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Old 07-29-2010, 11:24 PM   #436
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they died in Yusif's dream (Saito from the gunshot and Cobb from drowning). Thats why Cobb's limbo sort of reset itself and he wound up on the shore of the beach (and why water was such a factor in that limbo: like gravity in the other levels, the sensation of drowning caused him to find himself in the ocean); He couldnt exist in the dreams below Yusif's because his body had died in Yusif's, so he was sent to an alternate limbo (which consequentially was now only one level deep) . It's also why Saito had aged much more than Cobb; he died in Yusif's dream from the gunshot before Cobb drowned, so he had been in that time frame for a much longer period of time.
Does at least this part not make sense to you?

if it was as easy as waking up when the original dreamer wakes up, all they had to do was get Yusif to wait a certain amount of time, then shoot himself in the head. Everyone else would wake up and live happily every after
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:26 PM   #437
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I'm not upset either, but, we've got nowhere to go here.
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:30 PM   #438
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I wish I could draw a graph to show you
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:31 PM   #439
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:45 PM   #440
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Ok, so what you say about not having anything to wake up to if the original dreamer is awake makes sense; theres no dream there anymore to wake up to. But you still have to kill yourself to come back to reality if you're in limbo; afterall, its a construct of your subconscious, not the original dreamer, correct?
But that still doesnt say anything about if its your own dream or what happens when both parties go deeper, leaving their sleeping bodies in the level prior. The only instance this could've happened in the movie is with Cobb and Mal. They even make mention of going deeper and deeper.
So, at the end of the movie, Cobb and Saito die in level one. Sure, they had originally gone deeper, but then their bodies died in 1, thus making their bodies in each lower level non existent. This would explain why Cobb strangely just winds up on the beach. Instead of a limbo thats 4 levels deep (yusif, arthur, eames, limbo.), its now only 2 levels deep (yusif, limbo). right? Cobb drowned, Saito bled out.
Now, Saito apparently died sooner than Cobb in Yusif's dream because he appears much older than Cobb (and the only reason Cobb died was because he missed the kick and went under with the van = soaking wet on the beach in new limbo. Previous level sensations effect the next). It would also explain why so much of the new limbo is constructed from Saito's subconscious.
By this point, all the others have had the sedative wear off and are awake in the airplane. But Cobb and Saito are stuck in limbo unless they can free themselves. this is when Saito picks up the gun and presumably shoots them both. Since there is no longer a Yusif level, they return to the airplane reality.
So in this case, the dreamers were all awake and the only level left to ascent to is the airplane level.
With Cobb and Mal though, there is nothing to say that they return from limbo to their sleeping bodies in some deep level of dreaming. I'm not saying that it what happens, but there is nothing in the rules of the movie to say otherwise. Its the only time this scenario presents itself

This makes so much sense to me. Does it not to you?

And besides, if you think that there might be a chance that the end of the movie is a dream, then you're conceding that you can have a dream within your own dream without leaving someone behind. In that scenario, that's exactly what would be going on
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Old 07-30-2010, 12:09 AM   #441
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I haven't read the past two pages... but I'm pretty damn convinced the film doesn't warrant this amount of text.
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Old 07-30-2010, 12:10 AM   #442
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At least read my last post. I think that might sum it up
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Old 07-30-2010, 12:26 AM   #443
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No offense, but maybe you should see the film more than once before you continue trying to explain it to people who have?

You're saying stuff that on the surface makes sense, but overall is just a little misguided.
And I'm not referring to just the Dream or No Dream stuff.
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Old 07-30-2010, 12:26 AM   #444
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I think you're all forgetting one very important thing...

 
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Old 07-30-2010, 12:28 AM   #445
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What do you mean? There's no reason why Cobb and Ariadne (whether she's real or a projection) can go down another level. if 'N' is Cobb's 'reality', then they just went down to N-1 for a short while and came back. I guess I'm saying that if the end is a dream, then it makes the most sense to have the entire movie be Cobb stuck in what he perceives to be reality

Or maybe that was a joke and I'm retarded
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Old 07-30-2010, 12:29 AM   #446
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How is that important though? There's no reason why Cobb and Ariadne (whether she's real or a projection) can go down another level. if 'N' is Cobb's 'reality', then they just went down to N-1 for a short while and came back. I guess I'm saying that if the end is a dream, then it makes the most sense to have the entire movie be Cobb stuck in what he perceives to be reality
Is this is response to me?
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Old 07-30-2010, 12:31 AM   #447
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Is this is response to me?
ya, I edited my response. I thought you were trying to say that had relevance to the theory, but then realized I'm retarded
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Old 07-30-2010, 12:33 AM   #448
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I want to make my last point here, but it really is spoiler laden, so just in case there are people reading this that have not seen it:

 
Brrrrrrraaaaaaaaaappppppp
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Old 07-30-2010, 12:34 AM   #449
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EXPLODING FRUIT STANDS!!!!

clf
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Old 07-30-2010, 12:34 AM   #450
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I think I'm being incepted

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