R.I.P. Michael Jackson

[U2BROTHR]

This was written by a friend on another board.

i think that the media attention and public interest surrounding mj's death is largely self reflexive. every generation has a defining moment where they're confronted with their own mortality by the death of a notable celebrity. my mom still remembers where she was when jfk was assassinated, substitute valentino, elvis, marilyn, kurt cobain, janis joplin, or whoever you see fit, and you can gauge the impact a sleb's death has by those most affected by it. the only difference is we're in a much more media saturated society now then ever before and information can be conveyed instantaneously in real time.

when people remember michael jackson it's not as he was recently but as he was in his heyday, and i suspect those most affected by his death are experiencing a loss of something intangible and indefinable in themselves; the loss of an element of their youth. it's as if his death is reminder of how long ago that he was an international phenomenon and how much simpler and happier things seemed to be then. it is as much a mourning of one's own youth as it is the 'loss' of michael jackson.

I woke up this morning and realized...I'm fuckin' old

 

[joerags]

I am no big fan of Al Sharpton, but he had the best speech and the best line, "There was nothing strange about your Daddy. What was strange was what your Daddy had to deal with."

 

[gvox]

Just wondering if anyone here has ever been the victim of an allegation before? I have...but that's another story. Let's just say that it almost ruined me to the very core....and I was innocent but treated like a guilty person.
.
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He didn't stay hot right up to his final days....but he set some industry standards that you can't deny.

The fact that you stayed strong through it and kept your resolve to keep doing what you love ie working with kids is amazing and inspires me to no end. I bet the kids are happy also!

MJ set some industry standards that were pretty much impossible for even himself to live up to/top. I see someone who gave us 20+ years of solid stuff and then decided after he made all his fame and money, to write songs that expressed his desire to 'heal the world' and also reveal more about himself. For people who wanted nothing but dance hits, this could be less satisfying perhaps but I think many artists as they get older reach a point where they want to start writing/singing about things that are very important to them. That's what I feel the direction of his music took. It might have been sappy but I feel it was honest, and it was his, if nothing else.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts man. It didn't sound like you were so great yesterday. It sounds weird but the memorial was a type of closure for us I hope you were able to find that also.

 

[gvox]

those most affected by his death are experiencing a loss of something intangible and indefinable in themselves; the loss of an element of their youth. it's as if his death is reminder of how long ago that he was an international phenomenon and how much simpler and happier things seemed to be then. it is as much a mourning of one's own youth as it is the 'loss' of michael jackson.[/I]

It's true - he was an inextricable part of our childhood, there's no getting around it. When something like that goes, you can't help but feel a loss. Like something that I never dreamed would be gone. My wife asked me an interesting question though and that was: did you ever imagine MJ getting old? Or what he would look like? And to be honest, I never did. I still can't. He would always be that cool as fuck Thriller album cover shot in my mind.

 

[Abycka]

I only saw it from the guy playing Human Nature, and wow I thought he was really good, it sounded lovely.

then I enjoyed Jermaine singing Smile.

I think my prob was I was part-detached in watching it. it was sad yes, but I found myself feeling all sort of at moments like Jacksons son chewing gum in a chilled-out manner. it looked so...disrespectful to me, or somethin. oh dont have a go at me! Im not in a good frame of mind at mo and at times found it sad like when the brothers spoke, but at times found it strange, like it should have happened month away - like a big Celebration Memorial with fans there, etc, after he was buried.



to everyone here.

I am in no way having a go at you but my perspective is different. I didn't expect the kids to be there at all, to me that would be the easiest way out for the Jackson family, meaning they also did not know like you said how the kids would react at such a public memorial. I think the kids being there really made it real for me about the death also his coffin, the fam said they were not going to bring coffin there. I really applaud them for them to bring it there. If I am going to watch a funeral I want to see everything.

About the son chewing gum I think he was just nervous, when Usher came up to all the fam Usher tried to look at him but the kid barely made eye contact and Usher moved on, I don't think it was out of disrespect but MJ gave the kids gum whenever they wanted and the kid was nervous at the event. Remember this is the first time these kids have been shown to a mass media. i.e the face masks etc. so don't think the boy was being disrespectful in anyway.

About the brothers speaking, the only one I cared about was Marlon, he was apparently Michaels favorite bro and the one that Joe beat the crap out of the most. I cried listening to him talk and about his twin brother that died.

