RedRocksU2
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James Cameron's "Avatar"
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
LMP
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Oh, Entourage...
lazarus
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Oh, boy. What a ride, what an achievement. Far surpassed my expectations. I can't imagine why anyone would sit there and try to pick apart the dialogue, the characters, whatever. The story is simple, but it is not childish. The characters aren't necessarily deep or shaded, but Jake Sully is, and that's all that matters because this is his journey. I can live with these shortcomings when so much attention has been paid to the exploration of an alien culture, the most comprehensive I've ever seen. There is certainly a lot of grey area between a great screenplay and a poor one, and this one doesn't deserve to be thrown in with the latter.
Jake's maturation, not only within the tribe but in his interactions with the natural world, is done with a sense of wonder, humility, and grace, so to call the endeavor unsophisticated is ridiculous. With the early exception of the scene where Jake gets all gangsta talk with the animals (something that is far worse and out-of-place in its respective film than anything Lucas has ever committed to screen), I didn't have any problem with the dialogue. Sure, Ribisi was a bit cartoony, but who cares?
As far as the effects are concerned, never before have movements and expressions been captured this authentically. Or spend such time creating a full environment and ecosystem. After all these years, someone finally made it feel real, and then used it to create something very moving at times. What more can you say?
One thing about the franchise discussion, I don't really see what they can do, either. With Star Wars, the good and bad guys had an intricate history and mythology. I don't think another invasion of faceless Earth invaders could really work at all. As I said, this story was about Jake's journey, and considering what he achieves, it's really over. No one else's could be this interesting.
Jake's maturation, not only within the tribe but in his interactions with the natural world, is done with a sense of wonder, humility, and grace, so to call the endeavor unsophisticated is ridiculous. With the early exception of the scene where Jake gets all gangsta talk with the animals (something that is far worse and out-of-place in its respective film than anything Lucas has ever committed to screen), I didn't have any problem with the dialogue. Sure, Ribisi was a bit cartoony, but who cares?
As far as the effects are concerned, never before have movements and expressions been captured this authentically. Or spend such time creating a full environment and ecosystem. After all these years, someone finally made it feel real, and then used it to create something very moving at times. What more can you say?
One thing about the franchise discussion, I don't really see what they can do, either. With Star Wars, the good and bad guys had an intricate history and mythology. I don't think another invasion of faceless Earth invaders could really work at all. As I said, this story was about Jake's journey, and considering what he achieves, it's really over. No one else's could be this interesting.
Lancemc
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Wow, Laz. Kind of stunned. Glad you liked it. As I said before, this really feels like the first real complete product of the digital era. All the tools used to their perfection to create a world and cinematic experience that couldn't be accomplished otherwise.
lazarus
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I will say this, though: comparisons to the SW prequels are a bit unfair, as Lucas was melding new technologies with a story he had already set into motion. His project wasn't meant to be so much a groundbreaking experience as a more expansive addendum of a dense plot with many more characters. He also didn't have the leisure to fully explore any single planet, because the story covered events happening across a whole galaxy. I do believe that credit should be given to ILM for creating all those worlds, however briefly they are viewed, because they really did spend time forming geography, flora, and fauna as WETA did here. And I do believe that ILM's creature work was superior to what we saw in LOTR. Of course WETA has set a new bar here that must be celebrated.
Interesting that I saw ILM and John Knoll's name in the credits for Avatar; I wonder what part they worked on.
Interesting that I saw ILM and John Knoll's name in the credits for Avatar; I wonder what part they worked on.
Lancemc
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I asked a friend who works at WETA which parts ILM worked on. He wasn't allowed to say specifically. But he did say they worked on three sequences in the film.
GirlsAloudFan
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Saw it. Liked it. The final 30 minutes were spectacular. I cringed a number of times, though, mostly involving something that Worthington did/said. His line delivery was really off in a few places, for me. Most notably in the scene when he first confronts the beast in the jungle and is shouting at him. Ouch, that was bad. I also didn't much care for Sigourney Weaver's human character or her avatar. Something about the way her avatar looked really pissed me off.
