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Old 05-24-2010, 11:37 AM   #481
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But it didn't amount to nothing. If you think about the series as being Jack's story of the island, then everything he did, from the moment he opened his eyes till the moment he closed them, it's completely worthwhile. Jack was always meant to do this, to pop the cork back on. Toss out the 65% of the fluff episodes and you'll have a nice arc that flows evenly. The afterlife is even all about Jack, getting him to remember and to let go of everything.
I see your point. But I meant things like Dharma, Whidmore, Sun's father, The Temple people, Eko, etc etc - those stories, in the end, meant nothing. To take everything that happened to everyone, and then reduce it to "Jack needs to let go" seems that the rest of it was misleading from a story telling point of view. I dunno. Whatever. I guess my expectations on the story were just a little higher than what it turned out to be. No big.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:56 PM   #482
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Wait...who the fuck was Jack's son?
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Old 05-24-2010, 01:02 PM   #483
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I cried like crazy-especially at the dog part but I know the exact reasons for that. Maybe if I figure out exactly why I cried for other reasons I will have figured out this entire show..but I don't think so.

But can anyone please explain the reason (s) for the Dharma Initiative. Thanks.
omg! me too.. And I just noticed ur avi.. :sad
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Old 05-24-2010, 01:02 PM   #484
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I felt like the line worked both ways. The bomb "worked" in that it returned them to their normal time period, and got them out of the 70's. And it also appears that Juliet got a glimpse of "purgatory world" (the flash-sideways), knowing she would see Sawyer again when he eventually died.

Did the explosion combined with the island's properties allow the purgatory world to be created?
That's fair. But the original intent of the bomb wasn't to get them back to their own time period, it was to undo the original crash altogether, so in that sense, it didn't "work."

Interesting question, to which I'd answer that I have no idea, but if I had to guess, I'd guess no. Purgatory/the afterlife in the way that the show was using it exists outside of the events on the island, and all of those characters would have been important to each other regardless of the bomb. Again though, that's just my sense of things, I could be wrong.

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Laz, relax it is just a made up t v show, it is not real

we are just disagreeing about how well it was executed.
I just want to state for the record that I have absolutely no problem with you or anyone disagreeing about the execution of the show. What I do have a problem with is your repeatedly used tone that people who do enjoy the show are somehow being hoodwinked by the writers, that we're stupid for falling for their tricks, and that you have some superior knowledge that makes you above all this, when, as you've clearly shown, you don't even get the simplest of events, yourself.


I'm incredibly pleased by the positive reception that the episode seems to have gotten, even though I was somewhat let down by it, myself. My issue is with the last 10 minutes of it, and the major cause of that is that it just doesn't line up with my beliefs or my worldview (agnostic, here), so it seemed kind of meaningless, to me. I do realize though that they're obviously not writing the show just for me, so I'll deal. And, the disappointment is receding with time. I'll watch it again in a few days.

Any disappointment I may have however doesn't diminish the fact that it's been an incredible ride for 6 seasons, and I'm grateful for every minute of it.


Also, someone earlier asked about the whole meaning of Dharma and what they did on the island. While they never delved further into that, what I took from it is that Dharma were just another group in a long line of groups that came to the island, looking to exploit its natural properties. The reason for the earlier focus on them is that they were relatively recent in the history of the island, and what they did directly impacted the 815 group, so, we were shown a great deal of their story. But in the grand scheme of things, they really were just another group.

I'm going to miss this show so much. Looking forward to the box set though. For those interested in more definitive answers to questions, I read recently that there's going to be a segment in the box set that will answer some of the questions.
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Old 05-24-2010, 01:05 PM   #485
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This is my favourite LOST blog/site out there and I've posted it here in the past:

EYE M SICK

Some interesting thoughts, both for and against the finale, as expected. Jack's son, like everything else in the Sideways, was a construct of our Losties to give them something they couldn't have in their real lives. A kind of false utopia, much like this one poster on that blog wrote better than I ever could:

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I think it's a little richer than just seeing "a bunch of dead folks," don't you think? Strangely enough, I am much more inclined now to see it as a kind false utopia, a true temptation, much like the "mirror" life Christ lives in The Last Temptation of Christ: he is given everything he thinks he wants, he is allowed to have a life experiment, and only by placing himself in this radically different existence does he come to see who he is and what he is meant to do. Season six has been a slow burn of this kind of experiment -- Desmond could have resisted the urge to see the truth, and immersed himself, as Eloise suggests, in what the Mirror had offered him, in fact, what he had constructed for himself. If we take Christian literally, then the Losties tested themselves, put themselves in another life, with new relationships, different outcomes, experiences and memories, all to see if the truth, their true selves, would come out in the end. That was the struggle of season six. Jack resisted it most of all. Surely, his own construction, what he unconsciously gave himself, was the hardest to let go -- his son. If he, and the rest of them, triumphed, it is because they were able to see the Mirror for what it was, a mirror, a reflection, not reality, and moving from that reflection was letting go of their desires, and achieving transcendence. That's what it seemed like to me, anyway. It felt like, in that time-less "moment" of the Mirror, they were able to really accept death itself. It wasn't just something forced upon them, but something they could freely embrace. You could ask whether this was real, or a kind of rationalization for something beyond their control, a kind of faint dream in Jack's dying brain, as the veil of death is slowly laid over him. It's a very rich and provocative solution that leaves many roads open to question and interpretation.
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Old 05-24-2010, 01:06 PM   #486
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Also, someone earlier asked about the whole meaning of Dharma and what they did on the island. While they never delved further into that, what I took from it is that Dharma were just another group in a long line of groups that came to the island, looking to exploit its natural properties. The reason for the earlier focus on them is that they were relatively recent in the history of the island, and what they did directly impacted the 815 group, so, we were shown a great deal of their story. But in the grand scheme of things, they really were just another group.
oh. That actually makes sense. However, Dharma > All the Previous groups because they brought a fucking POLAR BEAR with them! Those White Trash anglo-saxon dudes that Jacob's mom (?) schooled a couple of weeks ago didn't have a polar bear.
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Old 05-24-2010, 01:08 PM   #487
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I see your point. But I meant things like Dharma, Whidmore, Sun's father, The Temple people, Eko, etc etc - those stories, in the end, meant nothing. To take everything that happened to everyone, and then reduce it to "Jack needs to let go" seems that the rest of it was misleading from a story telling point of view. I dunno. Whatever. I guess my expectations on the story were just a little higher than what it turned out to be. No big.
My guess is those other stories did mean something but that this particular story was told through Jack. The island is no less mysterious now than it was at the beginning and each and every person who was there probably had a similar journey as Jack's. As it turned out, he was the "savior" and yet also the most resistant to "letting go," making his story the most appropriate one to tell in the finale.

In some ways this feels too safe (like a U2 concert where they only play SBS, ISHFWILF, and WOWY) but on the other hand, a 2-hour dictation on time travel and electromagnetism would not have been satisfactory, either.
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Old 05-24-2010, 01:09 PM   #488
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To take everything that happened to everyone, and then reduce it to "Jack needs to let go" seems that the rest of it was misleading from a story telling point of view.
That's not what it was though. Everyone in the flash-sideways needed to let go, he was just the last to come to the realization. Why? Because someone with a sense of responsibility, duty, who punishes himself may be the hardest to do that from a psychological sense.

I don't find that the reality story was simply about Jack's experience on the island, either. We end with his death because it closes a long period of conflict and hostility on the island. Yeah, we could have had a scene where Hurley and Ben get Desmond off, but we've already seen Des escape and reunite with Penny. It would be redundant. We also could have seen what happens after the people on the Ajira flight get back some, but we've seen that already as well with the flash-forwards. The point is that everyone is free now due to Jack's sacrifice, not just in a physical sense but free to make their own choices and live without the baggage of their damaged pasts.
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Old 05-24-2010, 01:10 PM   #489
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In some ways this feels too safe (like a U2 concert where they only play SBS, ISHFWILF, and WOWY)
Yes, totally...
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but on the other hand, a 2-hour dictation on time travel and electromagnetism would not have been satisfactory, either.
I would have enjoyed that immensly, but on The Science Channel, not Lost, so agreed.
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Old 05-24-2010, 01:18 PM   #490
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That's not what it was though. Everyone in the flash-sideways needed to let go, he was just the last to come to the realization. Why? Because someone with a sense of responsibility, duty, who punishes himself may be the hardest to do that from a psychological sense.

