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Old 05-12-2010, 01:45 PM   #91
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Luke is not the most compelling character. I don't know anyone else who thinks that.
Neither do I. I think you may have mis-read me. Either way, we're now both skirting what we were discussing.
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Old 05-12-2010, 04:27 PM   #92
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I still don't think Jacob actually died when Ben stabbed him/Not Locke pushed him into the fire. MIB has "died" or at least relinquished his human form when he enters the light tunnel. I'm guessing a similar incident will happen to Jacob, if it didn't already by virtue of drinking the punch.

I felt that Young Jacob seemed very uncertain about what his brother was telling him, as if something was nagging him in the back of his mind that it might be true. He attacked him not so much out of anger but of fear that if he continued to listen, he'd be reminded/convinced of something that's been troubling his subconcious.

I still see this very much as a paradise lost type deal where good vs evil have been waging a timeless bet and man is brought in from real earth as pawn(s) in the game. What I don't get is the mother, who made her the protector and what's her story, why is she there? Is she a twin herself or left over from a previous cycle of the same good vs evil control of the island/paradise/world thing?

Wait - something just occurred to me - isn't Young Jacob the same mysterious kid we kept seeing throughout the series? So what did his appearance to the Losties signify, then?
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:05 PM   #93
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Except that doing that would have possibly made the Adam and Eve reveal anticlimactic, cause we'd have known right away that we were gonna see that this episode, and when we saw that the episode basically had 3 characters, it would take 30 seconds to guess who was Adam and Eve.
Well, since they didn't mind making the scene suck, I doubt they would have minded making it anticlimactic.

We knew we were going to find out who they were eventually and with three episodes left, what's the difference. Showing the boys playing the game with the black and white stones gave it away right in the beginning anyway.
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:19 PM   #94
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The stones from the game at the beginning didn't make me think of Adam and Eve. Honestly, I'd forgotten that the stones were connected with them. For me, it brought to mind the whole Locke and Walt backgammon thing, and Jacob and MIB as adults with the stones. Like Thora, Adam and Eve didn't even occur to me till the mother died. Showing it on the previouslies definitely would have ruined it for me.


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Old 05-12-2010, 06:17 PM   #95
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An interesting theory posted by Doc Jensen about Mother possibly being Smokey:

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After conferring her guardian powers upon Jacob, Mother went back to camp. She found it trashed. She silently surveyed the scene and found something peculiar — MIB's Senet box. She opened it up and took out the black stone. She looked at it — and then MIB stabbed her in the back and through the chest. She fell to the ground and whispered a word: ''Nothing.'' She told her son that she couldn't let him leave because she loved him, and then she thanked him for killing her and died. Three things: 1. Notice I used the word ''silently.'' 2. Notice that Mother said ''Nothing.'' 3. Notice that MIB used the same knife to kill his mother that Dogen gave Sayid to kill MIB/Fake Locke. Remember Dogen's instructions? Sayid had to plunge the knife into The Monster's chest before The Monster said a word. Sayid failed to execute the execution before Fake Locke said, ''Hello,'' and in the aftermath, Sayid seemed to suffer from some kind of soul sleep, a state of emotional nothingness. Perhaps I'm not adding all of this up properly, but I find the link here irresistible. I go back to where I began — that there was something about the Mother/Jacob/MIB drama that cursed The Island and created a mythic template for future dramas to follow. (Unless, of course, their drama followed and reaffirmed an existing template.) Why did Sayid have to use that knife? Why did he have to do the stabbing before Fake Locke said a word? Why did he feel ''nothing'' afterward? It's not about rules. It's not about internal logic. It's about a story. And that's just the way the story goes. But can the story be changed? TBD.
Full link to the recap of the episode, if anyone's interested.

I always love what he has to say. He comes up with some interesting stuff.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:49 PM   #96
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i figured the mother was smokey when she jacked up the village & the well and that's how she knew the golden river was trouble

of course that leads to the 'how did she turn into smokey' question, which would lead to a dozen more questions.

that's why i haven't asked questions for the last couple of seasons. i just watch and hope something cool happens.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:53 PM   #97
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And if "Mother" had blacksmoke powers, it would make sense that she was the one that appeared to baby MIB in the form of his dead "real mom." But to what end?
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:01 PM   #98
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Holy shit. I just realized that I'm going to be out of town on the night of the series finale. There's a 95% chance I'll be nowhere near a TV that night as well. Oh dear god. Hopefully I can figure something out, as that would TOTALLY suck to miss out on it!
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:04 PM   #99
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Holy shit. I just realized that I'm going to be out of town on the night of the series finale. There's a 95% chance I'll be nowhere near a TV that night as well. Oh dear god. Hopefully I can figure something out, as that would TOTALLY suck to miss out on it!
Dude. I'd cancel my plans. I don't care what they were, I wouldn't be doing them.


eta - oh wow, I just googled, that's the long weekend here! I bet a lot of people are going to be in the same boat.
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:07 PM   #100
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Dude. I'd cancel my plans. I don't care what they were, I wouldn't be doing them.


eta - oh wow, I just googled, that's the long weekend here! I bet a lot of people are going to be in the same boat.
I'm working on it!

Yup - that's part of the problem. I always do the same thing on the long weekend every year, but it might be workable to sneak away to a TV that night. I'm going to see what I can do.
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:38 PM   #101
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I figured when Johnny Cash told Jake the Snake that Mrs. Bates had "burned them all" she must have been some form of a smoke monster.


I guess the island might be lousy with smoke monsters. Can't swing a dead cat on that island without hitting one.
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:38 PM   #102
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I had the same thought about the Mother being smokey....especially when she said thank you when getting stabbed
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:27 PM   #103
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The stones from the game at the beginning didn't make me think of Adam and Eve. Honestly, I'd forgotten that the stones were connected with them. For me, it brought to mind the whole Locke and Walt backgammon thing, and Jacob and MIB as adults with the stones. Like Thora, Adam and Eve didn't even occur to me till the mother died. Showing it on the previouslies definitely would have ruined it for me.
It's really interesting how the show is so different for each type of viewer. There are the casual fans who only watch week to week and then there are the totally rabid fans who could probably tell you how many times Ben blinked during any given episode. I would fall somewhere in between. Sometimes I forget that not everyone remembers a lot of the smaller details.
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:39 PM   #104
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Holy shit. I just realized that I'm going to be out of town on the night of the series finale. There's a 95% chance I'll be nowhere near a TV that night as well. Oh dear god. Hopefully I can figure something out, as that would TOTALLY suck to miss out on it!
i remember i missed the finale of 90210 because i went to my cousin's high school graduation. but i taped it
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:43 PM   #105
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Help me remember who has seen the the young versions of Jacob/MIB

Sawyer is the only one I can think of but I think there are others.
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