Breaking Bad II - Always say "thank you" to Walt.

[Mrs. Garrison]

 

[PhilsFan]

Has anyone seen Norm Macdonald's theory on the finale of Breaking Bad? I'm not saying I agree with it (in fact, I still don't agree with it), but it is interesting. I'll spoiler it for those who want to view the finale as it is:

Spoiler

His theory is that Walt slipped into a coma sitting in that car in New Hampshire and that, from the time the keys dropped into his lap on, the entire episode is Walt's fantasy of how it should end. His arguments are this:

- Much of what happens afterwards is too convenient and neat to be possible. How does he get in and out of Skyler's new home so easily? How does he get the ricin into a little Stevia packet? Walter has never pulled anything off without a hitch before. Why would he suddenly be able to unless this was a fantasy?
- The acting and dialogue is unreal, almost as if Walt is projecting his own views of the characters the entire time. Badger and Skinny Pete hand the lasers back and sniff the money the same way because they've always been indistinguishable in his eyes. Gretchen and Elliott are caricatures of snobby, rich people who are able to be bullied by Walt's suddenly Mike-like guile. They have a huge house but practically no security, making it simple for him to enter. The scene with him in Skyler's home is shot in a way that at first makes him stun the viewer, but after a second look appears to make him ghostlike.
- Many asked him how he would have known things, like the fact that Jesse was a prisoner. He knew the blue meth was back from the Charlie Rose interview and knew they couldn't manufacture it on their own, and surmised that they must not have killed Jesse and are making him cook.
- This theory explains a lot of the implausibility of him being able to park wherever he wants outside the clubhouse, building a machine gun like that, an old car like that having a remote trunk opener, etc.
- The brief scene where Jesse imagines himself building the box is Gilligan slipping away from the story for a moment to remind us how much the mind can invent.
- In the car, Walt prays for the first time in the whole series. Who prays? The dying.
- The photo in Gretchen's house, according to some who have zoomed in, was of Gretchen and Walt, which clearly would not be in their house other than in Walt's mind.
- Would Skyler have let Walt near Holly again after the events in Ozymandias?
- Apparently there was a Twilight Zone episode where it was entirely a man's fantasy, and then the man dies once the fantasy has played out. Gilligan is supposedly a big fan of the show.
- Gilligan said in Talking Bad that it was not a dream sequence, but Macdonald insists that the author is the last person you should trust to tell you this, and that "he said everything he needed to in the series."

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

Has anyone seen Norm Macdonald's theory on the finale of Breaking Bad? I'm not saying I agree with it (in fact, I still don't agree with it), but it is interesting. I'll spoiler it for those who want to view the finale as it is:

Spoiler

His theory is that Walt slipped into a coma sitting in that car in New Hampshire and that, from the time the keys dropped into his lap on, the entire episode is Walt's fantasy of how it should end. His arguments are this:

- Much of what happens afterwards is too convenient and neat to be possible. How does he get in and out of Skyler's new home so easily? How does he get the ricin into a little Stevia packet? Walter has never pulled anything off without a hitch before. Why would he suddenly be able to unless this was a fantasy?
- The acting and dialogue is unreal, almost as if Walt is projecting his own views of the characters the entire time. Badger and Skinny Pete hand the lasers back and sniff the money the same way because they've always been indistinguishable in his eyes. Gretchen and Elliott are caricatures of snobby, rich people who are able to be bullied by Walt's suddenly Mike-like guile. They have a huge house but practically no security, making it simple for him to enter. The scene with him in Skyler's home is shot in a way that at first makes him stun the viewer, but after a second look appears to make him ghostlike.
- Many asked him how he would have known things, like the fact that Jesse was a prisoner. He knew the blue meth was back from the Charlie Rose interview and knew they couldn't manufacture it on their own, and surmised that they must not have killed Jesse and are making him cook.
- This theory explains a lot of the implausibility of him being able to park wherever he wants outside the clubhouse, building a machine gun like that, an old car like that having a remote trunk opener, etc.
- The brief scene where Jesse imagines himself building the box is Gilligan slipping away from the story for a moment to remind us how much the mind can invent.
- In the car, Walt prays for the first time in the whole series. Who prays? The dying.
- The photo in Gretchen's house, according to some who have zoomed in, was of Gretchen and Walt, which clearly would not be in their house other than in Walt's mind.
- Would Skyler have let Walt near Holly again after the events in Ozymandias?
- Apparently there was a Twilight Zone episode where it was entirely a man's fantasy, and then the man dies once the fantasy has played out. Gilligan is supposedly a big fan of the show.
- Gilligan said in Talking Bad that it was not a dream sequence, but Macdonald insists that the author is the last person you should trust to tell you this, and that "he said everything he needed to in the series."

