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Old 05-23-2012, 04:08 AM   #571
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Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
I thought this was an interesting perspective (from a former showrunner):

By Ken Levine: Dan Harmon's firing: My take

Shows tend to survive without the original creative force. Even WEST WING when Aaron Sorkin was sacked. Even MASH when Larry Gelbart quit. MASH is a perfect example. If they could replace the genius of Larry Gelbart with a couple of knuckleheads like me and my partner and the show still survived, then you know it’s pretty bulletproof.

...

For a network to fire a showrunner, his behavior had to be pretty unruly. The network weighs the value of his contribution with the nightmare of dealing with him and must decide if he’s worth it. Dan Harmon apparently wasn’t worth it.


Me, I think Harmon needs to get over himself a bit. But I'm not head-over-heels about the show like a lot of the show's fans are. I think the first two seasons were great, and then less so after that. Some brilliant episodes, some so-so episodes. My favorite episodes tend to be the high-concept ones, and I don't have a lot invested in the characters, so don't tend to care so much about episodes that show character growth or watching their relationships develop.

I wouldn't go so far as Chevy Chase to call the show mediocre, but it's not the second coming of Jesus, and neither is Harmon (okay, I don't think he's THAT arrogant. But he comes across as pretty damned arrogant).

All that being said, I'm glad it's coming back next year, even for just 13 episodes. Curious to see if/how it changes without Harmon.

Edit, because I'm finding the different perspectives interesting: I have an acquaintance who works in TV and often has a lot of "inside baseball" stuff to say about TV stuff. She's not a fan of Community, but she had some good things to say in the line of "this is how it works in TV."

While I don't agree with her about the show itself, I thought this kind of summed it up. It's just the way TV works on the big networks:

For those who thought Harmon made the show he wanted to make - that's fine. You get to make the show you want to make when you're Jerry Seinfeld and Seinfeld is TV's top show in the late 1990's. You get to make the show you want to make when you're Anthony Zuiker and all three CSI are top 10 shows in the mid 2000's. You get to make the show you want to make Shonda Rhimes and Grey's Anatomy knocked Zuiker's CSI to second place on Thursdays at 9PM. When you're lower rated than every program on the competition on Thursday night, you get to make the show Sony and NBC want you to make or they'll get someone else to make the show.
Community easily lands on my lits of "Favorite Shows of All-Time". The third season is where things started to get really hit and miss for me. I'm not exactly the best judge on what is a quality show because I can't stand a lot of the most popular shows on television (Seinfeld, Lost, Arrested Development etc), but I am very choosy with what I do watch. I think there was a lot of turmoil behind-the-scenes during the third season and that's what resulted in the washed out episodes.

Community has always been really good at having overarching plots and themes that carry throughout entire seasons. It's subtle, but still there. The third season felt more like a children's cartoon where there was very little character development from episode to episode and storylines were being picked up and dropped quicker than a game of hot potato. It bothered me. That kind of stuff doesn't happen unless the writers have been changed or there's behind-the-scenes trouble. Don't get me wrong, S3 had some great episodes, but I did not enjoy it on the same level that I did with S1 and S2.

I'm not sure what's going to happen with season 4, or how I feel about Dan Harmon. It could turn into Arrested Development where the writers just stop caring about ratings and do a bunch of crap just because they feel like it. I really hope that isn't the case.
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Old 05-23-2012, 04:29 AM   #572
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See, I disagree, I thought the characters developed and grew and changed even more this season. And as I said before, a show can do all the crazy stuff it wants, and I'll applaud it if it's done well (and if it's not, well, hey, as long as I feel they were genuine with their attempt, they tried, so woo), but ultimately I have to like the characters to stick around. So even if some of the stuff the show did this season was a bit "out there" or some of the episodes didn't quite hit properly, I still was fine with it because I like the characters and I like seeing how they deal with all the situations they're in.

