LOST: The Final Season -Part 2- It only ends once

[VintagePunk]

I agree about MIB becoming more sympathetic this episode - Lost has done that with a lot of their characters. But in a way, don't you think that Jacob was manipulated and used, too? He was clearly the less bright brother (to put it mildly), and I think the mother preyed on his naiveté and sense of duty.

I thought the two young actors did a great job. And I was right (although it was kind of obvious), that the mystery boy running around the jungle all season is young Jacob.

Beegee, the Adam and Eve cave scene was kind of heavy-handed (as was the scene where ghost Michael revealed that the whispers are trapped spirits), but I suppose they have to cater to all levels of viewers.

 

[beegee]

It looked like they were half nekkid at first, so I was thinking, when the fuck did Kate and Jack get back to the caves and start getting it on?!

Special features disc

 

[bonocomet]

As far as I'm concerned, MIB can kill everyone left on this show and it would be fine with me. Motherfucker's got a right to be angry.

Oh yeah! I really loved that about tonight actually. Same thing has happened with so many of the characters that started out as the "bad guy" over the last 6 years. (Locke, Ben, Sawyer, Jin)


edit: when I started typing that post VP hadn't posted the same thought yet

 

[beegee]

Beegee, the Adam and Eve cave scene was kind of heavy-handed (as was the scene where ghost Michael revealed that the whispers are trapped spirits), but I suppose they have to cater to all levels of viewers.

I don't agree, not at this point, especially when it isn't something they've done before. If they had to remind the casual viewer of things they might have forgotten it would be a mess. That's not how this show works and it never has been, so why start now? A few weeks ago several people in this thread didn't remember that the limo driver was Minkowski from the freighter. They didn't flash back to several scenes of him sick in bed to remind people.

 

[lazarus]

The only rebuttal is that the Adam and Eve thing might be the oldest "mystery" in the show's existence. While it's something that big fans wonder about all the time, I imagine the non-obsessed but steady viewers may have forgotten about it.

Basically, I agree with you though. That "remember THIS?!" device is always tacky.

 

[bonocomet]

Ok this made me LOL

(it starts at 1:00. Connect 4 Million!)

YouTube - Jacob and the Man in Black: LOST Game

 

[lazarus]

Only got to 0:05. I can't bear to look at that fucking toad.

 

[bonocomet]

Just skip to 1:00 then.

 

[DRay9911]

it's a damn shame cj cregg didn't say "only what you take with you" when asked about what was in the cave. that would have been awesome.

 

[Hewson]

So the stealing babies thing has been going on for a while on this island.

 

[kramwest1]

I'm still not happy that to illustrate a character's past or change of heart, they show them or turn them into whiny bitches--Richard, Ben, MIB, Jacob, etc. I don't remember this from any early episode, even with Nikki and Paulo.

The boys were decent in the episode last night, but I think Allison Janney, Mark Pellegrino and Titus Welliver were weak. This should have been dramatic, but AJ was just vacant.

Anyway, I'm bitching. I think the 2 long flashback episodes (this and Richard's) were rushed and should have had more time. The blending of the current and of the flashback is a trademark of LOST and abandoning it for time's sake is lame.

Don't get me started on using The Doors' The End for the promo last night. As if we haven't been beaten with the obvious stick enough this season.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

The only time I've ever thought Allison Janney wasn't a good actress. She was phoning it in, or she just didn't believe in the whole thing. Just my impression of it.

 

[Hewson]

Don't get me started on using The Doors' The End for the promo last night. As if we haven't been beaten with the obvious stick enough this season.

I think someone is a fan of Apocalypse Now(and The Heart of Darkness), cause they've indirectly referenced it twice now in previews, with the "The Horror" preview a few weeks ago and "The End" last night.

 

[kramwest1]

I think someone is a fan of Apocalypse Now(and The Heart of Darkness), cause they've indirectly referenced it twice now in previews, with the "The Horror" preview a few weeks ago and "The End" last night.

OT: One of the best documentaries ever:

Hearts of Darkness: A Filmmaker's Apocalypse (1991)

 

[UnforgettableLemon]

I was generally satisfied. We've known for some time that electromagnetism was going to be the source of everything; they've just attributed some of its mystery to a metaphysical doorway between life and death/life force. This is something that people have speculated about the island for some time anyway. It is a little rushed, but I guess that's the cost of prolonging the ambiguity.

I think the only thing I find disappointing was the MIB being able to conceptualize the Donkey Wheel; no matter how special he is, I don't think he or even Daniel MFing Faraday/Widmore could have arrived at that idea in 43 A.D.

