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Old 06-26-2009, 02:47 AM   #646
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There's also a difference between someone molesting children, and being accused but found not guilty of molesting children.
And there's a difference between having photography books featuring naked children, and not having those books.
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:48 AM   #647
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Heath Ledger wasn't accused of molesting children, didn't have a disturbing fixation with them, or chop his face up with plastic surgery.

He also died when he was just staring to do some of his best work.

See the difference?
Heath's death was at his own hands, intentional or not.
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:53 AM   #648
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I totally understand where you're coming from. I'm still trying to grasp the whole attachment most people have to celebrities and this obsession with celebrity culture. It's amazing how his death overshadowed Farrah Fawcett's death (and to a lesser extent, Ed McMahon's), when in the end they're just two people who very few people actually know.

It's strange. I'm not condemning anyone for being emotional that someone has died, but why them, you know?

I'd like to hear some thoughts on this. I'm sure someone can express it better than I have.
Those are very good points, and good questions too.

With me, I don't really have that much of an attachment to him. I wasn't really a fan, wasn't into the whole poppy genre, but I did like some of his songs, and it's probably only since I've been older that I really appreciated the degree of his talent. And the fact is, for anyone that has any memory of that era, he was HUGE for several years. Like, legendary huge. Elvis huge. Beatles huge. A genuine cultural icon.

As for the rest, I've followed his life, the seedier side of it, and to me the whole thing is just sad. I won't repeat what I said earlier in the thread, but I've always felt badly for the guy, and that he essentially became a freak show. I'm glad that all of that hasn't overshadowed his incredible career *too* much. I guess the way I approach him is, I tend to separate the cute, precociously talented kid they show in old video clips, and the solo performer he became from the wreck his personal life ended up being. He was a mess, and I'm sorry that there was no one in his life with the power to step in and get him some help.
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:54 AM   #649
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And there's a difference between having photography books featuring naked children, and not having those books.

Was the book kitty porn?

Did Pete Townsend have more incriminating images than M J?
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:55 AM   #650
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Heath's death was at his own hands, intentional or not.
Kind of like Randy the Ram.
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:56 AM   #651
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Those are very good points, and good questions too.

With me, I don't really have that much of an attachment to him. I wasn't really a fan, wasn't into the whole poppy genre, but I did like some of his songs, and it's probably only since I've been older that I really appreciated the degree of his talent. And the fact is, for anyone that has any memory of that era, he was HUGE for several years. Like, legendary huge. Elvis huge. Beatles huge. A genuine cultural icon.

As for the rest, I've followed his life, the seedier side of it, and to me the whole thing is just sad. I won't repeat what I said earlier in the thread, but I've always felt badly for the guy, and that he essentially became a freak show. I'm glad that all of that hasn't overshadowed his incredible career *too* much. I guess the way I approach him is, I tend to separate the cute, precociously talented kid they show in old video clips, and the solo performer he became from the wreck his personal life ended up being. He was a mess, and I'm sorry that there was no one in his life with the power to step in and get him some help.
Thanks.

I agree with pretty much all you said there. It's literally like aliens abducted the guy in the mid-'80s (between the Thriller/Bad eras) and brought back some freak show. There's really no way to describe it.
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:57 AM   #652
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Heath's death was at his own hands, intentional or not.
Correct.

But as I said, he didn't harm anyone (aside from the loss his loved ones suffered), didn't dangle his baby over a balcony, didn't exhibit all kinds of deranged behavior (not including his Joker performance).
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:59 AM   #653
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The thing about child molesters
is that they seem to have a need to have their urges satisfied

there are multiple victims, that is why so many Catholic priests got nailed

victims come out of the woodwork

that is not the case with MJ

and he was a very attractive target
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Old 06-26-2009, 03:00 AM   #654
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Was the book kitty porn?