The more I think about the movie, though, the more I like it. I think it will only improve on repeated viewings, and I do want to see it again in the theater.
Michelle Rodriguez in that tight, white cleavage-bearing tee shirt when she comes to help the good guys escape their holding cell = HAWT.
The more I think about the movie, though, the more I like it. I think it will only improve on repeated viewings, and I do want to see it again in the theater.
Michelle Rodriguez in that tight, white cleavage-bearing tee shirt when she comes to help the good guys escape their holding cell = HAWT.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
I think she's out of your league.
And by "league" I mean the heterosexual league.
Not that you have any chance with those celebrities either.
And by "league" I mean the heterosexual league.
Not that you have any chance with those celebrities either.
Jive Turkey
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Her nose was more human than the other avatars. Not sure why. Is it weird that I thought her avatar was cute? Not as hot as Neytiri though. Cant wait for the homemade internet dirty pictures to start showing up
Lancemc
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Weaver's avatar was the first time the film really blew me away. Then it continued to do so in increasing measures of course. But yeah, I thought she was great in both forms.
Jive Turkey
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One thing I didnt understand: Why did we see photographs in 3 dimensions?
Lancemc
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They were intended to be 3-dimension photographs, not unlike the "3D" posters used for the film in theaters. Cameron said he envisions a future where all visual displays, be they computers, television, cell phones, or snapshots are stereoscopic.
Jive Turkey
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oh, okay. having not heard him say that, it threw me off a bit. Makes sense though. I figured that might be the case. I thought the computer screens were particularly cool. I could totally see them being that way in the not too distant future. The way they swiped info from the desktop screen to a hand held one would be very intuitive. I hope Steve Jobs was watching
Lancemc
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You just reminded me of that funny moment where Selfridge is trying to point out something on the virtual map (might have been the tree of souls) and he's fumbling with the 3D interface, and just tells one of the military stooges to bring it up for him. A nice little touch.
Jive Turkey
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haha yes, I appreciated that too
deep
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I can't believe some of you are saying there is not much they can do with a sequel.
It is called Avatar, we have humans on Pandora with Avatar labs and equipment. Perhaps we will see some reverse engineering with Nu vi Avatars infiltrating the humans. And of course the other humans will be back for the magic mineral.
After Terminator who would have guessed that T2 would have Arnold playing a good guy after dying in the first movie.
It is called Avatar, we have humans on Pandora with Avatar labs and equipment. Perhaps we will see some reverse engineering with Nu vi Avatars infiltrating the humans. And of course the other humans will be back for the magic mineral.
After Terminator who would have guessed that T2 would have Arnold playing a good guy after dying in the first movie.
Lancemc
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I don't think anyone is saying there is no means for a sequel. As you said, there certainly is. I just don't think we're seeing anything like a unified Star Wars type saga out of this. I even brought up the T2 example myself earlier.
MrsSpringsteen
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For me definitely. It's just so beautiful.
The theater I saw it it in is the one I usually go to and they have it in 2D. They almost always have the 2D option for 3D movies.
OP
OP
OrARoundabout
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I think Zoe Saldana and Sam Worthington signed on for two more Avatar movie...I forgot where I read that...
lazarus
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And that's one of the primary problems I have with T2.
deep
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I hear you, but T2 was very successful, if I am not mistaken.
with these Avatars, the potential is almost limitless.
with these Avatars, the potential is almost limitless.
Jive Turkey
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I'd like to see them stick with the same characters. I think it would be disappointing to have only the theme of the avatars as the thread running through the series. Perhaps the next one could pick up years after this one, much like Aliens, only with a new crop of humans trying to reconnect with Sam. And then a bunch of explosions. Could be cool to see the remnants of the battle from this movie show up in the sequel. Perhaps the Na'vi have become more secretive and elusive. and also a bunch of flying dinos and explosions. I dunno, I just wouldnt want it to be a sequel only based on the Avatar technology without it being some sort of continuation of the same characters' stories
Lancemc
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Duncan Jones (director of Moon) on the film:
“
I that’s my concerned face. That’s how I feel after seeing Avatar. It’s not in my top three Jim Cameron films. Am I alone here?” … “at what point in the film did you have any doubt what was going to happen next? Or were you ever surprised how it happened?” … “and did you ever wonder to yourself why they didn’t just bombard shit from orbit?” … “Would have appreciated the barest bit of explanation for the floating mountain islands in Avatar… Pumice stone full of helium? Something!”
