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Old 07-07-2009, 07:26 PM   #91
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Bingo. Anyone not drinking the Kool-Aid can piece these two pieces of evidence and "ridiculously high priced attorneys employed by a famous person" together to find the answer.
Again "books filled with nude children" has its own bias. I'd really like to know what books they were. It would put things in perspective.

And would you expect him to hire one of Tonawanda's finest injury lawyers to represent him? Of course hes going to hire the best. I know i would
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Old 07-07-2009, 07:27 PM   #92
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If the silver sequined glove don't fit...

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Old 07-07-2009, 07:28 PM   #93
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Who told you to have a book of naked kids? I didn't tell you to have a book of naked kids.
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Old 07-07-2009, 07:29 PM   #94
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Who told you to have a book of naked kids? I didn't tell you to have a book of naked kids.
Why, that's OUTRAGEOUS!
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Old 07-07-2009, 07:31 PM   #95
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Again "books filled with nude children" has its own bias. I'd really like to know what books they were. It would put things in perspective.

And would you expect him to hire one of Tonawanda's finest injury lawyers to represent him? Of course hes going to hire the best. I know i would
I'm not criticizing him for hiring great attorneys, I'm simply stating that you see more people of high power get away with things because they can hire great attorneys.
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Old 07-07-2009, 07:31 PM   #96
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I'd really like to get Peter King's spin on the untimely passing of Jeff Goldblum.
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Old 07-07-2009, 07:41 PM   #97
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I've had about a dozen different conversations about Jackson and the media onslaught in the past week. The consensus opinion was that his death was tragic in the sense that the guy was fucked up from the beginning, but also that he's so foreign and bizarre that it's almost crazy for anyone to think that they "understand" the guy. You can get a grasp of his childhood neuroses and general problems with fame... then magnify it by 1000.

It's a sad story, but anyone who claims to know the guy have their emotional connection to his music and what was broadcast about him from the media. That's it, unless one of you is Emmanuel Lewis. Two weeks ago, a good chunk of the people in mourning couldn't care less about the guy, and that's not wrong either, but to only acknowledge a portion of this guy's life before he built his own Xanadu is absurd. Not only that, but it means that counterpoints have to pop up with just as much fervor as the love/pity thrown his way.

In the court of public opinion, the guy is guilty. I don't know how else to say it. Call it wrong, ill-informed, factually incorrect, whatever, but he's going to be as remembered for that as well as his music because it's the legacy he carved for himself to an overwhelming extent, for better or for worse.
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Old 07-07-2009, 07:44 PM   #98
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That's very well said.
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Old 07-07-2009, 07:53 PM   #99
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Again "books filled with nude children" has its own bias. I'd really like to know what books they were. It would put things in perspective.

And would you expect him to hire one of Tonawanda's finest injury lawyers to represent him? Of course hes going to hire the best. I know i would
The thing is, if Jackson was just some photography aficionado, and didn't have a fixation on children, owning the books wouldn't be very incendiary. But when the person DOES have said fixation, to the point where he also likes to sleep in beds with CHILDREN WHO ARE NOT HIS OWN, it's a very damning combination. Add the fact that he was in possession of pornography (regardless of whether it was gay, straight, or with kids), which removes the whole notion that he was some kind of sexless Peter Pan who didn't even have impure thoughts , and that is someone with a serious psychological problem.

Whether he actually did anything about it is really a side issue; he may not have been a criminal but he's someone who had no business being a parent, a babysitter, a role model, or worthy of the kind of obnoxious, obtuse praise that we've been seeing since his death.

