LOST: The Final Season -Part 2- It only ends once

[deep]

WIN.

And it looks like we're in agreement as to what happened; you posted right before me.

Also, someone writing for the L.A. Times can be just as obtuse as you are. I love how the wreckage is supposed to imply they all died in the crash--nope, it's the wreckage that HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE THE LAST SIX SEASONS.

If they had died on impact, they wouldn't have known each other, and would have no reason to meet in any alternate reality/purgatory/whatever.

The writers wrote this very sloppy, you can argue it your way
it does not hold up, they had Richard say:

"You want to know a secret, Jack?" Richard says. "Something I've known a long, long time?" He leans down to Jack's face. "You're dead."

"You mean that figuratively, right?" Hurley says.

"No, I mean it literally. We're all dead. Every single one of us." Richard puts his arms out to the side. "And this, this, all this. It's not what you think it is. We're not on an island. We never were. We're in Hell. So I'm not interested in what Jacob said. In fact, maybe it's time we stop listening to him and we start listening to someone else. And that's exactly what I'm going to do." He takes a torch and walks away.

 

[deep]

Yeah, as BoMac said, this. I can't think of a more compelling, concise argument than that.

as someone who appreciates good writing

Deadwood
The Wire, etc

can't you at least be fair enough admit this series is full of holes

 

[bonocomet]

Yeah, I mean, I had the same takeaway....

The 6 seasons worth of Island activity did indeed happen. Jack dies on the Island, but Rose, Hurley, Ben, etc, live on....for who knows how much longer.

When they die, whenever that is, they find themselves in the flash sideways world...as was made clear by Christian, that world is not at all linear, and was (somehow) a construct made by the 815 survivors as a means to gather together and advance onwards (to where, no idea) together, since they mean(t) so much to one another.

Not only is that my take on it, but it seemed fairly clear, as well. But, of course, I could be very wrong. I just don't think I am, is all.

You're not wrong.

But yeah, it seemed pretty clear to me too. Many of them lived on and lived who knows how long. Only those we saw die over the run of the show died before Jack, everyone else after. But when they did die, they came together again since these were the people important to them. As said, time was not linear in the "sideways world". I liked when Hurley told Ben he'd been a great #2. I wonder how long their story had gone on... SPIN OFF!

 

[No spoken words]

as someone who appreciates good writing

Deadwood
The Wire, etc

can't you at least be fair enough admit this series is full of holes

I would never in a million years say that there are no holes in this show, especially from season 4 on. Absolutely. I never really would make mention of them too often because I will admit to not caring too much: I just roll along with the show and recognize the bad but focus on what I enjoy (and by the way, if that makes me an "apologist" so be it, I don't care. Sometimes, it's good to just let go and enjoy a thing, especially a thing designed for one reason only: your entertainment. If it stops being entertaining, you stop partaking).....and even during the weaker seasons, I enjoy it a lot, I just do. And perhaps sometimes that's a function of story/concept/big picture triumphing over execution, no doubt.

But we're not talking about young Jacob and MIB wearing the "wrong" types of clothes or Kate reaching for keys instead of Sawyer tugging on a belt....we're talking about how the show finishes up, etc. And, I'll tell you what, if the producers ever come out and say, definitively, that the Island stuff never happened, that the crash killed everyone on impact, etc, then I'll roll my eyes and shake my head and whatnot.......but, until they say that, nobody can convince me that all of the Island stuff was a "dream".

 

[No spoken words]

You're not wrong.

But yeah, it seemed pretty clear to me too. Many of them lived on and lived who knows how long. Only those we saw die over the run of the show died before Jack, everyone else after. But when they did die, they came together again since these were the people important to them. As said, time was not linear in the "sideways world". I liked when Hurley told Ben he'd been a great #2. I wonder how long their story had gone on... SPIN OFF!

If I had to choose one LOST spin-off, it would be Sayid and Ben roaming the globe, killing people. Bad people, sure, but, still.

 

[BoMac]

If the Island was a dream, did they dream up Ab Aeterno and Across the Sea, too? Why spend two episodes showing us the Island history when it isn't real anyway?

 

[lazarus]

The writers wrote this very sloppy, you can argue it your way
it does not hold up, they had Richard say:

"You want to know a secret, Jack?" Richard says. "Something I've known a long, long time?" He leans down to Jack's face. "You're dead."