Kind of funny for a number of reasons.
“
I that’s my concerned face. That’s how I feel after seeing Avatar. It’s not in my top three Jim Cameron films. Am I alone here?” … “at what point in the film did you have any doubt what was going to happen next? Or were you ever surprised how it happened?” … “and did you ever wonder to yourself why they didn’t just bombard shit from orbit?” … “Would have appreciated the barest bit of explanation for the floating mountain islands in Avatar… Pumice stone full of helium? Something!”Kind of funny for a number of reasons.
lazarus
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Yeah, the unexplained floating mountain thing was a weak spot.
Lancemc
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It's not exactly unexplained. It's all right there in the film, if not necessarily made explicit Those mountains are stuffed with a superconductor metal, the mineral they're there mining. The planet's magnetic field makes the stuff float. Which I suppose a lot of people might not catch on to, but I think that's why we're given more than a couple shots of Ribisi playing with his little piece of floating Unobtanium on the magnet.
Jive Turkey
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Lance, you so smart
Lancemc
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I took physics once, I think.
BrownEyedBoy
Rock n' Roll Doggie
And that mineral is called Unobtanium. Can I repeat that? Fuckin' Unobtanium.
That's just a little pet peeve of mine, though. I did enjoy the film.
I think this movie lends credence to one of my favorite phrases: It's not what you say, it's how you say it. This film is beautiful. If you want to nit-pick you will most definitely find flaws but damn, it's really a sight to see.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Cameron didn't invent the term, as it's been around for over 50 years, so it's not exactly some kind of idiotic writing choice. It's actually pretty amusing, considering:
Unobtainium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Unobtainium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
powerhour24
ONE love, blood, life
^That was my only complaint about the movie really, as a slang or pejorative term 'unobtanium' would have been fine, but seriously they should have given it a better scientific name,
Hot damn though, who cares about some of the cardboard characters (this is James Cameron after all, what were you expecting?) there's no way to describe just how he lived up to his own hot-air hype, I was pretty much speechless the whole time, and I think I actually said 'whoa' out loud when they were doing the POV flying scenes. Granted he's cobbled together a number of influences, but he is certainly now the King of a whole new world, and he sucks you right in.
It should be interesting to see what other filmmakers do with his tech now, that's the only outside thing I was thinking about while watching it.
I'll catch it a few more times at least in IMAX, there's no way you can distill this down for 2D DVD and get the full experience, there's the source of the argument about it as a work of art, but who cares, anyone that's experienced it isn't likely to nitpick.
Hats off to WETA, the Oscar is yours, regardless of Academy politics. I'm thinking back to the week the trailer was released and District 9 came out and the naysayers were laughing and saying how the $30m wonder should win the effects awards and outgross Avatar, but it puts every cent of that budget on screen, I applaud D9 for other reasons.
Hot damn though, who cares about some of the cardboard characters (this is James Cameron after all, what were you expecting?) there's no way to describe just how he lived up to his own hot-air hype, I was pretty much speechless the whole time, and I think I actually said 'whoa' out loud when they were doing the POV flying scenes. Granted he's cobbled together a number of influences, but he is certainly now the King of a whole new world, and he sucks you right in.
It should be interesting to see what other filmmakers do with his tech now, that's the only outside thing I was thinking about while watching it.
I'll catch it a few more times at least in IMAX, there's no way you can distill this down for 2D DVD and get the full experience, there's the source of the argument about it as a work of art, but who cares, anyone that's experienced it isn't likely to nitpick.
Hats off to WETA, the Oscar is yours, regardless of Academy politics. I'm thinking back to the week the trailer was released and District 9 came out and the naysayers were laughing and saying how the $30m wonder should win the effects awards and outgross Avatar, but it puts every cent of that budget on screen, I applaud D9 for other reasons.
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