Did Pete Townsend have more incriminating images than M J?
From Wiki:

"As part of the Operation Ore investigations, Townshend was cautioned by the police in 2003 after acknowledging a credit card access in 1999 to the Landslide website alleged to advertise child pornography.[11][12] He stated in the press and on his website that he had been engaged in research for A Different Bomb (a now-abandoned book based on an anti-child pornography essay published on his website in January 2002) and his autobiography, and as part of a campaign against child pornography. The police searched his house and confiscated fourteen computers and other materials, and after a four-month forensic investigation confirmed that they had found no evidence of child abuse images. Consequently, the police offered a caution rather than pressing charges, issuing a statement: "After four months of investigation by officers from Scotland Yard's child protection group, it was established that Mr Townshend was not in possession of any downloaded child abuse images." In a statement issued by his solicitor,[13] Townshend said, "I accept that I was wrong to access this site, and that by doing so, I broke the law, and I have accepted the caution that the police have given me." As a statutory consequence of accepting the caution, Townshend was entered on the Violent and Sex Offender Register for five years.[14]

In April 2007, an article in The Guardian stated that Townshend was "falsely accused of accessing child pornography".[15] After obtaining copies of the Landslide hard drives and tracing Townshend's actions, investigative journalist Duncan Campbell wrote in PC Pro Magazine, "Under pressure of the media filming of the raid, Townshend appears to have confessed to something he didn't do." Campbell states that their entire evidence against Townshend was that he accessed a single site among the Landslide offerings which was not connected with child pornography. The authorities that deal with these websites admitted long afterward that Townshend had indeed contacted them immediately with the information, yet declined to speak publicly about this at the time of his arrest.[16]"

Jackson said his nude children photo books (PLURAL) were art and that he had the right to own them. Which is fine on its own, but combined with everything else? Fairly damning.
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Old 06-26-2009, 03:00 AM   #655
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Sicy, the majority of what you said seems all well and good, but who else are you including in that "controversial" category? There's a difference between someone who was difficult to live with or treated their family like shit, and what MJ has in his bio.
Well the Saddam thread Tiger_Edge linked to was a good example. There have been others that have received similar responses like this. Regardless of how terrible people think someone was, if they were famous, or infamous, or some type of high profile celebrity, there will be a large amount of people that still feel a sense of loss with their passing, and want to be able to pay respects or appreciate without wading through shit loads of rude and insensitive posts. I dont think its too much to ask to have a place for those people to mourn. That's all I'm saying.
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Old 06-26-2009, 03:02 AM   #656
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People were paying their respects to Saddam Hussein??

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Old 06-26-2009, 03:04 AM   #657
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Correct.

didn't dangle his baby over a balcony, didn't exhibit all kinds of deranged behavior .

I can't tell you how many times I have seen fathers tossing their babies up in the air like a sack of potatoes, bugs the shit out of me,
one slip, and they end up a regular poster in here

just seems like you and some others have a huge hard on for MJ

yes, he was eccentric, odd, to say the least

but that baby most likely has had a better life than most because MJ was his father
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Old 06-26-2009, 03:06 AM   #658
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I haven't read most of this thread, so this isn't directed at anyone in particular, but my brother posted this as his Facebook status and I agreed with the thought:

"RIP Michael Jackson. A True Performer. I wonder how all these people making jokes would feel if they, or someone they love, fucked up, died, and everyone just pissed all over their memory without acknowledging the good things they did."

Sorry if I'm just reiterating what others have already said, I just wanted to add it.
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Old 06-26-2009, 03:07 AM   #659
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Thanks.

I agree with pretty much all you said there. It's literally like aliens abducted the guy in the mid-'80s (between the Thriller/Bad eras) and brought back some freak show. There's really no way to describe it.
Exactly. The only logical explanation for his behaviour is that he was mentally ill, and had no one that was willing to step in and help him.

Or, there's the alien abduction theory, if you prefer.
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Old 06-26-2009, 03:08 AM   #660
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It's also how I explain Aerosmith's "comeback," but that's debatable.

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People were paying their respects to Saddam Hussein??

If Obama can try and shut down the Autobots, anything can happen.
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