I keep thinking about this series a few days after finishing. Apart from Brendan's heartbreaking situation, the thing that perhaps makes me the most furious is the statement that Kratz made in his closing statement at the trial: "reasonable doubt is for innocent people". That's basically the whole series in 6 words.
Making A Murderer
- Thread starter Headache in a Suitcase
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Oregoropa
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bono_212
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Rachel D.
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I just finished watching this last night. The whole thing is very sad.
What really got me was how the police didn't try very hard to look for any other possible suspects. It really seemed like they had a vendetta against the Averys. I kept thinking that they should be questioning Teresa's ex boyfriend, who came to visit her periodically for some reason, and her male roommate. And find out who was calling her before she died.
It was also odd how the bones in the fire pit were broken up into such small pieces. If someone threw a body onto an open fire like that, there would be more left over than tiny bone fragments. I saw a video once of a mortician talking about how you can't legally have Viking funerals because the open fire wouldn't be hot enough to sufficiently burn a body, so you have to use a cremation kiln. I thought about that while watching this show.
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What really got me was how the police didn't try very hard to look for any other possible suspects. It really seemed like they had a vendetta against the Averys. I kept thinking that they should be questioning Teresa's ex boyfriend, who came to visit her periodically for some reason, and her male roommate. And find out who was calling her before she died.
It was also odd how the bones in the fire pit were broken up into such small pieces. If someone threw a body onto an open fire like that, there would be more left over than tiny bone fragments. I saw a video once of a mortician talking about how you can't legally have Viking funerals because the open fire wouldn't be hot enough to sufficiently burn a body, so you have to use a cremation kiln. I thought about that while watching this show.
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namkcuR
ONE love, blood, life
So, Brendan Dassey's conviction was overturned by a federal judge. If the state doesn't decide to retry him within 90 days, he will be freed.
mikal
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What a bunch of BS.
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LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
Regardless of whether or not you believe Dassey was guilty, his initial trial/questioning was certainly unconstitutional.
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bono_212
Blue Crack Distributor
I know this is personal for you, but I honestly didn't think anyone found Brendan guilty. :/ I can't possibly know or understand your feelings on this but I'm sure it's a much bigger thing for you than for a person who spent ten hours watching this thing on tv.
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
Yeah and thanks for acknowledging. I obviously want justice to be accurate of course, but what really makes my blood boil is all the people on Facebook celebrating this while no one is acknowledging how hard this has to be on Theresa's family.
Having known Theresa has definitely changed my perspective on other cases like this shown on Dateline and other shows where the victim always seems to take a backseat to the sexy "whodunit" story.
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corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
I had mixed feelings about the show/phenomenon in general, for those reasons (I was glad to have your perspective as a local with a connection).
I'd like to think that were I ever in a situation like this with a murdered family member (god forbid), I'd be able to believe that the justice system works as it should ... which also means when something's fucked-up, it's made right. But yeah, I can't truly imagine it.
I'd like to think that were I ever in a situation like this with a murdered family member (god forbid), I'd be able to believe that the justice system works as it should ... which also means when something's fucked-up, it's made right. But yeah, I can't truly imagine it.
BigMacPhisto
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Yes, it's not good for Theresa's family, but, um, what the fuck? An innocent man was behind bars and now isn't...
And you would think at the same time that Theresa's family after having sat through the trial and having probably watched the television show would maybe want to have the actual killer(s) brought to justice?
I mean, it's what generally happens to families once the DA brings the alleged criminal to their attention. They're going to believe at all costs that their loved one was murdered by that individual because they want to believe it, their emotions are running high and they trust that the state would get it right. I certainly feel bad for the family, but their great loss shouldn't undermine the horrific fact that two people were sent to prison for no reason (not to mention that having the wrong people in jail does nothing to help with their actual grief). Those that framed these two men and took them through the ringer are responsible for all the excess grief that the Halbachs and others are now dealing with, not Avery and Dassey.
And you would think at the same time that Theresa's family after having sat through the trial and having probably watched the television show would maybe want to have the actual killer(s) brought to justice?
I mean, it's what generally happens to families once the DA brings the alleged criminal to their attention. They're going to believe at all costs that their loved one was murdered by that individual because they want to believe it, their emotions are running high and they trust that the state would get it right. I certainly feel bad for the family, but their great loss shouldn't undermine the horrific fact that two people were sent to prison for no reason (not to mention that having the wrong people in jail does nothing to help with their actual grief). Those that framed these two men and took them through the ringer are responsible for all the excess grief that the Halbachs and others are now dealing with, not Avery and Dassey.
BigMacPhisto
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I wanted to reply to this months ago because it actually sickened me and it's like you missed the entire point of the documentary. It doesn't matter what the fuck you feel about these people on a personal level, the fact that this could happen to anyone and is a gross miscarriage of justice is the problem.
Really, to me it's fucking disgusting to basically belittle the fact that two men were labeled as murderers and have rotted away years of their lives because you find them to be dirty people. You should have empathy for them and for anyone that has been railroaded by the justice system in a similar fashion. It's the principle that matters, not the person.
And I don't mean to attack your or anything. I had seen this sentiment expressed back near the start of the year on the internet after watching this documentary and it just really baffles me. I wouldn't want to spend a minute with the Averys at their friggin' automobile cemetery, but I damn sure feel unbearable pain for what they've gone through.
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LemonMelon
More 5G Than Man
I mean, part of the reason the local police were able to pin it on Avery so easily was that he appeared to be a dirty, scummy guy from bad stock that the town collectively wanted rid of. The lack of empathy he inherently provokes is why the documentary exists.
Now, do I know he didn't do it? Of course not. The documentary left a lot out. I think I'm more inclined to say that he's not guilty on account of a botched trial/investigation than he is truly innocent of any crimes.
Brendan, on the other hand, really seems completely innocent even investigating beyond the documentary and I'm glad that he's going to get to experience some of his life. It's a shame he already lost so much of it. The guy is such an easy mark.
Now, do I know he didn't do it? Of course not. The documentary left a lot out. I think I'm more inclined to say that he's not guilty on account of a botched trial/investigation than he is truly innocent of any crimes.
Brendan, on the other hand, really seems completely innocent even investigating beyond the documentary and I'm glad that he's going to get to experience some of his life. It's a shame he already lost so much of it. The guy is such an easy mark.
gvox
Ghost of Love
I think you might have misconstrued what I meant. It's not that I find them to be icky people in the sense of "I'm from the right side of the tracks and they aren't"...but the more I learned about them (mostly, outside the show), the more I got the sense that it wasn't just about what side of the tracks they lived on, but in fact the entire family are some pretty morally bankrupt degenerates. Whether that is because of the circumstances they were born into, the choices they made, whatever...they are not good people. Sorry.
And I also don't feel any pain for Avery. I lean towards the side of him having murdered that girl. I don't think the state proved their case, and in fact not only royally fucked up their investigation but also probably planted evidence in an effort to get an open and shut conviction. But make no mistake: I think he killed her. His nephew played some role, but obviously not the role the prosecution made it out to be. I actually believe that now. So Avery? Fuck that guy, basically.
And by the way: I fully got the "point" of the documentary...including the agonizingly ridiculous finale which I rolled my eyes at the entire episode thru. They wanted us to feel empathy for Steven Avery, yes, we get it. The true irony is: when the show started, I had an INCREDIBLE amount of empathy for him. I was all in on his side. As the show progressed, and I started to do research outside the show, they lost me. Funny how that turned out...
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