"You mean that figuratively, right?" Hurley says.

"No, I mean it literally. We're all dead. Every single one of us." Richard puts his arms out to the side. "And this, this, all this. It's not what you think it is. We're not on an island. We never were. We're in Hell. So I'm not interested in what Jacob said. In fact, maybe it's time we stop listening to him and we start listening to someone else. And that's exactly what I'm going to do." He takes a torch and walks away.

Yeah, because Richard wasn't wrong about ANYTHING, and he had all the answers. He was just as in the dark as anyone else.

I feel sorry for you, either for having shitty taste or for not being able to understand what's right in front of your face.

 

[deep]

Laz, relax it is just a made up t v show, it is not real

we are just disagreeing about how well it was executed.

Why was Kate, Sawyer, and others that made it off the island on that second plane in the church with all the other supposed dead people?

 

[bonocomet]

Why was Kate, Sawyer and others that made it off the island on that second plane in the church with all the other dead people?

Everybody dies SOME TIME. *see: Time is not Linear*

 

[BoMac]

I have watched every episode because there are enough aspects of the show I do like. I have mentioned them before, the casting, production values, music scoring. I also think the writing was fairly good through season 5.

Why did they have Richard say "I mean it literally. We're all dead. Every single one of us."?

Why was Kate, Sawyer and others that made it off the island on that second plane in the church with all the other dead people?

Are you intentionally being obtuse?

Christian Shephard told Jack that time was not linear, some died before and some after him. So at some point, like all of us will, Kate and Sawyer died and joined the rest in that church.

Richard said that, because as a religious man who committed murder, he was told by the priest that he would go to hell. Then he ended up on the Island and was confronted by MIB and Jacob, who he thought was the Devil and God, respectively.

When it was revealed many years later that he was left in the dark by Jacob, he had lost his faith in the Island and Jacob, and reverted to his initial thoughts 140 years earlier, that the Island, in fact, was hell.

 

[No spoken words]

Everybody dies SOME TIME. *see Time is not linear*

What she said.

Deep, Christian explains to Jack that everyone in the church eventually died in the 815 did crash world. He goes on to explain to Jack that some died before him (Sun, Jin, Locke, etc) and some died afterwards (Ben, Hurley, Kate, etc) but that since the sideways world is not linear, it's not relevant when they died. This is not a personal interpretation, Deep, this is exactly what Christian said to Jack.

 

[deep]

Yes. I do remember what live dead Christian that got out of his coffin said to Jack. And that part supports your premise.

So was that whole sideways world only purpose to have all of those people available to meet Jack at that church when he would die in real time on the island?

 

[bonocomet]

So was that whole sideways world only purpose to have all of those people available to meet Jack at that church when he would die in real time on the island?

No, but it was Jack's death that we did follow here tonight. We saw just one of their stories end. (Jack's) Everyone else had their own end somewhere, some time too, and met up here as well. (rememeber ... time is not linear here (in the church place/sideways world))


Edit to say that actually you are kind of grasping it now. Yes it did exist for them to meet up in, but not just for Jack. It's for all of them when their death comes.

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

it appears that all the passengers on flight 815 died on impact,
Jack had no son, (in the hospital Locke told Jack he had no son) Jun and Jin had no baby and neither did Claire,
they were all in the church without any offspring

False, man. There certainly was an offspring at the church. Claire had her baby. Aaron was very clearly there at the final scene. I don't know what you're talking about.

I'll be back for my real comments on the episode (which I loved) tomorrow. Peace.

 

[deep]

I may have missed that
I guess baby Arron was dead?


the church was filled with dead people, right?
someone stayed outside, who was that?

 

[bonocomet]

I loved the show tonight. A few of my random thoughts afterward:


Locke's ending was so bittersweet His story arc and then his death had been so sad and tragic, but at least the friendships he made on the island were strong enough to bring him together with them at the end.


Ben not joining them was interesting and a little sad too. Many of the characters who weren't there, just were not there at all. But Ben was there. He just decided not to join them. It mirrored the scene recently on the island when many of them were reuniting, and he was standing on the outside looking in it seemed to a group he really wasn't a part of. I think him being at the departure point in sideways world showed that he came close, but not close enough maybe. He said his goodbyes to Hurley, and made his peace with Locke at least.