Well, a couple of thoughts here, Walt has always had a hitch with everything he's done so its only poetic justice that as he goes back to make things "right" & its near flawless as it has to be.

Perhaps Skyler lets him in the house because deep down somewhere a piece of her still loves him. Also, the phone call from Walt to Skyler when he knew the police were listening in, he tried to get her off of the hook for what he did.

Walt is smart enough to bypass the security system to get into the Schwartz home.

He possibly had a Stevia packet before he entered the diner, and he steamed it to open, put the ricin in it, and sealed it back and put it in the back of the dispenser where he knows Lydia would go for it.

The old Caddy would not have had a remote keyless entry or trunk opener from the factory, however that type of thing can be added aftermarket to most any car. Walt probably installed it himself along with building the mount that would hold the M60. The gun mount thing is a bit questionable to me, as is the idea that he somehow had time to do all of this. But it works...

As for praying, sure, he is dying and he knows it. The only thing he didn't know was how much time he had. With or without the bullet he was a goner and he knew that it was only a matter of time. Perhaps that alone drove him to do what he did...imagine if you will....he probably saw everything perfectly and cleverly in his mind for perhaps the first time ever. The character seemed very much at peace with himself in his final moments.

Still an interesting theory though. I guess that's what made this show so great, that something like this could be written about it and actually be possible.

 

[PhilsFan]

I hear you. I don't actually buy it, and thought he was nuts when he first started talking about it (he's been talking about it on Twitter for a couple of days now). But there is a lot that fits if you're so inclined to agree with him.

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

Yeah something tells me that VG was pretty forward with the finale, after all of the twists and turns the last 5 seasons took, the finale was almost what you would have expected. Which may have been what was so good about it, it came to the only possible conclusion it could have. The ride was the journey (does that make sense?).

 

[gvox]

The old Caddy would not have had a remote keyless entry or trunk opener from the factory, however that type of thing can be added aftermarket to most any car. Walt probably installed it himself along with building the mount that would hold the M60. The gun mount thing is a bit questionable to me, as is the idea that he somehow had time to do all of this. But it works...

Just on this one point, one thing Im pretty sure I remember seeing on the second time through: the gun blasts right through the passenger-side rear quarter panel, cutting a nice swath in the sheet metal. So whether the trunk needed to open or not is sortof a minor point.. An M60 is a hell of a weapon.

 

[bonocomet]

I think one of the reasons this finale has worked so well for so many fans is that no matter who you were pulling for in the end, you got a great ending. Those who wanted a victory for Jesse got about as good as that was going to get. He lived, and he was able to deny Walt his final dying wish. And he looked pretty damned happy when we last see him. Those who wanted some sort of redemption for Walt saw him save Jesse's life as one of the last things he ever did. Those who were in Walt's camp to win it all can also be satisfied that he did it his way. He did not die by anyone's hand but his own, and it wasn't even suicide at that. The cancer didn't get him. The cops didn't get him. The drug lords, cartel, and nazis didn't get him either. And he took all of them out to boot. AND he found a way to successfully get his money to his children, with a little intimidation of his old pals as a bonus. He died yes, but he did it probably the best way he could have hoped for. And this was all carried out in a tense, exciting, eventful, even humorous at times, episode that stayed true to the characters and story delivery we've known along the entire ride. And it ended on a cool and fitting song. In all, a pretty smart way to tie things up and please just about everyone.