I am not trying to be a know it all because I am not, I am just a person with a different perspective of what I saw on tv just like you Mad1 so don't take anything wrong.

 

[RedRocksU2]

I looked for that John Mayer version of Human Nature on iTunes last night and found other performances, but it was not there.

 

[Jive Turkey]

did you ever imagine MJ getting old? Or what he would look like?

It was really weird, but I was thinking that just a few weeks before he died. Even though he looked strange with all the surgeries, he seemed timeless. I was curious to when we'd start to see some wrinkes, etc. But I really couldnt picture it. And I just assumed that the chances of us seeing what he would look like as an old man would probably be pretty good. I certainly didnt expect to see him go at such a young age.

 

[U2isthebest]

I just randomly thought of something I saw on Today last week. It was an interview with a woman, whose name I'm blanking on, that was one of Barry Gordy's secretaries and later an executive at Motown. She was the one who first saw the Jackson 5 and brought them to Barry, and she was saying in the interview that right after the boys were signed, she gave them all a questionnaire to fill out; trying to get a feel of their personalities/interests and whatnot. One of the questions was, "What's something you want to do when you grow up?" 11 year old Michael wrote "Adopt 20 kids from all different races from all over the world." Hearing something like that just makes me all the angrier when I think of what he had to go through because of his love for children. Clearly, that was something that was in him at an early age. I believe it was God-given. I'm so glad he was able to have kids of his own. His greatest legacy will be them.

 

[RedRocksU2]

Actually, it was Gladys Knight that called Barry Gordy to come and see these kids perform.

 

[mad1]

you ask if we imagine Jackson getting old.

unfort, if it was to be, I reckon he would just always be gettin surgery we would never see but little difference.

actually its tough. he was always lean. his face, surgery. to try and imagine him at say 80 years old. I have no idea now.

 

[Abycka]

This was written by a friend on another board.

i think that the media attention and public interest surrounding mj's death is largely self reflexive. every generation has a defining moment where they're confronted with their own mortality by the death of a notable celebrity. my mom still remembers where she was when jfk was assassinated, substitute valentino, elvis, marilyn, kurt cobain, janis joplin, or whoever you see fit, and you can gauge the impact a sleb's death has by those most affected by it. the only difference is we're in a much more media saturated society now then ever before and information can be conveyed instantaneously in real time.

when people remember michael jackson it's not as he was recently but as he was in his heyday, and i suspect those most affected by his death are experiencing a loss of something intangible and indefinable in themselves; the loss of an element of their youth. it's as if his death is reminder of how long ago that he was an international phenomenon and how much simpler and happier things seemed to be then. it is as much a mourning of one's own youth as it is the 'loss' of michael jackson.

I woke up this morning and realized...I'm fuckin' old

Your not fuck'in old cause if your old then i'm older and that sucks.

I don't know, I am going to have to disagree with whoever wrote that article you italisized. The media was infatuated over the past 19 years over what they called Wacko Jacko, a weird person. I never once saw a positive interview on tv with MJ since maybe 1990.

The media thrived on tearing him down. Although they are jumpin on the MJ bandwagon right now and of course they will start attacking him pretty soon again it's just their nature. The reason they do this is because no one truly know's MJ's personal life, only what they see him doing on tv. For example I saw a video yesterday for the first time where MJ was talking to Prince 1 at his younger birthday and MJ was talking with a low voice like he had in the early 80's late 70's. I have heard rumours about this where he fakes his high pitched voice to the public (for whatever reason) usually he talks low pitched I heard when he is with people he knows personally and especially when he is talking to his business managers about buying/selling stuff. But you can now see this vid probably on youtube and pay close attention notice his voice is a much lower voice. My point is nobody really knows the personal life of this guy only what they see on tv and the last 19 years everything has been negative when in fact there has been lots of positivity that is now being shown on tv, interviews, kids birthdays etc on tv.

The biggest reason I disagree with whoever wrote that article is that for example I was never around when Jimi Hendrix was alive, I only started listening after maybe 15 years after his death but I feel such a sadness over his death that is unexplainable to me, he was not part of my generation is what I mean. With MJ I am sad because of how the mass media ignored him his music, lyrics and anything positive in 1990's forward when to me he created some of his best lyrics and music.

I think after his death people are starting to be able to look and listen to his music from 90's forward and realising it wasn't just Thriller that made this guy a phenomenom. And things like he was a good father etc. stuff the media didn't show us for so long.