I have to say, it definitely took me by surprise that the only characters to die in the final episode were MIB and Jack. I had actually expected it to be more. It made it even more sad for me that it was only Jack I think. At least he didn't die alone. *Vincent *


And finally (for now), did any one else see The Langoliers written all over that scene of the jet taking off the island?

 

[Dalton]

Yeah, I mean, I had the same takeaway....

The 6 seasons worth of Island activity did indeed happen. Jack dies on the Island, but Rose, Hurley, Ben, etc, live on....for who knows how much longer.

When they die, whenever that is, they find themselves in the flash sideways world...as was made clear by Christian, that world is not at all linear, and was (somehow) a construct made by the 815 survivors as a means to gather together and advance onwards (to where, no idea) together, since they mean(t) so much to one another.

Not only is that my take on it, but it seemed fairly clear, as well. But, of course, I could be very wrong. I just don't think I am, is all.

Deep, I'll miss your weekly stumping for people to be as negative towards the show as you are. One can only admire your tenacity, persistence and repetitiveness. Perhaps you and Shouter can be #'s 1 and 2 on some sort of misanthropic island where you get to claim to like things then go on to laugh at it/rip it to shreds.

Not only does this sum up my interpretation of the ending, but its snarky ending was more subtle and deadly than I would have concocted.

 

[Hewson]

Well.

All the reunions/revelations in the sideways world were well acted and poignant.
The explanation of sideways world as limbo or whatever is acceptable.
Regardless of who died when, I think Jack is the last to arrive, because he is the last to "let go". (Some other minor characters such as Ana Lucia still haven't, but they probably don't want her there anyway, she was always angry )
Clearly deep's and the LA Times' interpretation that they were all dead on impact makes no sense because why would Ben be there at the end since he wasn't on the flight. And Penny was not part of island life or flight 815 at all.

So I am satisfied with that aspect of the story, but still left feeling somewhat empty as far as so many things along the way never being explained in the least...Walt, no children brought to term, what is the light exactly etc.

Oh and Kate looked hot in the black cocktail dress, dead or alive.

 

[phanan]

As someone who hasn't been too impressed with much of the show lately, sans a few specific episodes, I thought the finale was well done. Not very surprising, and several things still unanswered (as we knew going in that it would be), but overall, I'm satisfied.

 

[Daddysgonnapay]

I was trying to notice if when smoke-lock fell and landed on the cliff, did they position him like when he fell out of the building...very minor...but I was trying to notice...and how did Jack get out of the cave...another minor thing, but I questioned it...I had no problem understanding how it played our...Jack smiling as he died knowing as the plane flew over is friends had made it off the island...did we see Richard in the church at the end? I cannot recall
Vincent coming to jack at the end made me

and did anyone notice a few times on Kimmel the young Jacob boy peering through the fake bushes? it was hilarious

 

[kellyahern]

I enjoyed it. I'm not going to try to make sense of everything, but I think NSW summed it up nicely .

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I cried like crazy-especially at the dog part but I know the exact reasons for that. Maybe if I figure out exactly why I cried for other reasons I will have figured out this entire show..but I don't think so.

But can anyone please explain the reason (s) for the Dharma Initiative. Thanks.

 

[Outsider]

I felt like I watched the end of Titantic...the only thing missing was everyone applauding when Jack walked in.

I thought the episode overall was ok but there were so many loose ends. The reunions were sweet but it negated the last season for me.
Sideways bizarro world purgatory did upset me. I don't know. I guess dogs, scientists and the French don't make it into heaven

I'm not angry but it didn't leave me completely satisfied.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I knew that so many loose ends would exist-they really said so in different words in every comment they made about the final episode. There were so many loose ends in Lost that you'd probably need a month's worth of final episodes to tie them. Or more.

 

[Tiger Edge]

Yeah, I mean, I had the same takeaway....

The 6 seasons worth of Island activity did indeed happen. Jack dies on the Island, but Rose, Hurley, Ben, etc, live on....for who knows how much longer.

When they die, whenever that is, they find themselves in the flash sideways world...as was made clear by Christian, that world is not at all linear, and was (somehow) a construct made by the 815 survivors as a means to gather together and advance onwards (to where, no idea) together, since they mean(t) so much to one another.

I had so many questions coming into the season, and by the last 20 minutes I just didn't care about the answers to those questions. "We thought we had the answers, but it was the questions we had wrong bla bla bla."

