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Old 05-15-2009, 01:50 PM   #766
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^ Not the the episode I was referring to though. That one is from Let That Be Your Last Battlefield.

I looked it up and the one I meant is The Alternative Factor.

"....Kirk and Spock eventually sort out the truth, that Lazarus is really two different people, one from a matter universe and one from an anti-matter universe, one sane and compassionate, the other insanely violent and bent on destroying his counterpart, even if that act results in the destruction of both universes."


Okay not really like Lost I guess but it just came to mind is all.
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Old 05-15-2009, 02:44 PM   #767
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The whole balck/white thing made me think of The Riddler.
Lokei and Bele or something were there names.
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Old 05-16-2009, 02:28 PM   #768
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That was freaking incredible. This is the theory that makes most sense to me:

 
The two in the beginning were God and the Devil. I know it seems rather simplistic, but this show has always been about a power struggle and switching sides. We never really know if Ben is good or bad and I think the last five minutes just confirmed that Ben doesn't know what side he's on either.
Locke was saved by God after falling out through a window. I really believe Locke was dead when he landed and Jacob's touch brought him to life. Jacob's interference made everyone get on that plane. I thought Jacob was creep at first, but he's done nothing but improve the lives of everyone he's touched:
Kate - saved her from jail
Sawyer - gave him the pen to finish the note
Jack - the candy bar was a nice touch. after one crap thing after another Jack got what he wanted
Jin/Sun - i wasn't really paying attention to what he said
Hurley - convinced him (and he really did convince him) that he wasn't crazy and that he must return to the island.

I think Ben again picked the wrong side when he decided to kill Locke, he was doing the work of the devil because Locke was very willing to give himself up. The fact that he didn't might just be the reason why...

his body was possessed by the devil. It explains his new attitude which isn't very Locke-like. Locke would never consent to killing everyone on the island and telling Richard about it.

The monster might just be one of the tools of the devil and Ben never really "controlled it" like he thought he did, it was always controlling him. That would mean that the vision he had of Alex telling him to follow Locke's orders really came from the devil himself.

Another thing, how would Locke know the exact day he would be injured and would have to make Richard heal him unless he was omniscient somehow. Locke is the devil, again.

This brings up an interesting scenario because if the bomb really did go off and everyone returns to 2004, Locke would have never died and the body would disappear from the beach.


FUCK THE NEXT EIGHT MONTHS.
Ok this is intriguing but then who is Richard? Christ?
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Old 05-16-2009, 02:31 PM   #769
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Again, what about Sayid, did Jacob improve his life by letting him watch his wife run down in the street like a dog?
Well Sayid's life wasn't going to be wiped clean by marrying the girl of his dreams. Jacob likely decided he wasn't worthy of such a fate and instead would be much more useful as his tool of vengeance?
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Old 05-16-2009, 03:26 PM   #770
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My thoughts:

Yes, Jacob and (Esau?) are the good and the evil, the god and the satan, the light and the dark. Whatever you want to call them.
The statue is Taweret, Egyptian goddess of mother and childbirth. If she was displeased with the Others, that would explain their fertility problems.
The thing that struck me hardest during the opening scene was this exchange:

Esau: You're still trying to prove me wrong, aren't you?
Jacob: You are wrong.
Esau: Am I? They come, fight, they destroy, they corrupt. It always ends the same.
Jacob: It only ends once, anything that happens before that... it's just progress.

This brings two things to mind.. first it reminds me of God and Satan talking in the first chapter of the book of Job. Job is an upright, god-fearing man, but Satan speculates that if all the good things in Job's life were destroyed, that he'd curse God. God accepts the challenge, giving Satan permission to mess with Job's life, but forbidding him to kill him. In the end, Job loses his livestock and his children and still doesn't curse God.
In the exchange with Jacob and Esau, Esau's saying that the people who come to the island will always destroy and corrupt, and is trying to prove Jacob wrong for presumably suggesting otherwise... that if he keeps leading people there (and in the flashbacks, we see that he did in fact touch the lives of the people who end up on the island), eventually he'll find the ones that 'get it right' and defy the aggressive human need to conquer.

Of course, being a sci-fi nerd, one other thing comes to mind. The "it always ends the same" thing makes me wonder if Jacob and Esau are eternal witnesses to a repeated time loop. Imagine if the island's history were on repeat. Time goes by, people come, people destroy, and in the end, they blow up the damn place with an H bomb... and then it rewinds and starts over, time goes by, the same people come, circumstances might be different this time, and maybe eventually they won't set off an H bomb and destroy the island. Basically it's Groundhog Day. They can't escape the time loop until they get the circumstances right.
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Old 05-17-2009, 02:12 PM   #771
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^ I do like this theory alot but again, who's Richard? He seems to share the 'eternal' quality of Jacob..and he's always the same age no matter whether it's 30 years ago or today.