Beyond that, I'm okay. As I said, tying the life-force to the exotic matter seems to me like it was bound to happen in order to explain the apparitions and ghosts. I'm guessing we might get more elaboration on how MIB's soul/spirit was separated from his body/combined with the light, but either way I'm okay.

What I really liked about the show was the undermining of the black/white dichotomy just after we'd been led to believe that MIB was straight up evil. The mommy-issues approach might be a bit trite, but again, we've known it was coming. What I find more interesting is the light this sheds on Jacob's motivations. Despite being the quintessential momma's boy (or in my wife's words, "sissy" and "pussy"), he is still out to prove her wrong. That he snapped and went apeshit on his brother just makes it more personal. He needs to prove the possibility of good in humanity to himself as much as to his brother. It ties him into the show's redemption theme and humanizes what I was concerned would be a simple demigod figure.

My wife, on the other hand, was a bit devastated. I'm content to let this be about characters and relationships, but she wants explanations. I like the explanations; though they're a bit new-agey, at least they're not going the midichlorian route.

Also, for fun:

Lost-themed rice cake snackage.

 

[If you shout...]

Another reason they made these kills was to establish that Smoke-Locke is the true villain of the series. Says Cuse: “There is no ambiguity. He is evil and he has to be stopped.”

.

 

[beegee]

Basically, I agree with you though. That "remember THIS?!" device is always tacky.

It would have been better done with a "previously, on Lost" segment at the beginning of the show (which we did not get this with this episode.)

 

[Hewson]

It would have been better done with a "previously, on Lost" segment at the beginning of the show (which we did not get this with this episode.)

Except that doing that would have possibly made the Adam and Eve reveal anticlimactic, cause we'd have known right away that we were gonna see that this episode, and when we saw that the episode basically had 3 characters, it would take 30 seconds to guess who was Adam and Eve.

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

What I really liked about the show was the undermining of the black/white dichotomy just after we'd been led to believe that MIB was straight up evil. The mommy-issues approach might be a bit trite, but again, we've known it was coming. What I find more interesting is the light this sheds on Jacob's motivations. Despite being the quintessential momma's boy (or in my wife's words, "sissy" and "pussy"), he is still out to prove her wrong. That he snapped and went apeshit on his brother just makes it more personal. He needs to prove the possibility of good in humanity to himself as much as to his brother. It ties him into the show's redemption theme and humanizes what I was concerned would be a simple demigod figure.

Well said. And I agree.

You should post in here more often.

 

[If you shout...]

Biggest reveal: all of that shit happened like 50 years ago, as per the degradation of the clothing on the bodies. lol

I am not really upset about that (in the grand scheme of things, that's a production error, sure, but hardly the biggest mistake ever; it's not like Jack does half-life dating in his spare time), but it is 100% undeniable proof that the producers in fact had no idea where at least this particular mystery--that of Adam/Eve--was going, back in the olden days. ...As if suddenly introducing, not developing, and then killing one of those characters in the span of 30 minutes (or just a handful of episodes all at the very, very end of the series, for the MiB) wasn't enough proof. Just kind of depressing to know, at least for me. Glad that they didn't save this kind of "reveal" for the finale, that's for sure.

Also, my hopes for a "Fuck this, let's nuke the site from orbit"-style finale have been somewhat bolstered by the facts that A) The Locke Monster is full-on evil; AND B) Jacob is indeed, as most of us suspected in spite of the show seeming not to want that, a total fuck-ass and John Locke of his day. If I'm Jack and I have to choose between either of those two, I'm choosing option C, come whatever the fuck may.

 

[UnforgettableLemon]

Also, my hopes for a "Fuck this, let's nuke the site from orbit"-style finale have been somewhat bolstered by the facts that A) The Locke Monster is full-on evil; AND B) Jacob is indeed, as most of us suspected in spite of the show seeming not to want that, a total fuck-ass and John Locke of his day. If I'm Jack and I have to choose between either of those two, I'm choosing option C, come whatever the fuck may.

Actually, that's exactly what I'm hoping for. Jack, a more rational "man of faith" (I'm beginning to cringe every time I say this) than Locke or Jacob, should be able to transcend this false dilemma. Do I expect it? No. I expect to be disappointed at first and then eventually appreciate the show for what it is. But still, I like that he embodies a sort of compromise.

Maybe the black and white of MIB and Jacob don't represent evil and good so much as fixed/limited mentalities and perspectives.

 

[UnforgettableLemon]

As for anything Darlton says, intent means nothing. In the end, we have to look at the work itself. MIB may have become pure evil, but that doesn't mean the viewer cannot identify with him.

 

[If you shout...]

nvm

 

[toscano]

It has been amazing! I can't wait to get the box set and watch it all from the beginning again. I'm sure there will be a lot of things that will make more sense once it's ended.

