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Old 11-24-2009, 07:46 PM   #16
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Ok um. Am I just obtuse, is there some bigger/deeper meaning that I'm just too dunce to comprehend, or did Season 1 just fucking jump the shark somewhere from about midpoint episode 19 onward?

As I'm typing this I'm waiting for Season 2 E1 to d/l but frankly...the twin towers at the end of Season 1. I mean....realllllly?

This better be good.
I CAN'T be good because Abrams is all about shock and awe. He doesn't care about political commentary or deeper meanings. It's all superficial contrivances to serve byzantine conspiracies that are all distractions -- just like "Lost". At its core, The X-Files mythology into Season 6 was about morally ambiguous choices that the syndicate made and how this both pushed them to cover up their conspiracy with the aliens and hate themselves. CSM is very much a tragic figure and cruel in a very believable way.
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Old 11-24-2009, 07:54 PM   #17
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He doesn't care about political commentary...
How dare he?!
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Old 11-24-2009, 08:11 PM   #18
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Ok um. Am I just obtuse, is there some bigger/deeper meaning that I'm just too dunce to comprehend, or did Season 1 just fucking jump the shark somewhere from about midpoint episode 19 onward?

As I'm typing this I'm waiting for Season 2 E1 to d/l but frankly...the twin towers at the end of Season 1. I mean....realllllly?

This better be good.
Stay tuned, I think you'll find it's worth it.
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Old 11-24-2009, 08:28 PM   #19
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I CAN'T be good because Abrams is all about shock and awe. He doesn't care about political commentary or deeper meanings. It's all superficial contrivances to serve byzantine conspiracies that are all distractions -- just like "Lost". At its core, The X-Files mythology into Season 6 was about morally ambiguous choices that the syndicate made and how this both pushed them to cover up their conspiracy with the aliens and hate themselves. CSM is very much a tragic figure and cruel in a very believable way.
I agree X-Files had more heart behind it, but consider how long they had to develop the relationship between Mulder and Scully.

I like Fringe more than the X-Files right now because it is focused. When I tuned into the X-Files each week, I really didn't know what I'd get: a creature episode or a conspiracy episode, and they rarely overlapped. I'm not knocking the X-Files overall because they had some truly amazing episodes and strings of episodes, but I think it went on for too long, and there were only so many times I could take Mulder and Scully being close and then not, being killed and then not being dead. (not to mention not capitalizing on the first movie when it came out, in terms of the series)

So, X-Files had better, more likable characters, but so far with Fringe I like that they are weaving the creatures/experiments/whatever into the overall conspiracy and plot. It is well written, both plot and dialogue, and for being only 1.5 seasons in, I think they are doing a good job.

Unfortunately, network TV shows just don't have the luxury of building slowly anymore. I'm still not sure how LOST was able to take the time they did, but it definitely paid off character-wise. The X-Files benefited greatly from a slow build up. But, I think to survive these days, Fringe had to run out of the gate and leave some development in the dust, which is fine because they are doing most other things well.
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:18 AM   #20
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I agree X-Files had more heart behind it, but consider how long they had to develop the relationship between Mulder and Scully.

I like Fringe more than the X-Files right now because it is focused. When I tuned into the X-Files each week, I really didn't know what I'd get: a creature episode or a conspiracy episode, and they rarely overlapped. I'm not knocking the X-Files overall because they had some truly amazing episodes and strings of episodes, but I think it went on for too long, and there were only so many times I could take Mulder and Scully being close and then not, being killed and then not being dead. (not to mention not capitalizing on the first movie when it came out, in terms of the series)

So, X-Files had better, more likable characters, but so far with Fringe I like that they are weaving the creatures/experiments/whatever into the overall conspiracy and plot. It is well written, both plot and dialogue, and for being only 1.5 seasons in, I think they are doing a good job.

Unfortunately, network TV shows just don't have the luxury of building slowly anymore. I'm still not sure how LOST was able to take the time they did, but it definitely paid off character-wise. The X-Files benefited greatly from a slow build up. But, I think to survive these days, Fringe had to run out of the gate and leave some development in the dust, which is fine because they are doing most other things well.
I totally agree that it went on too long. One of the major problems was David Duchovny leaving and Fox wanting to continue the series. Chris Carter wanted to end with Season 8, but Fox pushed and we got the atrocity that was Season 9. I also consider most of Season 7 garbage.