 

[cobl04]

Interesting theory from that dude, but bogus.

BC makes a good point too - I thought the finale was quite funny as we'll.

 

[namkcuR]

Vince Gilligan talks alternate endings:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ernative-endings-revealed-Vince-Gilligan.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/02/breaking-bad-alternate-endings_n_4030388.html

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...dings-vince-gilligan-20131002,0,4994774.story

http://www.thewrap.com/breaking-bad-vince-gilligan-shares-5-alternate-endings/

 

[namkcuR]

Apparently there's a Spanish-language remake in Columbia that Vince Gilligan has consulted on:

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/oscars/2013/10/breaking-bad-spanish-remake

 

[bollox]

Has anyone seen Norm Macdonald's theory on the finale of Breaking Bad? I'm not saying I agree with it (in fact, I still don't agree with it), but it is interesting. I'll spoiler it for those who want to view the finale as it is:

Spoiler

His theory is that Walt slipped into a coma sitting in that car in New Hampshire and that, from the time the keys dropped into his lap on, the entire episode is Walt's fantasy of how it should end. His arguments are this:

- Much of what happens afterwards is too convenient and neat to be possible. How does he get in and out of Skyler's new home so easily? How does he get the ricin into a little Stevia packet? Walter has never pulled anything off without a hitch before. Why would he suddenly be able to unless this was a fantasy?
- The acting and dialogue is unreal, almost as if Walt is projecting his own views of the characters the entire time. Badger and Skinny Pete hand the lasers back and sniff the money the same way because they've always been indistinguishable in his eyes. Gretchen and Elliott are caricatures of snobby, rich people who are able to be bullied by Walt's suddenly Mike-like guile. They have a huge house but practically no security, making it simple for him to enter. The scene with him in Skyler's home is shot in a way that at first makes him stun the viewer, but after a second look appears to make him ghostlike.
- Many asked him how he would have known things, like the fact that Jesse was a prisoner. He knew the blue meth was back from the Charlie Rose interview and knew they couldn't manufacture it on their own, and surmised that they must not have killed Jesse and are making him cook.
- This theory explains a lot of the implausibility of him being able to park wherever he wants outside the clubhouse, building a machine gun like that, an old car like that having a remote trunk opener, etc.
- The brief scene where Jesse imagines himself building the box is Gilligan slipping away from the story for a moment to remind us how much the mind can invent.
- In the car, Walt prays for the first time in the whole series. Who prays? The dying.
- The photo in Gretchen's house, according to some who have zoomed in, was of Gretchen and Walt, which clearly would not be in their house other than in Walt's mind.
- Would Skyler have let Walt near Holly again after the events in Ozymandias?
- Apparently there was a Twilight Zone episode where it was entirely a man's fantasy, and then the man dies once the fantasy has played out. Gilligan is supposedly a big fan of the show.
- Gilligan said in Talking Bad that it was not a dream sequence, but Macdonald insists that the author is the last person you should trust to tell you this, and that "he said everything he needed to in the series."

Interesting. That supports my theory that Norm MacDonald is in fact Emily Nussbaum of The New Yorker.

In seriousness, I realize this is not an uncommon interpretation to have and it does address the 'too perfect' problems with the finale (the Nussbaum piece is a good read and worth checking out)

 

[gvox]

Apparently there's a Spanish-language remake in Columbia that Vince Gilligan has consulted on:

Preview Breaking Bad’s Spanish-Language, Unintentionally Hilarious Remake | Vanity Fair

lolwaaattttt

 

[PhilsFan]

The difference is that Nussbaum's theory is more about how she wished it had gone, whereas Macdonald has been strictly saying that he believes his interpretation is Gilligan's intention.

 

[bonocomet]

(from today's ABQ Journal)

 

[Irvine511]

The difference is that Nussbaum's theory is more about how she wished it had gone, whereas Macdonald has been strictly saying that he believes his interpretation is Gilligan's intention.