Also...did anyone notice that the older couple who chose to retire had aged somewhat more significantly than anyone else? Was this because they took themselves out of the conflict and so are not subject to the rewinds/time shifts and they just age peacefully? Or maybe I'm reading too much into that.
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Old 05-17-2009, 02:19 PM   #772
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My thoughts:

Yes, Jacob and (Esau?) are the good and the evil, the god and the satan, the light and the dark. Whatever you want to call them.
The statue is Taweret, Egyptian goddess of mother and childbirth. If she was displeased with the Others, that would explain their fertility problems.
The thing that struck me hardest during the opening scene was this exchange:

Esau: You're still trying to prove me wrong, aren't you?
Jacob: You are wrong.
Esau: Am I? They come, fight, they destroy, they corrupt. It always ends the same.
Jacob: It only ends once, anything that happens before that... it's just progress.

This brings two things to mind.. first it reminds me of God and Satan talking in the first chapter of the book of Job. Job is an upright, god-fearing man, but Satan speculates that if all the good things in Job's life were destroyed, that he'd curse God. God accepts the challenge, giving Satan permission to mess with Job's life, but forbidding him to kill him. In the end, Job loses his livestock and his children and still doesn't curse God.
In the exchange with Jacob and Esau, Esau's saying that the people who come to the island will always destroy and corrupt, and is trying to prove Jacob wrong for presumably suggesting otherwise... that if he keeps leading people there (and in the flashbacks, we see that he did in fact touch the lives of the people who end up on the island), eventually he'll find the ones that 'get it right' and defy the aggressive human need to conquer.

Of course, being a sci-fi nerd, one other thing comes to mind. The "it always ends the same" thing makes me wonder if Jacob and Esau are eternal witnesses to a repeated time loop. Imagine if the island's history were on repeat. Time goes by, people come, people destroy, and in the end, they blow up the damn place with an H bomb... and then it rewinds and starts over, time goes by, the same people come, circumstances might be different this time, and maybe eventually they won't set off an H bomb and destroy the island. Basically it's Groundhog Day. They can't escape the time loop until they get the circumstances right.
I just rewatched that scene b4 reading Ur comments and had VERY similar thoughts, w/ a few additions...

Clearly, there's a God/Satan(Adversary) feeling 2 that relationship, but 2 me, it seems that God/Jacob is bringing the people on the ship (and later on Oceanic 815) 2 the Island 2 find redemption/4giveness... and the Adversary is pissed @ the fact that they're even being OFFERED this chance, and is upset cuz he knows Jacob has BROUGHT them there specifically 4 that purpose... and the Adversary cannot hide his contempt 4 humanity.

On the other hand, Jacob believes in them, flaws & all, and in the power of the Island 2 "heal, 4give and transform" those who seek & deserve it, and 2 eliminate those who clearly reject the opportunity.

Just my 2 cents... 4 now.
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Old 05-17-2009, 03:15 PM   #773
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A follow-up thought... it was almost reminiscent of the 40 days in the desert, w/ the Adversary trying 2 convince God-made-flesh that his mission of redemption was in vain..

also, we have him clearly laying out a plan 2 kill him, yet knowing he must do so only by influence, and will not b able 2 do it himself... which he accomplishes @ the end of the episode. But it's been pointed out that Jacob was just waiting, and basically surrendered himself 2 his death, willingly... again.. who knows?
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Old 05-18-2009, 05:40 PM   #774
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Two things:

In the opening scene, Jacob was cutting up a red herring on a black rock.

Jacob is played by the rug-pisser from The Big Lebowski.
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:07 PM   #775
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Ok this is intriguing but then who is Richard? Christ?
I have a sneaking suspicion Richard is on the Black Rock (that is the name of the ship, right?) and Jacob recruited him right from the start, making him immortal. You have to remember that Nestor Carbonell was never meant to be part of the cast. It was only going to be a small role whereas they have been talking about "Him" since season two and have always had the ending in mind. I think Richard is merely a pawn and that explains his confusion in the last episode about Fake-Locke.
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:11 PM   #776
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I had been thinking that Richard was on the Black Rock (maybe even the Captain) ever since we first realized he wasn't aging.
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:11 AM   #777
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Two things:

In the opening scene, Jacob was cutting up a red herring on a black rock.

Jacob is played by the rug-pisser from The Big Lebowski.
Rock he cuts on isn't black:


YouTube - LOST - Season 5 Finale - Opening Scene (Jacob)

Rock he cooks on is though.
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:43 AM   #778
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I don't think the fire kills him, however. I can't remember if he had already fallen over "dead" by the time faux-Locke kicked him in the pit.

.
YouTube - LOST - Season 5 Finale - Ben, Locke and Jacob

Deifintely not dead when Locke light boots him into the fire
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Old 05-19-2009, 11:12 AM   #779
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He also looks really pissed off after hearing him say that final message, and then kicks him in.
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Old 05-19-2009, 11:26 AM   #780
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He also looks really pissed off after hearing him say that final message, and then kicks him in.
Yeah, he realizes that someone (Ilana's group I suspect) is gonna foil him.
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