids, obviously, but very telling. You can't just have 'stuff happens' as a plotting tool, but that's what these 3 films in particular seem to suffer from.
To his credit, Doctor does focus on the development of his protagonists so the endings land as hard as they do. But other than that, they just spend the bulk of the film walking from point A to point B with very little urgency. Sully basically just spends 1 day taking Boo back to her door, the guys in Up wander through the jungle and Joy and Sadness walk back to HQ. Stuff goes on around and hinders them, but not much else.
Compare that to Marlin's 4-5 self contained adventures whilst Nemo hatches his own escape plan, Remy's rise through the kitchen and identity issues or Mr Incredible's moonlighting, capture and escape. Doctor has stories which service his protagonists development, rather than letting them drive the story. He fills them with great idea after great idea, but most are merely touched upon than explored to their potential.
tl;dr perhaps, but after rewatching a few Pixars at home in anticipation of Inside Out its been on my mind. The blu Ray presentations are stellar btw.
And to perhaps push a different discussion, how important is a well crafted screenplay to us when critiquing and enjoying movies? I'm not just thinking of quotable dialogue and twists, but engagingly plotted and couldn't imagine it any other way narratives, like Chinatown, Jaws, Raiders, Die Hard or The Apartment. Film is a visual medium, but I'd value a good story well told as opposed to a well rendered dinosaur doing cool shit.
Lancemc
Blue Crack Addict
re scripting... it's a film by film basis really. Obviously it's always important, but going back to my Fury Road discussion earlier for example, poor or on-nose dialog isn't a negative really, but the scripting also applies to the film's exquisite structure and so on and that's the main take-away. Versus say, a Lubitsch or Wilder film or something where the dialog is more crucial than the structure.
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
Alright, I went to this movie. once again panicking about where I parked, but what else is new?
Lancemc
Blue Crack Addict
John Frankenheimer's The Train is maybe one of the best films I've ever seen.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
You went to Duelle? Thoughts?
Shame they couldn't get an actual print; I talked to the girl who programmed the thing afterwards and she said the French Film and TV office that was supposed to hook it up told her it was lost in the mail or something. WTF? So even though they showed it digitally, still nice to see it on the big screen and with an audience.
I'm looking forward to going to this series every month now.
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
Well, first and foremost, I know you all want to know that my car was, once again, fine, I've gotta stop freaking out about parking meters.
Anyways, I enjoyed the film very much, but I don't know if I was just uncomfortable in my seat (the gentlemen in front of me was *just* tall enough that the top of his head was blocking the subtitles, so I had to keep shifting around), or if I just legitimately felt this way, but despite being an hour shorter than C&J, I felt like this movie was much slower. I loved the noir look and feel, I really liked the humor in the beginning, and I wish it had lasted through the whole film. There were a lot of characters to love and the story felt really unique. It looked so different from C&J, too, which really surprised me. Cinematography was my favorite part of the film, but I also did enjoy the back and forth of who was good, who was bad, etc. Again, nice noir influence there.
Also, I loved the tea party scene. Low key, Rivette's favorite book/movie is clearly Alice in Wonderland.
As for the theater itself, I'm not sure how I feel. I'm glad you mentioned there was a foul up with the print, because when I saw that DVD player Play button logo I was pissed. $12 to watch a DVD? And the sound quality was atrocious. I love watching movies with other people, and I realize it's LA so prices are going to be higher, but I just kinda expected more. But, now that I know this wasn't the normal situation, I'll gladly give it another try.
Anyways, I enjoyed the film very much, but I don't know if I was just uncomfortable in my seat (the gentlemen in front of me was *just* tall enough that the top of his head was blocking the subtitles, so I had to keep shifting around), or if I just legitimately felt this way, but despite being an hour shorter than C&J, I felt like this movie was much slower. I loved the noir look and feel, I really liked the humor in the beginning, and I wish it had lasted through the whole film. There were a lot of characters to love and the story felt really unique. It looked so different from C&J, too, which really surprised me. Cinematography was my favorite part of the film, but I also did enjoy the back and forth of who was good, who was bad, etc. Again, nice noir influence there.
Also, I loved the tea party scene. Low key, Rivette's favorite book/movie is clearly Alice in Wonderland.
As for the theater itself, I'm not sure how I feel. I'm glad you mentioned there was a foul up with the print, because when I saw that DVD player Play button logo I was pissed. $12 to watch a DVD? And the sound quality was atrocious. I love watching movies with other people, and I realize it's LA so prices are going to be higher, but I just kinda expected more. But, now that I know this wasn't the normal situation, I'll gladly give it another try.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Yeah, the programmed seemed genuinely bummed that she couldn't get the print. But she said she wanted to show the film so bad, and since it's a rarity anyway I can see the reasoning behind just showing it regardless.
You're right on about the cinematography--imagine how good this would have looked on 35mm. Hopefully one day there will be a nice Blu-ray to watch.
The structure is what I find most interesting. Basically every scene is with two people, which builds toward that scene at the halfway point where every character is at that same nightclub. And after the brief showdown between the two goddesses (such amazing visuals), it goes back to two-person scenes for the rest of the film.
This one is definitely worth reading about on that Rivette website I mentioned before. His whole plan for the 4-film series was really interesting, and it's a shame he was only able to complete two of them. W/r/t the acting (which is heavily stylized), I love these instructions for how he wanted his players to move on camera:
Then, during shooting, each "unit" (each block-sequence) will be subjected to a method designed to break down not only conventional dramatic techniques but also the more recent conventions of improvisation with all the prolixities and cliches it entails (hesitations, provocations, etc.), and to establish an ecriture based on actions, movements, attitudes, the actor's 'gestural', in other words. The ambition of these films is to discover a new approach to acting in the cinema, where speech, reduced to essential phrases, to precise formulas, would play a role of 'poetic' punctuation. Not a return to the silent cinema, neither pantomime nor choreography: something else, where the movement of bodies, their counterpoint, their inscription within the screen space, would be the basis of the mise en scene.
