Prometheus - Spoiler filled discussion

[Jive Turkey]

uuuuhhuhuhuhu

 

[Jive Turkey]

Just had a thought about the black goo.

Maybe the black goo from the beginning of the film and the black goo from the planetoid are different substances, and the black goo itself if just the vessel with which the Engineers transmit their different genetic technology.
There is a scene where David discovers the goo and says something along the lines of "big things come from small beginnings". This could be a wink to the audience in reference to the xenomorphs themselves. In order to start the xenomorph life cycle, the goo infects its host and turns him into a 'zombie' in the same way fungus can turn an ant into a 'zombie'. The purpose being for the host to forcefully mate with a female, thus implanting the seed in the womb so that it can gestate into a facehugger, who upon exiting the new host can then implant a third host with an egg, who will then 'birth' a chest buster (which will grow into a xenomorph). Once the initial batch of facehuggers have been born via black goo, there's no need for the black goo; the life cycle is self sustaining (and by extension, the weapon is self sustaining. perfect for wiping out a planet). Otherwise, being bio weapons that the Engineers created, the facehuggers would have had to of been fully created in a lab of some sort, but that doesn't seem to be the case. So the Engineers knew fully well that the black goo led to xenomorphs (hence the drawings of them in the murals. Maybe some sort of warning sign), that was the whole point of creating it, and apparently they accidentally infected themselves.

So the lifecycle is

goo infects host > host mates and implants facehugger seed > Facehugger birthed > facehuggers implants host > chestbuster xenomorph birthed > Full grown xenomorph lays eggs > Eggs hatch into facehuggers > ect

The black goo/zombie cycle is just the catalyst to get the whole thing started and it exploits the humans reproductive cycle to achieve that

 

[Jive Turkey]

That's the only way the zombified humans make any sense. They have to have some sort of functional reason for being. And it makes sense that the way the goo affects humans is the way it's intended to work since it was designed to wipe us out. Since the consentual sex prior to full zombification resulted in the initiation of the xenomorph lifecycle, it would make sense that the whole purpose is the kick start that process.

I may be rambling a little bit, but it makes perfect sense

 

[Lancemc]

Just assumed the black goo acts as a sort of catalyst for genetic mutation which affects its host DNA differently depending on its make-up. There's some degree of logic to the various permutations throughout the film, but generally just whatever makes for the coolest scenario at any given time, which I'm totally OK with.

 

[Jive Turkey]

But it was specifically designed as a bio weapon to be used against the humans. Wouldn't it makes sense that all the events that lead up to the xenomorphs (the endgame bioweapon) would be intended and not just a random genetic mutation? They were stockpiling that stuff to bring to Earth. They had to know its effects. The only way for the xenomorphs to come about on earth is if those same chains of events took place. Otherwise, what's the point?

Even the worms in the facility (which would've been composed of the same DNA deposited on Earth) went through a similar process. We only saw the pure, unchanged worms swimming in the goo, then the next time we see them, they're already in facehugger-worm form (so we weren't shown the zombie worm mating and gestating the black goo seed, but we can assume it happened, since that's the lifecycle). The cobra worm things weren't mutated earth worms, they were what hatched from the earthworms after having the black seed gestate inside (as we know from previous movies, the form of the xenomorphs is dependent on the creatures they choose for hosts. That's why the facehugger removed from Elizabeth looked different than those of the worms)

 

[Lancemc]

Well... yeah. I agree I think. Maybe I didn't communicate that well enough. I just meant the resulting forms can be a bit surprising in design, but it all kind of feels intuitive. I'm tired, I don't know.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Zombie rapists

 

[Saracene]

Saw the movie again today. This time around I was more annoyed with how boring/useless most of the characters were, particularly as I've rewatched Alien and Aliens and thought that the older films handled its cast and group dynamics much better without necessarily fleshing out every character. I especially couldn't wait for Holloway to get flamethrowered and go the f*** away. Still loved the visuals, Shaw and David 8. I thought in particular that the CGI for the Engineers were crazy good - usually when a computer-generated character appears onscreen, I have to get past the "I'm watching a CGI character" feeling but these guys just looked so incredibly real.