 

[mad1]

usher singing Gone Too Soon and then clearly upset at the end.

 

[Abycka]

usher singing Gone Too Soon and then clearly upset at the end.

Made me cry And he went to the coffin, MJ was his biggest idol. For me the best vocal of the memorial. I'm gonna hire Usher for my funeral.

 

[mad1]

it was tough watching him break for a moment. I thought he wouldnt be able to finish song.

I love that song, its beautiful because of Michael's voice.

 

[RedRocksU2]

I looked for that John Mayer version of Human Nature on iTunes last night and found other performances, but it was not there.

Got it, thanks!

 

[AnnRKeyintheUSA]

Has anyone posted the autopsy story yet? They said his whole body was as white, not like a white person but like a tee shirt, he was totally bald, had track marks on his arms, some old, some new, his ribs were broken (by the CPR), he had needle marks all around his heart and joints, and he was 'emaciated.' They also said he'd had at least 13 plastic surgeries on his face. It sounds like he was in terrible health for awhile

 

[U2isthebest]

Has anyone posted the autopsy story yet? They said his whole body was as white, not like a white person but like a tee shirt, he was totally bald, had track marks on his arms, some old, some new, his ribs were broken (by the CPR), he had needle marks all around his heart and joints, and he was 'emaciated.' They also said he'd had at least 13 plastic surgeries on his face. It sounds like he was in terrible health for awhile

The L.A. Coroner issued a statement the day that story came out (It was originally published in the U.K. Sun Tabloid, which proves how "accurate" it was ). A lot of major media ran with it because they apparently forgot how to fact check, but the Coroner said the information was completely false.

 

[BAW]

The L.A. Coroner issued a statement the day that story came out (It was originally published in the U.K. Sun Tabloid, which proves how "accurate" it was ). A lot of major media ran with it because they apparently forgot how to fact check, but the Coroner said the information was completely false.

Yup. The same source as the Debbie Rowe interview that claimed she bred the children the same way she breeds her horses. The media ran with it despite the fact that it came from a tabloid that has a habit of publishing questionable stories.

 

[U2isthebest]

Yup. The same source as the Debbie Rowe interview that claimed she bred the children the same way she breeds her horses. The media ran with it despite the fact that it came from a tabloid that has a habit of publishing questionable stories.

Did they really say that? I'd heard at first that Debbie originally said she didn't want the children, but she's now apparently changed her mind or is at least thinking about it. I really hope she doesn't get them. They're clearly close to their grandma and many of their aunts/uncles. I understand that Debbie, per the courts order wasn't allowed to see the children, but she made that choice. She said in court as recently as 3 years ago that the children were gifts to Michael, and she doesn't view them as hers. If she plans on going after custody, I think the real reason would be pretty obvious. They are her children, so I don't doubt that she loves them, but I think best way for her to show that would be to allow the children to live and be raised by the person(s) Michael wanted to raise them and the people they know the best. Supposedly Grace (their nanny) was at the reception after the funeral, so that would be great if she's still in their lives as well.

 

[BAW]

Did they really say that? I'd heard at first that Debbie originally said she didn't want the children, but she's now apparently changed her mind or is at least thinking about it. I really hope she doesn't get them. They're clearly close to their grandma and many of their aunts/uncles. I understand that Debbie, per the courts order wasn't allowed to see the children, but she made that choice. She said in court as recently as 3 years ago that the children were gifts to Michael, and she doesn't view them as hers. If she plans on going after custody, I think the real reason would be pretty obvious. They are her children, so I don't doubt that she loves them, but I think best way for her to show that would be to allow the children to live and be raised by the person(s) Michael wanted to raise them and the people they know the best. Supposedly Grace (their nanny) was at the reception after the funeral, so that would be great if she's still in their lives as well.

Debbie (who lives on a farm surrounded by animals) said, ""I was just the vessel. It wasn't Michael's sperm. Just like I stick the sperm up my horse, this is what they did to me. I was his thoroughbred."....

Once her lawyer came out and said she never gave an interview, the story was taken down but it was a little late and had already been repeated as fact by the media and celebrity bloggers.

And I totally agree with you that she shouldn't get custody of the kids. First off, they would be separated from their younger brother, which would be so traumatic for all of them. They should be kept together with people who they are familiar with and who love them, not someone who is pretty much a stranger to them. The best thing she could ever do for them is let them go.