I don't find that the reality story was simply about Jack's experience on the island, either. We end with his death because it closes a long period of conflict and hostility on the island.
The first part - I'll buy that. Makes perfect sense.

The second part - also makes perfect insofar as the story was the story of the Oceanic pax, and this is how it ends, with Jack's death, his friends free, one staying behind for the next chapter. I can see that. That would allow for the Dharma folk and all the other "side stories" to be seen only in how they were in direct relation to the 815 pax. Fair enough.

I guess I just wanted to know more about them, the numbers, the polar bear and shark, etc etc. I think I watched the show with that in mind: that'd all of this stuff would be explained. But I suppose one could say none of it needs to be explained.
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Old 05-24-2010, 01:31 PM   #491
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I guess I just wanted to know more about them, the numbers, the polar bear and shark, etc etc. I think I watched the show with that in mind: that'd all of this stuff would be explained. But I suppose one could say none of it needs to be explained.
I get that, for sure. I'm generally cool with the finale but I wasn't knocked out like I was at the end of any of the previous seasons. Those episodes usually answered a question then pulled back a layer that opened up a whole new set of (relevant and intriguing) questions. The grand finale got away from that formula and ended with a "nice" vibe instead of a provocative one. In other words, it still didn't explain many of the details but instead of giving us something new to focus on, it tied up the story in a pleasant little package. Now I feel like Christmas came and went but Santa forgot the one thing I really wanted. (Yes, I am a brat...)
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Old 05-24-2010, 01:34 PM   #492
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Oh yeah, one other thing that bothered me, and this is a personal taste thing, is that Hurley was the one left on the island. I felt awful for him. Of all the Losties, he's probably the one who needs other people the most, and after being probably the most genuinely good person for the run of the series, that was his fate.

When Jack was making his choice, I was screaming "pick Ben, let Hurley go!" at the tv. But then I suppose that would have been rewarding him, and for his redemption story to be told, that wouldn't have worked.


Leftover Dharma Fish Biscuits go well with coffee.
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Old 05-24-2010, 01:48 PM   #493
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I kinda got the impression that Hurley and Ben were free to do what they wanted. "Not leaving the island" was Jacob's rule. And even Jacob could leave the island. There was nothing to protect it from anymore, so it was just a title.

Plus the adventures of Ben and Hurley off the island would be so much fun.
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Old 05-24-2010, 01:52 PM   #494
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I kinda got the impression that Hurley and Ben were free to do what they wanted. "Not leaving the island" was Jacob's rule. And even Jacob could leave the island. There was nothing to protect it from anymore, so it was just a title.
Yeah, I think you're probably right. He just looked so forlorn sitting there with Ben.

Eta - not that there was nothing to protect it from. There was nothing at that point, but still, in keeping with the history we'd been shown, it still would have needed to be protected from future people/threats.
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:12 PM   #495
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I loved the episiode. I am completely satisfied with how it all ended. The scene with Jack walking back through the bamboo was just perfect. I feel like I'm still absorbing it, and this is from someone who was not exactly thrilled with most of the past season, although I wonder how much that will change when I go back and watch the season again, now that I know what it was all leading up to.

One of the most powerful messages I personally took from the final show is the fact that, just like in life, there are many things that are never going to be explained or understood. I spent the past few months watching the show feeling a bit annoyed about not finding everything out but after last night I realized that's the point. We're going to live, we're going to die, and there are going to be many mysteries in between, things that will never make any sense, things we will never know the answers to, but it doesn't matter. Ultimately, what matters are the connections we make with other people.
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