Our whole family re-watched 1-4 before 5 and a LOT of stuff made a lot more sense, plus we picked up on a lot of stuff that we missed first time.

We will do the same when the boxed set comes out.

So sad it's ending, but it's not disappointing so far.

Best TV show ever after Arrested Development.

 

[lazarus]

The only time I've ever thought Allison Janney wasn't a good actress. She was phoning it in, or she just didn't believe in the whole thing. Just my impression of it.

This sounds unfair, but I feel like someone with an exotic accent would have worked better? Especially when America won't exist for thousands of years after this episode takes place? I understand they couldn't have subtitled the whole episode but a "foreign" shading would have helped here, and the fact that Jacob and MIB speak American English could be explained by the presence of Dharma or something.

Another reason they made these kills was to establish that Smoke-Locke is the true villain of the series. Says Cuse: “There is no ambiguity. He is evil and he has to be stopped.”

Why does Boner LIE??

Dude, judge the show itself, not what the producers advertise it as. Who gives a shit?

 

[If you shout...]

Everybody who watches the show, I'm willing to bet, cares about essential story components like, say, who the antagonist(s) is(are). Even though you lately seem terrified of me for not being 100% behind every episode, I'm sure that you do, too. You're saying that if you didn't know whether Luke Skywalker was a good or a bad guy until the last 30 minutes of Return of the Jedi, that story would work? Come on, B. Am I maybe misunderstanding you?

 

[toscano]

Everybody who watches the show, I'm willing to bet, cares about essential story components like, say, who the antagonist(s) is(are). Even though you lately seem terrified of me for not being 100% behind every episode, I'm sure that you do, too. You're saying that if you didn't know whether Luke Skywalker was a good or a bad guy until the last 30 minutes of Return of the Jedi, that story would work? Come on, B. Am I maybe misunderstanding you?

There's a time and a place for "good guys vs. bad guys" type movies/shows, and a time and a place for shows where maybe things aren't always what they seem.

If you've been with Lost from Day 1 you'll know it's always been the latter, why expect it to change now ?

 

[lazarus]

Everybody who watches the show, I'm willing to bet, cares about essential story components like, say, who the antagonist(s) is(are). Even though you lately seem terrified of me for not being 100% behind every episode, I'm sure that you do, too. You're saying that if you didn't know whether Luke Skywalker was a good or a bad guy until the last 30 minutes of Return of the Jedi, that story would work? Come on, B. Am I maybe misunderstanding you?

Wrong comparison. You don't know if Darth Vader is a good or bad guy until the end of the film. It's not Luke's story thematically, it's Anakin's. And I think that denouement worked pretty well, yes. Jack = Luke, as in whiny bitch and "I've got to save you!"

Also, Lost is a little more complex than Star Wars.

 

[If you shout...]

That was a very Lost non-answer. Well played, I have to say. Damn you, Ben!

I'd rather not get into Star Wars, but you're right in accidentally implying that Jedi is a weak film because, much like this last season, it attempts to change everything that has come before simply by telling you that everything was something it wasn't. Rather than, you know, it actually being the case. If it is Vader's story simply because Lucas says it is (and that's the only way you can make that claim, as CLEARLY Luke is the main, if not most compelling character), then you have to concede that the MiB is pure, buck-ass-wild evil because Cuse and Lindelof say so. In addition to the fact that, you know, he clearly IS evil. At least in the wake of all that we saw, last night. Seemed like a cool bro, back in the ancient times.

To be clear, I'm not upset that the smoke monster is evil or wasn't once evil. That's fine. I'm pretty sure that I brought that up simply because we now know that neither Jacob nor the MiB are "good guys." In fact, they are either full-on bad guys (MiB) or pretty fucking sketchy assholes (Jacob). I am happy about that, in the long run, because it gives me hope that the first few seasons weren't just a directionless clusterfuck of non-narrative stalling. If it turns out that the show's narrative is actually "How the fuck do they get off of this damned island?" then I will be pleased. Who knows whether or not we'll like how that story is told, if it in fact is? But I would be glad to know that the first, like, 70 episodes weren't being retconned as a total feint.

 

[lazarus]

Luke is not the most compelling character. I don't know anyone else who thinks that. And the moment Vader tells Luke he is his father, he becomes more than a simple antagonist, and their connection is something that becomes the driving force behind all of Jedi, even if the "redemption" angle isn't one Luke overtly states until midway through the film.

Also, Star Wars is a 6-part saga, not a 3-part one, and Anakin's character arc is clearly what the whole thing is meant to be about.

I do understand/agree with your second paragraph, though.