But then again I'm not one to get all hung up on HOW DOES IT WORK! sort of things when it comes to magical realism. I recently watched Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon for the first time. I checked the imdb message board and of course there was a topic on "But they never explained how they fly!"
I'm sorry, do you think the writers are just purposely not telling you how they fly because they want to keep the secret to themselves? They just fly. It's not a documentary, it's a fictional story. Get over it.

I read this Gawker review earlier today which had me shaking my head:

I have taken a creative writing class or two (can you tell?) and do you know this thing they teach you? "Don't end your story with all your characters being dead." It is like cheating. It is worse than cheating! It is the wussiest thing a writer can do. And these smug dickheads went ahead and did it.

We were told a similar thing in our creative writing class when one of my classmates wrote a story about a recital in which the narrator is revealed to be ghost near the end. It wasn't a shocking sort of ending. It was believable and well written and our professor just shit all over her story saying that it's impossible for a dead person to tell a story. Uh, since when are we not allowed to be creative in a creative writing class? Oh course ghosts can tell stories and interact with the living! It's her fucking story and in her world that is not limited to our rules, it can happen. Can a polar bear live on a tropical island? Yes. Can an island sink and reappear at the turn of a donkey wheel? Yes. Can an afterlife exist in which you meet everyone that was important to you and you all walk off into the light for your next great adventure? Fucking yes.

Also, they weren't all "dead at the end" because the end of the island (i.e. - the show) and everything that happened with it happened when Jack closed his eyes forever. No one else died at that time. You could have ended episode 10 with that and just followed up the last episodes with all the flash sideways, culminating everyone in a church and the story would still be the same, and linear (which is what most of the people I've seen - not here - are complaining about, I think). Regardless, at "the end" we are all dead anyway.

Oops, I should have put a spoiler alert for that one.

 

[UberBeaver]

Somewhere Tony Soprano is sitting at a table thinking, "What the fuck just happened with LOST?"

That made me laugh. I will say that had they thrown on some Journey for the end credits, I would have liked the finale much more.

If I had to choose one LOST spin-off, it would be Sayid and Ben roaming the globe, killing people. Bad people, sure, but, still.

I would like that. But I'd have to throw Desmond in there so he could show up at each execution and try to convince Sayid to not do it. And then go buck fucking wild on Sayid after he goes through with it anyway. Shit, I was hoping Desmond was going to come in during the vending machine scene and go buck fucking wild on them for unplugging the machine. I guess I just like watch Desmond go buck fucking wild. Probably the accent.

All in all, kinda what I expected. I was disappointed in the story insofar as most of what happened over the past 6 seasons amounted to nothing. Shit, last week's episode amounted to nothing - Whidmore who? Also, needed more Libby. But there were some touching scenes and I'm a sucker for a happy ending.

Why no Walt and Michael? That's some bullshit right there.

 

[ntalwar]

I felt like I watched the end of Titantic

I felt like I watched the end of The Sixth Sense. Jack's death was similar to that of Bruce Willis' character, with the whole "I see dead people" vibe going on.

 

[Tiger Edge]

All in all, kinda what I expected. I was disappointed in the story insofar as most of what happened over the past 6 seasons amounted to nothing. Shit, last week's episode amounted to nothing - Whidmore who? Also, needed more Libby. But there were some touching scenes and I'm a sucker for a happy ending.

Why no Walt and Michael? That's some bullshit right there.

But it didn't amount to nothing. If you think about the series as being Jack's story of the island, then everything he did, from the moment he opened his eyes till the moment he closed them, it's completely worthwhile. Jack was always meant to do this, to pop the cork back on. Toss out the 65% of the fluff episodes and you'll have a nice arc that flows evenly. The afterlife is even all about Jack, getting him to remember and to let go of everything.

RE: Walt and Michael
YouTube - Nestor Carbonell, Jeremy Davies, Alan Dales & Harold Perrineau on the JKL Aloha to LOST Special

 

[BVS]

Amounted to nothing?

Regardless if you think they died on impact or island life was real, in the theory of the purgatory story was that the time they spent there was in order to make ammends or come to terms with who they were, so that they can finally "let go".

I think Ben staying outside was either him not being able to "let go", or he was going to another place

 

[The Disciple]

Simply Beautiful.