I think it has merit. WW was photographed like a ghost throughout, especially in the Skylar scene and the Walt Jr scene.

In reality, he probably would have died of cancer alone and frozen in New Hampshire, live free or die.

And die it was.

It took me years to be convinced that Tony was show by "Members Only" guy in the final episode. But he was. It's all there.

This seems a strong argument to me, based on textual evidence. I'd like to rewatch soon.

 

[DRay9911]

I think one of the reasons this finale has worked so well for so many fans is that no matter who you were pulling for in the end, you got a great ending. Those who wanted a victory for Jesse got about as good as that was going to get. He lived, and he was able to deny Walt his final dying wish. And he looked pretty damned happy when we last see him. Those who wanted some sort of redemption for Walt saw him save Jesse's life as one of the last things he ever did. Those who were in Walt's camp to win it all can also be satisfied that he did it his way. He did not die by anyone's hand but his own, and it wasn't even suicide at that. The cancer didn't get him. The cops didn't get him. The drug lords, cartel, and nazis didn't get him either. And he took all of them out to boot. AND he found a way to successfully get his money to his children, with a little intimidation of his old pals as a bonus. He died yes, but he did it probably the best way he could have hoped for. And this was all carried out in a tense, exciting, eventful, even humorous at times, episode that stayed true to the characters and story delivery we've known along the entire ride. And it ended on a cool and fitting song. In all, a pretty smart way to tie things up and please just about everyone.

what about those who wanted jesse to die? #deep

 

[bonocomet]

what about those who wanted jesse to die?

Heartless people with no soul?

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

Just on this one point, one thing Im pretty sure I remember seeing on the second time through: the gun blasts right through the passenger-side rear quarter panel, cutting a nice swath in the sheet metal. So whether the trunk needed to open or not is sortof a minor point.. An M60 is a hell of a weapon.

I haven't watched it a second time yet....
The M60 is one hell of a weapon, fired them in the military, and they are brutally effective!

I think one of the reasons this finale has worked so well for so many fans is that no matter who you were pulling for in the end, you got a great ending. Those who wanted a victory for Jesse got about as good as that was going to get. He lived, and he was able to deny Walt his final dying wish. And he looked pretty damned happy when we last see him. Those who wanted some sort of redemption for Walt saw him save Jesse's life as one of the last things he ever did. Those who were in Walt's camp to win it all can also be satisfied that he did it his way. He did not die by anyone's hand but his own, and it wasn't even suicide at that. The cancer didn't get him. The cops didn't get him. The drug lords, cartel, and nazis didn't get him either. And he took all of them out to boot. AND he found a way to successfully get his money to his children, with a little intimidation of his old pals as a bonus. He died yes, but he did it probably the best way he could have hoped for. And this was all carried out in a tense, exciting, eventful, even humorous at times, episode that stayed true to the characters and story delivery we've known along the entire ride. And it ended on a cool and fitting song. In all, a pretty smart way to tie things up and please just about everyone.

very very well said

 

[gvox]

Can't wait for tonight!

Only a few more hours!

Breaking Baaaaddd..



...wait...

 

[bono_man2002]

I reckon Skyler dies this week.

 

[Irvine511]

They're going to find WW's body frozen solid in a car in New Hampshire.

 

[DRay9911]

Can't wait for tonight!

Only a few more hours!

Breaking Baaaaddd..



...wait...

I keep waiting for the new season of lost to start

 

[mobvok]

that's some bold synergy

 

[PhilsFan]

I guess I'm watching Fox 29 at 10 now.

 

[No spoken words]

Septa

 

[PhilsFan]

 

[No spoken words]

Motherfucking SEPTA.

 

[lazarus]

SEPTA > SCUBA??




gfy

 

[No spoken words]

We need an "All of SCUBA's stories here" thread.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

We need an "All of SCUBA's stories here" thread.

It's 'stories'...