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Old 05-11-2010, 10:55 PM   #46
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Ugh. Forget it. I am in no state to talk about this, right now. Nobody's fault but my own. I gotta peace out until I come to terms with all of this.
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:57 PM   #47
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Wasn't it the mother who said he couldn't kill his brother? She lied to them about a lot of things.

I'd say though that MIB wasn't killed, per se. His human, physical form seemed to die, but his spirt? essence? lived on and became filed with the evil from being thrown into the light. The mother did say that going in there would result in something worse than death...that must be what she meant.

Also, in other episodes we've seen, he clearly walked around looking like his original physical form. I'd argue that this makes sense - he seems to be able to manifest as any dead person that hasn't been buried, and his original body wasn't buried, it was left in the cave. Therefore, he could come back looking like himself.



Somewhere in the final few episodes, the surviving Losties are going to be informed of what's going on. Maybe they'll cover it more then?
Great points.

It's pretty clear that the mother was right about one thing. . .getting too close to that light is not a good thing.
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:06 PM   #48
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Did they mention what in year this episode takes place?
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:08 PM   #49
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What is truth?

That's the big question I come away with--not who is "good" and who is "evil" but who is telling the truth. I think Jacob is honest, but he's only as truthful as the information he believes.

Could they really not kill each other? I suspect that was a lie. I think the mother told them that so that they wouldn't try and she could have them both until she could see who was to be the next protector. They drink the Powerade or whatever that is, and then they can't be killed by the other. Jacob can't be killed by his brother, but Jacob was able to kill him--sort of. His "spirit" is still out there in the form of the smoke monster and inhabiting whatever dead people he comes across.

I thought both brothers were complicated, interesting characters.

Of course an even bigger question is what truth about life, humanity, God, whatever is Lost espousing. Is this a dark smoke monster view of humanity--that people really are pretty rotten?

Interesting.
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Great points.

It's pretty clear that the mother was right about one thing. . .getting too close to that light is not a good thing.
What I took from it is that the light isn't inherently bad - it actually looked beautiful and pure. What seems to be bad and causes evil is when humans attempt to manipulate or use it for their own purposes. That's what the mother seemed to be warning against.

Maybe I'm off base here, and I'm the first to admit that I miss a lot on this show and am often left confused, but this seemed pretty clear to me.

Great point about truth vs lies, Sean. I think that's been a major issue since Jacob and MIB have been introduced to the story. Truth/lies/matters of perspective.

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Ugh. Forget it. I am in no state to talk about this, right now. Nobody's fault but my own. I gotta peace out until I come to terms with all of this.
Good luck!
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:11 PM   #50
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I genuinely thank you! Shit's gonna be tough, yo!
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:16 PM   #51
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Alright. A definite comedown from last week which, as I said, I think was one of the most exciting and affecting episodes in the show's run. I wasn't expecting this to be 100% flashback either, but anyways. Didn't care much for the acting performance of the woman playing the Mother. But anyways.

They threw the viewers some bones here. Explaining the donkey wheel ("a mechanism using the water and light"? what the fuck does that mean?), Adam and Eve, and the origin of the smoke monster.

I agree with those that said that the smoke monster is MIB's "spirit" (for lack of a better word). Smokey = MIB + the "light." And I suppose Smokey then just went and used MIB's old form.

Very interesting that they introduce this Cave of Wonders/Tunnel of Light/Dagobah Cave so late in the game. We've heard about the "light" before...the pockets of electromagnetism...seen the light before. It seems now that it is one of the very key elements to the entire mythology, and I suspect some people will be angered by the writers implementing the "protect the light" thing so late in the run (and so sort-of vaguely).

Ah, fuck. I don't know. Still processing. I'm glad they got this out of the way (so to speak) now so that these last 3.5 hours can focus on the people we've grown to love for the last 6 years and their situation. I'll be back.
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:30 PM   #52
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Underwhelmed.

The acting kind of sucked.

(and totally thought the same thing about the Pulp Fiction briefcase )
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:36 PM   #53
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where's Ben?





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Old 05-12-2010, 01:13 AM   #54
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That was very cool. Great explanations by everyone here.

I don't remember that scene with Kate/Jack in the caves, but that was obviously from Season 1. I'm looking forward to re-watching all of those episodes again.
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:19 AM   #55
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Vintage Punk pretty much summed up everything I took from this epiosde.

I loved this episode, but what I did not love was the idiotic 'flashback' clips during the final scene. What was that, Cliff Notes for Lost? I understand not everyone is a hardcore viewer but if you didn't get that it was 'Adam and Eve' from the caves, then too bad, you didn't get it.

If they did that for everything the casual viewers might not 'get' then we'd be watching random clips spliced into every scene all episode long. It's ridiculous that they did it now, just a few hours from the very end.


Edit: that was in no way directed at you, Thora, I just mean in general
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:27 AM   #56
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honestly, the show is good, but i just feel like we're being put on a big con. So tired of "What does this mean?" followed by "If i answer you you'll just have more questions".
That's LOST for ya!
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:33 AM   #57
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Ugh. Forget it. I am in no state to talk about this, right now. Nobody's fault but my own. I gotta peace out until I come to terms with all of this.
Jesus, get a grip, man.


So we're to assume that at some point MIB fixes the donkey wheel and puts it in place, and his original plans will have worked? Turning the wheel gives access to the light and combined with the electromagnetic shit allows someone to leave the island. Except the MIB apparently can't use it himself.

I just want to say that I've maintained all along that Jacob is a grade-A BITCH, and I feel vindicated for cheering when he died. He did EVERYTHING WRONG in this entire episode. Momma's boy, tattletale, wouldn't believe the story about his true parentage, wouldn't listen to MIB explaining that the mother slaughtered all the "others", and then puts some crazy-ass curse on his brother and turns him into a monster.

As far as I'm concerned, MIB can kill everyone left on this show and it would be fine with me. Motherfucker's got a right to be angry.
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:40 AM   #58
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Yeah, I must admit I felt pretty sympathetic towards him by the end of the episode, too.
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:45 AM   #59
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When I look at who's left, the only people who I feel don't deserve an MIB smackdown are Hurley and Desmond. Everyone else has annoyed me or is guilty in one way or another.

I need to go back and watch The Incident so I can cheer on Jacob's death even louder than I did when it aired.
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:54 AM   #60
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Vintage Punk pretty much summed up everything I took from this epiosde.

I loved this episode, but what I did not love was the idiotic 'flashback' clips during the final scene. What was that, Cliff Notes for Lost? I understand not everyone is a hardcore viewer but if you didn't get that it was 'Adam and Eve' from the caves, then too bad, you didn't get it.

If they did that for everything the casual viewers might not 'get' then we'd be watching random clips spliced into every scene all episode long. It's ridiculous that they did it now, just a few hours from the very end.


Edit: that was in no way directed at you, Thora, I just mean in general
No worries - I didn't take it that way at all. As soon as the Mom died, I knew she was "Eve."

That scene very confusing indeed. It looked like they were half nekkid at first, so I was thinking, when the fuck did Kate and Jack get back to the caves and start getting it on?!
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