Plus what YLB said.
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:00 PM   #100
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Add the fact that he was in possession of pornography (regardless of whether it was gay, straight, or with kids), which removes the whole notion that he was some kind of sexless Peter Pan who didn't even have impure thoughts , and that is someone with a serious psychological problem.
Owning pornography is impure and wrong? .......fuck......anyone wanna buy a used harddrive?
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:07 PM   #101
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In all seriousness though, I dont disagree that sleeping with someone elses children is weird and I wouldnt be caught anywhere near a bed with anyone elses kids, but that doenst make the guy a pedophile. His fixation, from what ive seen of the man, doesnt seem to be sexual at all. He really seems like a immature, naive, gentle person. He had psychological problems, but I dont think he meant any harm. And if he really was as giving and gentle as i perceived him, then it must've been devastating to have those allegations thrown at him and have the press treat him the way they did. I really did feel bad for the guy. If you watch the Living with Michael Jackson documentary from a few years back, he takes it upon himself to state that he sleeps with the kids. Why would a pedophile publicly put that on himself? He seemed so genuine defending his reasons for it to. To me, that shows a naive and out of touch man, not a criminal
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:28 PM   #102
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Do you have a comprehension problem? I thought I was clear in saying that none of these things ON THEIR OWN are a problem. My point is that if you have pornorgraphy AND a fixation on children AND like to have them at your house for sleepovers as a grown man AND like to look at nude pictures of kids, then you are likely on a very dangerous path, whether or not you actually committed any criminal acts. And you can't say the fixation had no sexual component, simply because of theses other materials he had. You're telling me his hobbies or vices are all compartmentalized?

Maybe he didn't mean any harm, but, you know, neither did Frankenstein's monster. That doesn't mean he wasn't sick in the head. Him talking about it so matter-of-factly just shows how unstable his mind was.
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:46 PM   #103
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Do you have a comprehension problem? I thought I was clear in saying that none of these things ON THEIR OWN are a problem. My point is that if you have pornorgraphy AND a fixation on children AND like to have them at your house for sleepovers as a grown man AND like to look at nude pictures of kids, then you are likely on a very dangerous path, whether or not you actually committed any criminal acts. And you can't say the fixation had no sexual component, simply because of theses other materials he had. You're telling me his hobbies or vices are all compartmentalized?

Maybe he didn't mean any harm, but, you know, neither did Frankenstein's monster. That doesn't mean he wasn't sick in the head. Him talking about it so matter-of-factly just shows how unstable his mind was.
Do you have an anger management problem? Cant just talk without attacking people? I understand what you're saying. you're real good at making your point (pat yourself on the back) just not at seeing other peoples. If you're bent out of shape over my porno comment, it was clearly a jab at myself and not what you had said. take a deep breath, chief
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Old 07-07-2009, 08:49 PM   #104
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And you can't say the fixation had no sexual component, simply because of theses other materials he had.
and this makes no sense at all unless you've already made up your mind about the guy, which i gather you have. So your argument is

A. he owned pornography - Who hasnt looked at pornography??? hell, I JUST looked at some boobies before writing this. Why would you even assume that he has no sexual desires? Hes human just like everyone else. Why then must his sexuality extend to children anymore than it should extend to other aspects of his life? He had a chimp and a llama too. and he owned pornography. thus he is sexually attracted to animals?

B. Fixation on Kids
C. Having Sleepovers - These are pretty much the same thing. He likes to hang out with kids and act like one himself. He's said in the past that he liked the fact that children dont expect anything from him. They dont have ulterior motives like most of the adults in his life did. He showed poor judgement in having sleepovers with them, no doubt, but in past interviews, has come across as truly genuine as to his reasons behind them. Anecdotes from those close to him and even some of the kids he used to spend time with seem to support that view

D. Likes to look at nude pictures of kids. - You dont know that. You dont even know what these books were. You dont know what the subject of these books was. You dont know how many nude children appeared in these books. The simple fact that this 'evidence' wasnt even used in court shows to me that they were pretty benign. I'm sure in your mind they were books chock full of naked kids, but that was your own decision. you have no idea what these books were, yet that seems to be your most damning evidence
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Old 07-07-2009, 09:01 PM   #105
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In all seriousness though, I dont disagree that sleeping with someone elses children is weird and I wouldnt be caught anywhere near a bed with anyone elses kids, but that doenst make the guy a pedophile.
The statement appears to be trying to rebut something I said. And I didn't try to draw that conclusion. You're cherry picking, and it's frustrating.

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and this makes no sense at all unless you've already made up your mind about the guy, which i gather you have
Yes, I have made up my mind. But you're telling me a guy who has pornography and nude pictures of kids who likes to sleep with them has a non-sexual fixation? What more evidence do you need, besides the act of molestation itself? It might not be enough to put him in jail, but it's certainly enough to convict you in, as YLB said, the court of public opinion.

My larger point, because the legal aspect is really the least important, is that a guy with these issues and habits shouldn't be considered a role model. He should not be a legal guardian of minors. He shouldn't be left alone with other minors. Would you let your kid around someone like that, or want them emulating him?
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