I certainly did like many episodes in this past season, but also agree that there were some that didn't grab me as much, but I'm a bit more forgiving because it often seems many shows I like have many great episodes here and there within their first few seasons and aren't bad seasons by any measure, but they really start hitting their stride around the 4th season or so in (see "Frasier", for instance). If one season falls off a bit for some reason or another, I don't automatically see it as a decline the way some do (not saying anyone here thinks that, but I know some out there can give up very easily on shows if they dare to not live up to some standard after a few episodes). I am with ladyfreckles in that this is one of my favorite TV shows and always will be, so I'm probably a bit biased as well, but eh .

I do absolutely think the behind the scenes mess and the hiatus definitely threw the show off a bit at times this season, which sucks. But I also think once time distances people from this season, and once we can see it all uninterrupted in DVD form and such, we'll be able to judge its good or bad qualities much better.

No clue at all how next season will turn out. But as my dad always used to remind me, no use getting worried over something that hasn't even happened yet. So as stated before, I will remain optimistic. As cori's post noted, shows have changed staff many a time before and have still survived and done just fine. Everyone will have their preference in eras, of course, but if a show is good and strong enough it can withstand any changes and still keep its overall fanbase intact.
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:32 AM   #573
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I'm actually watching season three of AD right now. Still waiting for someone to explain to me how it was a drop off.
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:30 PM   #574
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I'm actually watching season three of AD right now. Still waiting for someone to explain to me how it was a drop off.
Agreed. I actually love their references in show to being cancelled. Makes it even funnier.
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:42 PM   #575
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yeah, s.o.b.s in particular is hilarious.
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Old 05-24-2012, 02:52 PM   #576
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See, I disagree, I thought the characters developed and grew and changed even more this season.
By the end of the season, I agree, but from episode to episode not so much. Usually you can see the change happening and it isn't just something that appears at the end of the season.

Quote:

No clue at all how next season will turn out. But as my dad always used to remind me, no use getting worried over something that hasn't even happened yet. So as stated before, I will remain optimistic. As cori's post noted, shows have changed staff many a time before and have still survived and done just fine. Everyone will have their preference in eras, of course, but if a show is good and strong enough it can withstand any changes and still keep its overall fanbase intact.
Well said. I agree.
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Old 06-04-2012, 09:47 PM   #577
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http://t.co/OhsllSt5
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:13 AM   #578
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If you're not a weirdo like Cobbler and enjoy hearing Dan Harmon speak extemporaneously, Erin McGathy (his girlfriend) has started a podcast called This Feels Terrible and had him on today as the inaugural guest. She and Megan Ganz have apparently been doing it as a live show for awhile. The most interesting part was how bracingly honest each ended up being about sex and their relationship/fetishes. Erin's got a good presence on the mike, so I subscribed. Hope Ganz makes an appearance soon!



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Old 06-14-2012, 06:24 AM   #579
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Thanks, for the info. I'd definitely be interested to hear what Megan has to say about whatever, so I'll keep an eye out should she appear.

(Also, I love that picture .)
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Old 06-17-2012, 09:53 PM   #580
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Summer's here so I guess I'm making my annual appearance online!

This Feels Terrible was incredibly entertaining. I love the dynamic between Erin and Dan. She's such an incredibly sweet person.

Also for anyone in the LA area, there's a Six Seasons and a Movie art show next weekend on West 2nd Street. Google 'Pixel Drip' for more info
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:09 PM   #581
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Also, in case anyone didn't hear, Community won Best Comedy Series at the Critic's Choice Awards!
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:06 PM   #582
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Did notice that, yeah. Hooray for "Community" !

Hopefully they'll get some recognition come Emmy time, too.
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:23 PM   #583
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Art show photos-don't know if they upload from my phone.
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:36 PM   #584
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The show will go on. We haven't even seen a Harmon-less episode yet.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:10 PM   #585
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Marc Maron's WTF interview with Joel McHale is available for download today.

http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episod..._-_joel_mchale
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