 

[deep]

Saw the movie again today. This time around .

Yes, I saw it the Friday it opened in a newer theater with a big bright screen and great sound. I really liked it. A lot of fun.

I saw it three days later in an older multiplex (smaller screen) in 3D. Did not enjoy it near as much. Hated the 3D. Knowing the story, it was not as compelling. I also thought about the Alien movies too. Most of them hold up pretty good on the re-watch. Maybe the critics are right, this is not a great movie. I still say the visuals make it a film that one should see in a good theater.

 

[corianderstem]

Saw it last night, enjoyed the hell out of it. I've seen the Alien movies, but only once, and a long time ago, so I didn't have any real preconceived notions about what to expect here that would tie in. (Obviously, I got the ending chest-bursting bit. Heh.)

I thought the opening sequence was stunning. Assuming that was filmed somewhere real and not CGI gorgeousness, my best guess was that it was Iceland.

Saw it in a really good Seattle theater, and there were several scenes where the floor/seats were rumbling along with whatever loud thing was happening on the screen. Pretty great.

 

[Jive Turkey]

my best guess was that it was Iceland.

You would be correct

 

[corianderstem]

I rule.

also, now I want to go to Iceland.

 

[Saracene]

Iceland + Greenland is my dream trip

I want to go to northern Scotland after this movie, as well (the place where they find the cave painting). I love my majestic bleak landscapes.

I liked 3D in this movie, though I'm not sure how much difference it actually makes as opposed to the normal 2D film. As for film itself, yeah it's got some massive problems but I still think that the good stuff makes it worth watching (and re-watching).

 

[corianderstem]

I liked how they used some of the French ancient cave paintings (the horses were the ones I noticed) for the ones in Scotland.

.... speaking of places I want to go. YES PLEASE.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Imma see it again tonight, yo

 

[Jive Turkey]

Just got back and I have to say that it held up pretty well on a second viewing. I still enjoyed it a great deal. Something really quick that I noticed from the 3D to the 2D; There's a scene near the start of the film where everyone is still in stasis as they approach the planet. David opens the blast shield from the viewing window at the front of the ship. In 3D, the shot was stunning. Might've been one of my favourite single shots of the entire movie. But in 2D, I hardly noticed it.

To the actual film and story:
First of all, there is no doubt that the liquid the engineer drinks at the beginning of the film and the black goo from the main portions of the film are not the same. The liquid at the beginning looks to come from some sort of honeycomb looking structure and is more metallic; it almost looked like mercury. So the people complaining that the black goo has no rules and was just a magic device for the writers to have it do whatever they wanted are completely wrong (and by extension, that chart from earlier in the thread is also wrong). The black goo affects the engineers in the exact same way that it affects the humans. It's quite obvious that the severed head that they found was infected with the black goo, but had been decapitated early in the infection process. When they stimulate the nervous system and reanimate it, the infection continues to mutate the head. The only difference is, they over stimulate and are unable to bring it back down in time, so the head explodes. I maintain that my zombie theory still stands.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Another question that was actually directly asked in the film: Is Vickers an android? There are certainly suggestions of such outside of the outright accusation, among them her being Weyland's "daughter." She was also able to throw David around fairly easily, which was a bit surprising.

On the second viewing, I would say it's pretty apparent that she isn't an android. Otherwise it would make little sense that she was in stasis for the duration of the trip or that she was exercising after the stasis, presumably to work 2.5 years of stillness out of her muscles and joints

 

[Jive Turkey]

I thought in particular that the CGI for the Engineers were crazy good - usually when a computer-generated character appears onscreen, I have to get past the "I'm watching a CGI character" feeling but these guys just looked so incredibly real.

Just reading through the thread to see what question popped up and saw this one that I meant to comment on. Pretty sure the Engineers weren't cgi (aside from being digitally made bigger), but rather a real actor with silicone face appliances to get that creepy translucent look

 

[deep]

On the second viewing, I would say it's pretty apparent that she isn't an android. Otherwise it would make little sense that she was in stasis for the duration of the trip or that she was exercising after the stasis, presumably to work 2.5 years of stillness out of her muscles and joints

I caught that too and almost took time to write it.

