Making A Murderer

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I'm stuck on episode 4 because bonoz _212221 has been slow as fuck in watching this.

It's a good show.
 
I WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN SLOW TO WATCHING IT IF YOU'D STARTED IT TWO WEEKS AGO WHEN I ASKED YOU TO! :angry:.

Obviously I'm just gonna have to binge it this weekend, because it's picking up way too much steam for me to remain spoiler free much longer.
 
it's nowhere near as OMGUNBELIEVABLE as the internet wants to make it seem, but i'm only about halfway through.
 
This show pisses me off because I knew the victim. It can go away at any time.


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A) It didn't need to be 10 episodes long. I had to force myself to watch the final two, to be honest.

B) I'm far more fascinated by the phenomenon of it than the case itself. How bizarre, surreal and upsetting for anyone remotely connected to the Holbachs or the Averys to have thousands of people, ten years later, storming the internet and declaring innocence or guilt.

2B) Also fascinated by my homeland accent. It's so random - I have family members and friends who do have the accent, and others that don't. And they're from the same part of the state. It's so weird.

C) I can see loads of reasonable doubt, but that's because that's what the doc wanted me to see. I don't completely trust that I have the whole story. If the intent of the doc was to point out the horrors of the justice system, they should have done a better job of not making it so one-sided.

D) Although I'm fairly convinced that the nephew got hosed from every side. If anything comes of this legal-wise, I hope he gets a new trial.

E) One thing I am certain of? Ken Kratz. Fuck that fucking guy.
 
I have a hard time with this.

Where there's smoke, there's usually fire. This is an age-old nugget of wisdom that has stood the test of time.

However...however..the problem with universal truths is they can sometimes be exploited by people for illicit means. And sometimes that illicit end can be an easier time convicting someone who possibly is guilty. Sometimes that illicit end could be pinning a murder on an innocent person. Either way, it's still a miscarriage of justice. Without proper justice, what's the use of a legal system?

And this is why I was so fascinated by this documentary, and feel so bad for the family and friends of the victim...because I truly feel justice has not been served for her. Her memory deserves a legitimate trial based on real evidence and a solid conviction. Her memory deserves a full investigation into ALL parties who had motive and plenty of opportunity to commit this crime. And if that eventually results in a conviction for Steven Avery, then so be it. But now what we have is this tainted conviction and, perhaps even, the very real possibility that a killer still walks free amongst us.

The other thing about smoke...is that there's plenty of smoke swirling around the possible bonfire of a reality that this was a complete frameup. So it works both ways.

I have no special love for the guy they managed to convict. Him, his family..all of them..they are not my kind of people. They're icky. I have no special empathy for them, my outrage is entirely limited to how strongly I feel that justice has not been properly served for the victim.

And yes...fuck Ken Kratz that guy is as slimy a scum ball as they come.
 
I'm not saying Avery is Innocent, but he is certainly Not Guilty by the standards of the court. There is plenty of reasonable doubt.

A couple days ago a juror said she felt guilty was the way to go, out of fear for her safety living in Manitowoc.


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"Oooooooh a documentary about a crazy legal case!"

Yeah, you dumb motherfuckers. They've been around for a while. This one is no different.

Fuck documentaries.

Fiction forever.
 
And it's over.

Brendan's case is baffling to me. His entire confession was scrapped by the end of Steven's case due to a conspicuous lack of evidence (the murder was judged to have occurred in the garage, not the bedroom, which was clean), yet the alleged validity of that very scenario got him life in prison?
 
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I was ok with this when I assumed the case was settled. Now knowing it's not, I just feel really uncomfortable with the whole thing.

But I don't see how Brendan is still in prison.

Also, yeah, fuck this thing being ten hours long. And allow me to once again voice my disdain for the Netflix model. No one needs an entire season of television in one go.
 
corianderstem said:
Don't worry - the internet will be outraged about something else in another week or two.
Click to expand...


Yeah hopefully it does. I think the Internet reaction is even more ridiculous than the documentary. Oh yeah, and finally people are starting to at least feel bad for the family of the victim. This whole thing makes me so fucking angry.


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I feel torn about that as well. Of course the victim needs to not be forgotten, and I can't imagine how the family feels with all of this going on.

Then I think about Amanda Knox, and how her story was in the news for so long, and people kept asking "what about Meredith Kircher and her family?" Well, of course a woman is still dead, and nothing will bring her back, but if the wrong person has been imprisoned for it, that's important.

Not that there's much similarity between her story and the Avery case, but ... yeah.

And then I think about the West Memphis Three case. I read/watched a lot about that, and felt very strongly that those three guys were wrongfully imprisoned, so why do I feel so strongly about that, and so ambivalent about the Avery case? I don't recall a ton of details of the WMT case today, but my gut tells me there was a lot more straightforward evidence (or lack thereof) there as opposed to the Avery business.
 
What bothers me is all of the armchair detectives at home who are going after the victim's brother.

Sure, he was unlikable on screen and he acted weird...his sister had been murdered.