 

[U2isthebest]

Once her lawyer came out and said she never gave an interview, the story was taken down but it was a little late and had already been repeated as fact by the media and celebrity bloggers.

And I totally agree with you that she shouldn't get custody of the kids. First off, they would be separated from their younger brother, which would be so traumatic for all of them. They should be kept together with people who they are familiar with and who love them, not someone who is pretty much a stranger to them. The best thing she could ever do for them is let them go.

Wow. I can't believe any legitimate news source would actually report something like that. It's obviously false. As for the custody situation, Debbie supposedly told some reporters that she'd be willing to adopt or take custody of Blanket too, so he could stay with Prince and Paris, but then again, later the same day, her lawyer said she wasn't sure if she was even going to go after custody in the first place. I don't want to say that she's solely money hungry, but she tried to give up her parental rights twice. Now, maybe that was an agreement she had with Michael and maybe that's what he wanted her to do, but she is the biological mother and she has rights. If she didn't ever want to truly give up her custody and rights, she shouldn't have done so in the first place. It's obvious the kids are very close to Katherine and they look to be the same with Janet and some of their other aunts and uncles.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Judith Hill: “Heal The World” Singer From Jackson Memorial Revealed : Rolling Stone : Rock and Roll Daily

 

[Abycka]

Judith Hill: “Heal The World” Singer From Jackson Memorial Revealed : Rolling Stone : Rock and Roll Daily

She is an awesome singer ! I like how Sharpton and some others are struggling with the lyrics.

 

[U2isthebest]

Michael Jackson is truly powerful. He made me like something Al Sharpton said for the first time in my life. Btw, I was reading an interview with Lisa Marie from a few years back where she said Michael really wanted to have children with her when they were married and her refusal to do so was one of the bigger reasons for their split. Can you imagine a child having the DNA of Michael Jackson and Elvis? That'd be the most talented kid ever.

 

[deep]

I will also admit to feeling strange while Paris was speaking. Yes, it was so very sad..but it made me feel like an intruder at that point. I'm in no way faulting her for sharing her feelings, it was a natural outpouring of emotion. It just felt like we should not have been privy to that.

she seemed like a pretty smart little girl, very self-aware

I believe she was aware of some of the negative stories

I also believe she knew this was the one best chance to give something back to her daddy, the truth about their relationships.

 

[karinlv]

I love this song..one of my faves


YouTube - Michael Jackson - Stranger in Moscow (Acapella)

 

[karinlv]

she seemed like a pretty smart little girl, very self-aware

I believe she was aware of some of the negative stories

I also believe she knew this was the one best chance to give something back to her daddy, the truth about their relationships.

I can see that. She felt the need to defend him. Good point.

 

[U2isthebest]

^Definitely. I'm sure Michael (as he should have) kept his kids sheltered from the lies and rumors in the media about him as best as he could, but these kids were still out in the world and I'm sure they know at least some of the things that have been said about their dad. Seeing just those few seconds of Paris speaking was a testament to what a great parent Michael was. She (and the boys) are clearly strong beyond their years and for kids who until a few weeks ago were unrecognizable to the general public to be so courageous is really amazing.

 

[AnnRKeyintheUSA]

The L.A. Coroner issued a statement the day that story came out (It was originally published in the U.K. Sun Tabloid, which proves how "accurate" it was ). A lot of major media ran with it because they apparently forgot how to fact check, but the Coroner said the information was completely false.

I beileved it because it was on CNN Anderson Cooper. It could be that some of it is true but it wasn't supposed to leak and they had to deny it. Anyway I hope it is false, because it's terrible.

So he's not the father of the first two kids or is that a rumor too? Everyone I know keeps saying they can't be his because they don't look half black. Somebody even told me he couldn't have kids because he'd been castrated as a child by Joe to keep his voice from changing. I don't believe that because he looked plenty manly before he got the face surgeries. What is the true story?

 

[karinlv]

Yeah, I don't know about that..I hadn't heard that before and in this morning's paper in the celeb buzz section there was a reference to a local reporter who met the kids yesterday and is now convinced she knows the real father is Jackson's former dermatologist, Klein or something. It made me very angry to read it that way, true or not she came off like a pompous ass.


*edited to add* And I talked to my husband about the kids the other night..it seemed like a ridiculous question but I posed it and his answer was look at Tiger Woods' kids. His wife is causcasian and the kids took after her. Whoever has the dominant gene, I guess.