However, The X-Files was truly original. I don't think there's anything Abrams does which is original -- just a zippy synthesis of stuff he likes with lots of stunt casting. His conspiracies never make any dramatic sense and his friends over at "Lost" haven't faired much better. There's no psychological realism to their work. It's just a byzantine plot. Isn't it tacky how everyone on "Lost" has a remarkably crappy parent, and haven't you found the last season of "Lost" totally plot-driven. There's nothing to which I can relate and everything's a gimmick.

That said, it's a lot better than "Desperate Housewives" or "CSI" or "Grey's Anatomy" or a lot of other crap.
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:22 AM   #21
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How dare he?!
I think it's laudable when writers actually care about the world and try to teach their audience something, rather than just feed off their desire for cheap escapism, as Abrams always does. To talk constantly about terrorism on a show like "Fringe" and have no sense of responsibility about actually trying to explain it isn't just cheap, but exploitative and just furthers the rightist propaganda machine that seeks to caricature the threats of our time.

What this jackass did to the Star Trek franchise was bad enough. I'll never forgive him for that.

I also recognize that you're a high school student or something, but even you can't be so isolated to not realize that the world is falling apart and much of that has to do with how US pop culture misguides people into continually viewing "the other" in the wrong light.

I think artists have a responsibility to reach for something nobler than just to entertain -- especially when they're making tens of millions of dollars a year that that scumbag Abrams. Even if Abrams wanted to do something more personal, I'd respect him -- said something deeply honest about his experiences -- but he doesn't; it's all so removed and reliant upon formula. With Ronald D. Moore's BSG, you get a very strong sense that he's writing about himself, especially if you listen to the podcast/audio commentaries and I even get a strong sense of suicidality -- that he's allowed his characters to feel that way because he does. It's very powerful.

It's why I respect the Ira Steven Behrs and Ronald D. Moore's of this world. They could have sold out like this guy and made more money, but they didn't.
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:01 AM   #22
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Oh for fuck's sake.
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:34 AM   #23
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I could be way off on this but I don't think Abrams has been involved that directly/creatively with Fringe, other than the pilot? I swear I read that/heard that somewhere but I'm too damned lazy to look it up

Muldfeld I will check out those X-Files DVD's, $20 per season isn't bad at all.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:31 PM   #24
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Tonight's episode (Apr 15) was fantastic--on the level of The Constant on LOST.
Peter Weller (Robocop, etc.) guest-starred playing an MIT professor which is fitting because I believe he actually teaches at Syracuse.

Just a great one though, probably the best episode of the series so far.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:45 PM   #25
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Glad you bumped this.

I tried this early on, thought it meandered to much, so I quit it.

With not much on T V. I watched the 5-6 episodes on Hulu and was pleasently surprized with how much I enjoyed it.

Also, the episodes they have, pretty much bring you up to speed.
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Old 04-16-2010, 12:03 AM   #26
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Glad you bumped this.

I tried this early on, thought it meandered to much, so I quit it.

With not much on T V. I watched the 5-6 episodes on Hulu and was pleasently surprized with how much I enjoyed it.

Also, the episodes they have, pretty much bring you up to speed.
I really like the writing of this show, you can argue about the plot, but the characters are unique, interesting and consistent.
Any other show, deep in the second season, and Peter and Agent Dunham ceratinly would have screwed by now. Not that they won't eventually or shouldn't, but the writing is letting their relationship evolve slowly--a rarity on TV. (not that I'm against anything casual, but it's too convenient to throw characters in bed together)

I like the motivation of the characters, too. Where many TV shows have the people violently/quickly react to whatever happened to motivate them in their past, Fringe's characters are more methodical in their quests--kind of like Mulder from the X-Files being motivated by the disappearance of his sister.
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Old 04-16-2010, 02:33 PM   #27
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In case anyone is interested:

FOX on Demand - Fringe
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:47 AM   #28
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So I'm about halfway through Season 1, and enjoying the show for the most part.

A bit of geeky trivia: there's an episode where the mother of the girl that Walter accidentally killed during an experiment (which I think why he was put in the mental institution) contacts him, and the woman who plays her was one of Joshua Jackson's fellow cast members from Dawson's Creek.
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:21 PM   #29
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I think it starts picking up more in the second half of the first season, Laz, so you have better things ahead of you. I've really been enjoying this season as well, kramwest.
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Old 04-20-2010, 09:20 PM   #30
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Just watched the episode with Olivia's "test" with the lights and Walter and his manifesto?

You were right, Scumbo. This shit just kicked into high gear.
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