One thing that bothered me is the unlikely coincidence that the ship just happens to choose the right place to come through the planets atmosphere to see the large line drawings in the valley that leads them to the alien lair and spaceship.

there would have been an better way to do it. Just have them orbit the planet for a few days and have them send out a few satellite probes that could have spotted the line drawings.

 

[Jive Turkey]

One thing that bothered me is the unlikely coincidence that the ship just happens to choose the right place to come through the planets atmosphere to see the large line drawings in the valley that leads them to the alien lair and spaceship.

Ya, I thought about that too this time. I guess for the sake of realism, they could've done it differently, but movies often take those liberties (And who's to say that the entire planet isn't filled with these installations and no matter where they landed, they would've found a similar one). The same goes for the complaints that Vickers runs away from the crashing ship along it's length rather than to the side. But it's not as if she would still be alive had she done that, it would have just been a more round about way of killing her.

 

[I Move in Mysterious Ways]

On the second viewing, I would say it's pretty apparent that she isn't an android. Otherwise it would make little sense that she was in stasis for the duration of the trip or that she was exercising after the stasis, presumably to work 2.5 years of stillness out of her muscles and joints

Yep, those are among the arguments I'm hearing for her not being an android. On the other hand, weren't Ash and Bishop in stasis for their trip? Vickers might just be a different model than David.

 

[deep]

I've thought of those possibilities, I really would like to see her in the next movie.

But, it really does not add up. She wanted her father to move on so she would inherit his holdings. That suggest she is a natural person with a history, birth, childhood, etc.


With that crap writer from Lost, anything couild happen. This certainly is no where near as well written as Blade Runner ( Philip K. Dick )

 

[I Move in Mysterious Ways]

With that crap writer from Lost, anything couild happen. This certainly is no where near as well written as Blade Runner ( Philip K. Dick )

If you're talking about the screenplay, I wouldn't attribute that to Dick. His book is pretty drastically different than Scott's film.

 

[deep]

after I wrote that I remembered that Dick did not write the screenplay

I should have just said BR was much better, perhaps having good source material was a help,
the writing on Lost did take a huge dive, Lindelof deserves credit for the parts that work and the parts that do not.

 

[I Move in Mysterious Ways]

As much as I really liked Prometheus, it's hard for me to argue with that. Blade Runner is one of my absolute favorites.

 

[deep]

whoever did the reboot on the last Startrek did a pretty good job on that one.

I still like this movie and recommend it. I hope the writing on the next one is better.

 

[corianderstem]

I rolled my eyes when Vickers got crushed by the rolling spaceship.

RUN TO THE SIDE, YOU DUMB-ASS!

 

[bonocomet]

Just saw this the other night and I did like it, and would like a second viewing as well. The 3D was very good (in Imax) except when there was text on screen, it was double. But otherwise looked really nice.

Enjoyed the tie-ins to Alien the most. I saw Alien in a movie theater in 1979 where it scared the unsuspecting crap out of me, LOL, so it was fun to see this.

I did have one big problem with it though, and I don't think I've seen anyone mention it here. Why oh why have a younger actor in old age makeup play that part? I don't get it. I know he did viral ads as his younger self before the movie came out but seriously that can't be the only reason. As much as they try, aging makeup just hasn't been mastered yet enough to pull it off in a totally realistic way, and for a character who spends the entire movie OLD. I could see if half the movie was his younger self or something that necessitated it. And I've seen much better jobs than they did it here. So why?? I really enjoyed the movie but every single time he was on screen it just pulled me out of the moment. Every time he was on I couldn't help but thinking, "Now don't con me BIFF!"

 

[corianderstem]

Yeah, I thought that, too.

 

[DRay9911]

I did have one big problem with it though, and I don't think I've seen anyone mention it here. Why oh why have a younger actor in old age makeup play that part? I don't get it.

rich has railed about this on FB and in text conversations...