The documentarians put their bias on clear display, and because they pitched this as a TV show, the viewer at home can't help but sort the "Characters" into "good guy" and "bad guy" piles. He is most definitely portrayed as a "bad guy", and you want to root against him. That's terrible. His sister was murdered. I hated myself for feeling that way about him, constantly, while I was watching the show.

The more I think about it, I really don't like the way this was handled at all. They basically took one of those long, public trials that some people watch live, condensed it with a pretty bow and then presented it to all people as some higher art form.

It's still just sitting at home watching hours of court room proceedings, except this time there's clear bias on display and that's really troubling.

Like I said: When I thought all of this was done and put away with, I had fun watching it. Now that I know it's still being investigated, I feel queasy about it.
 
bono_212 said:
What bothers me is all of the armchair detectives at home who are going after the victim's brother.

Sure, he was unlikable on screen and he acted weird...his sister had been murdered.

The documentarians put their bias on clear display, and because they pitched this as a TV show, the viewer at home can't help but sort the "Characters" into "good guy" and "bad guy" piles. He is most definitely portrayed as a "bad guy", and you want to root against him. That's terrible. His sister was murdered. I hated myself for feeling that way about him, constantly, while I was watching the show.

The more I think about it, I really don't like the way this was handled at all. They basically took one of those long, public trials that some people watch live, condensed it with a pretty bow and then presented it to all people as some higher art form.

It's still just sitting at home watching hours of court room proceedings, except this time there's clear bias on display and that's really troubling.

Like I said: When I thought all of this was done and put away with, I had fun watching it. Now that I know it's still being investigated, I feel queasy about it.
Click to expand...


Agreed. And I didn't know Theresa well enough to know her family but from everything I've heard the whole "her brother did it" theory is conceive hogwash.


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mikal said:
Agreed. And I didn't know Theresa well enough to know her family but from everything I've heard the whole "her brother did it" theory is conceive hogwash.


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Click to expand...

From what I've been able to discern since last night, Avery doesn't even seem to think that at all. He's pointed to four potential people, and they're all relatives of his own.

But, hell, say for a second I want to play armchair PI myself, here's my whole issue with the Avery was framed theory: I fully believe, like that scummy, scummy DA also pointed out, that for the police to have framed him, you also have to take into full consideration the idea that the police committed the murder.

Things otherwise, just don't add up. Especially not with some of the accusations I've seen attributed to Avery, such as family members of his own planting evidence. That doesn't jive with ANY of the other arguments they've made up to this point.

There is a potential that the police found evidence, I suppose. And there's potential that they decided to use that evidence to frame Avery, I suppose. But then you have to question a lot of things. I suppose the simplest explanation would be: They found the truck with her body, moved the truck with her body to the Avery compound...burned the body themselves? Planted the blood, cremains and evidence. But then...Jesus, that's just so hard to believe that anyone would do that. A police officer would do that, I should say.

I don't know, it doesn't sit well with me, none of it.
 
corianderstem said:
One of the best things I saw on the internet this week was a commenter on another site describing Kratz's the sound of voice as "whispers from a butthole."
Click to expand...

Talk about a voice that did NOT match a person. Every time he spoke, I was like, "That CAN'T be his real voice. It can't."
 
There are some things about the show, however, that did amuse me:

anigif_optimized-4824-1451876134-12.gif


anigif_optimized-18161-1451929233-8.gif
 
I think what this series shows more than anything is that income equality has an incredible negative effect on one's ability to defend themselves from accusation, as well as how the media's narrative can have an impact on both the case itself and how the public perceives a case. They're just vultures.

I don't know if they're innocent, guilty or otherwise. I would tend to guess that the other Dassey and the step father who passed each other on the road and were each other's alibis might have something to do with it... Alas, if Brendan had money he'd be free.
 
I'm on episode 7. I don't know what to believe. All the evidence definitely doesn't add up and is not cut and dry.

Also, if you aren't watching the show and don't give a crap about it, go to another thread instead of spewing profanities.
 
So, about Ken Kratz:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Kratz
In October 2009, Kratz was prosecuting a domestic violence case against the boyfriend of a 26-year-old domestic violence victim. She filed a police report in Kaukauna, Wisconsin, alleging that Kratz had sent her 30 sexually coercive text messages over the span of three days.[12] She said that she felt that he was trying to coerce her into a sexual relationship at the risk of dismissing the case against her boyfriend.[13] The report was referred to the state's Division of Criminal Investigation. During the DCI investigation, two more women came forward accusing Kratz of harassing and intimidating them.[14] At the time, Kratz was serving as chairman of the Wisconsin Crime Victims' Rights Board.[1]

Kratz resigned in October 2010 after governor Jim Doyle sought his removal.[15][3] After his accuser filed a federal civil suit against him, Kratz settled out of court in 2013.[16][17]

In June 2014, Kratz's law license was suspended for four months by the Wisconsin Supreme Court. During the disciplinary hearing, Kratz admitted abusing prescription drugs and being treated for sexual addiction and narcissistic personality disorder, [6][1] [18].
Click to expand...

He's clearly very familiar with conflicts of interest.

The comments on his yelp page are quite something: http://www.yelp.com/biz/kratz-law-firm-west-bend
 
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Of course. The tricky part is convincing the person that they actually need help.

He was probably forced to go.
 
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