Plus you have that on-screen piano player appearing in all those random scenes, which was a brilliant, winking move by Rivette. What also impresses me is how Juliet Berto went from playing her very talkative, loose role as Céline right to this very controlled performance in the next film.
Anyway, whole article here:
jacques-rivette.com: For the shooting of Les Filles du Feu
There are more about the film but that's the best primer.
You're right on about the cinematography--imagine how good this would have looked on 35mm. Hopefully one day there will be a nice Blu-ray to watch.
The structure is what I find most interesting. Basically every scene is with two people, which builds toward that scene at the halfway point where every character is at that same nightclub. And after the brief showdown between the two goddesses (such amazing visuals), it goes back to two-person scenes for the rest of the film.
This one is definitely worth reading about on that Rivette website I mentioned before. His whole plan for the 4-film series was really interesting, and it's a shame he was only able to complete two of them. W/r/t the acting (which is heavily stylized), I love these instructions for how he wanted his players to move on camera:
Then, during shooting, each "unit" (each block-sequence) will be subjected to a method designed to break down not only conventional dramatic techniques but also the more recent conventions of improvisation with all the prolixities and cliches it entails (hesitations, provocations, etc.), and to establish an ecriture based on actions, movements, attitudes, the actor's 'gestural', in other words. The ambition of these films is to discover a new approach to acting in the cinema, where speech, reduced to essential phrases, to precise formulas, would play a role of 'poetic' punctuation. Not a return to the silent cinema, neither pantomime nor choreography: something else, where the movement of bodies, their counterpoint, their inscription within the screen space, would be the basis of the mise en scene.
Plus you have that on-screen piano player appearing in all those random scenes, which was a brilliant, winking move by Rivette. What also impresses me is how Juliet Berto went from playing her very talkative, loose role as Céline right to this very controlled performance in the next film.
Anyway, whole article here:
jacques-rivette.com: For the shooting of Les Filles du Feu
There are more about the film but that's the best primer.
bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
Cool, thanks, I will check out some of those articles. I hadn't had a chance to follow up on any of that last week, but I will definitely at some point this week. Maybe tomorrow.
I completely missed that that was Céline. That character was brilliant, too.
And I'm glad to know there was some purposeful attempt at a call towards silent film, because there were some moments where I thought to myself that the acting reminded me a lot of that. Sometimes I can be on target, lol.
I completely missed that that was Céline. That character was brilliant, too.
And I'm glad to know there was some purposeful attempt at a call towards silent film, because there were some moments where I thought to myself that the acting reminded me a lot of that. Sometimes I can be on target, lol.
Lancemc
Blue Crack Addict
Favorite movies of the decade (2010-) [because boredom]
Another Year (Leigh, 2010)
Blackhat (Mann, 2015)
Certified Copy (Kiarostami, 2010)
Cosmopolis (Cronenberg, 2012)
The Day He Arrives (Hong, 2011)
Don't Go Breaking My Heart (To, 2011)
The Grand Budapest Hotel (Anderson, 2014)
The Grandmaster (Wong, 2013)
The Homesman (Jones, 2014)
Inside Llewyn Davis (Coen, 2013)
Insidious: Chapter 1 & Chapter 2 (Wan, 2010/2013)
Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012)
Mad Max: Fury Road (Miller, 2015)
Melancholia (von Trier, 2011)
Shutter Island (Scorsese, 2010)
The Skin I Live In (Almodovar, 2011)
Star Trek: Into Darkness (Abrams, 2013)
Uncle Boonmee Who Can Recall His Past Lives (Weerasethakul, 2010)
The World's End (Wright, 2013)
You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet (Resnais, 2012)
Another Year (Leigh, 2010)
Blackhat (Mann, 2015)
Certified Copy (Kiarostami, 2010)
Cosmopolis (Cronenberg, 2012)
The Day He Arrives (Hong, 2011)
Don't Go Breaking My Heart (To, 2011)
The Grand Budapest Hotel (Anderson, 2014)
The Grandmaster (Wong, 2013)
The Homesman (Jones, 2014)
Inside Llewyn Davis (Coen, 2013)
Insidious: Chapter 1 & Chapter 2 (Wan, 2010/2013)
Like Someone in Love (Kiarostami, 2012)
Mad Max: Fury Road (Miller, 2015)
Melancholia (von Trier, 2011)
Shutter Island (Scorsese, 2010)
The Skin I Live In (Almodovar, 2011)
Star Trek: Into Darkness (Abrams, 2013)
Uncle Boonmee Who Can Recall His Past Lives (Weerasethakul, 2010)
The World's End (Wright, 2013)
You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet (Resnais, 2012)
the tourist
Blue Crack Addict
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I'm glad to see some Into Darkness love. It seems so many people hate it. Also, the first two Insidious' (Insidii?) are two of my favorite in the horror genre and some of my favorites in general. Unfortunately, I rarely get to watch them because my wife is a scaredy cat.
deep
Blue Crack Addict
Lancemc
Blue Crack Addict
nah
LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
No way
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Gone Baby Gone was great.
djerdap
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
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And Ben Affleck wasn't in it. Very important.
Lancemc
Blue Crack Addict
then he made two terrible movies since
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