Breaking Bad II - Always say "thank you" to Walt.

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I watched the finale in my dreams last night.

In the cold open, Walt shrank a plane (wasn't clearly explained, he probably used science) and then he ran over it with his tractor - this is a brilliant throwback to both the S2 plane crash and the running gag with that remote controlled car. The rest of the episode was about Jesse and Walt Jr discovering their true feelings for each other.

Bravo, Vince Gilligan! Another triumph.
 
cobl04 said:
Really?

His dad is a meth kingpin, indirectly and directly responsible for the deaths of probably a few hundred people.

Pretty sure if that was my dad I'd react the same way.
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Yea, really. Morality isn't all that it's made out to be on TV. I'm pretty sure no criminal (who loved/supported/was good to his family) has ever been turned in or shunned by them. People mostly care how their loved ones treat them. Walt has always been an amazing father to Flynn, which is why the kid worshiped him so much.

So yea, I think the writers contrived his reaction a bit because it conveniently ties in with the whole downfall of Walt's kingdom theme, and the irony of losing his family because of his actions (which he took, at least in his head, for them in the first place).
 
I have to be honest, if I found out my Dad was lying to me about being a meth dealer who directly or indirectly killed multiple people, including an Uncle I worshipped, plus, I'd have just watched him steal my baby sister after a physical confrontation with my Mom.....I'd never speak to him again, no matter how I felt about him before.

To me, any other reaction is absurd. Any other reaction is what would be, to me, contrived. But maybe I'm just really anti-drug dealing and murder, I don't know.
 
I watched part of the marathon last night, Walter had moved into the apartment, Saul was offering him tidbits of wisdom like "there's other fish in the sea" and he goes on to name Thai women, Russian women, etc., who'd apparently be happy just to be in America. The look Walt gives him, of course, you get the sense that Saul has intimate knowledge on the subject.

In the wrong hands this material wouldn't have been so funny. Odenkirk, along with everyone else on the show, was perfectly cast for their part.
 
youarenotimmune said:
Yea, really. Morality isn't all that it's made out to be on TV. I'm pretty sure no criminal (who loved/supported/was good to his family) has ever been turned in or shunned by them. People mostly care how their loved ones treat them. Walt has always been an amazing father to Flynn, which is why the kid worshiped him so much.

So yea, I think the writers contrived his reaction a bit because it conveniently ties in with the whole downfall of Walt's kingdom theme, and the irony of losing his family because of his actions (which he took, at least in his head, for them in the first place).
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Not that it needs restating..but did he really do it for them? Or is it more accurately his own ego, that he wanted to die the martyr/savior of the family, and have them think of him in that light forever?

Do you think he would have been satisfied dying having known the love of his children right up to the end, and vice versa, even if that meant they lived a bit more frugally under the support of a single mom? Was $80 Million what they really needed, or did they need their father? He doesn't seem to get this at all, and it's sad.

Just how bad did he think life would be with a working mom, and an aunt and uncle who were also both very supportive?

He thinks in his twisted morality that it's all about providing for his kids and family. But in reality, his true motives are so much more transparently selfish than that. And I think Jr can't reconcile that. All he would want out of his dying father is the dying father who he thought he could trust, not one who has so horribly betrayed the family.

Now...do I think that Jr's reaction is a bit much? No, but I don't buy that he necessarily thinks his father caused the deaths of hundreds of people - even indirectly - and so this is a natural reaction, either. He hasn't been watching the thing unfold as we have, so he's probably only aware of a couple...none the least of which is his uncle Hank. But, his reaction is in line with what we've seen from his character: highly emotional and very black and white/right and wrong. There isn't alot of grey area in Jr's makeup. I think his reaction fits.

eta: NSW's point about him witnessing Walt's taking of his sister is a HUGE one..I don't want to get into it too much personally but this is a huge deal in this kind of mom vs dad battle.
 
gvox said:
Not that it needs restating..but did he really do it for them? Or is it more accurately his own ego, that he wanted to die the martyr/savior of the family, and have them think of him in that light forever?
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I know, that's why I wrote "the actions he took for them, at least in his head". Whatever he's done hasn't been completely for his family; his own insecurities and tattered ego from the whole Gray Matter affair certainly played a lot into it.

gvox said:
His reaction is in line with what we've seen from his character: highly emotional and very black and white/right and wrong. There isn't alot of grey area in Jr's makeup. I think his reaction fits.
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Yea, that makes a little more sense.
 
I checked out the marathon too, here and there and was reminded that those early seasons were definitely weaker than the later seasons. For me, the series didn't really become great until the Gus and Mike storyline showed up. I certainly enjoyed it before then, but it really got going strong once Gus was involved and has maintained that momentum ever since.

Pretty much the opposite of most series. Where the earlier seasons of most other great dramas were the best and fizzled a bit as they went on. I think BB has become a better show as Walt's spiral has developed.

No spoken words said:
I have to be honest, if I found out my Dad was lying to me about being a meth dealer who directly or indirectly killed multiple people, including an Uncle I worshipped, plus, I'd have just watched him steal my baby sister after a physical confrontation with my Mom.....I'd never speak to him again, no matter how I felt about him before.

To me, any other reaction is absurd. Any other reaction is what would be, to me, contrived. But maybe I'm just really anti-drug dealing and murder, I don't know.
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You're fucking nuts.

And by "fucking nuts", I mean 100% right.

Of all the heavily contrived plot devices/character motivations in BB, I think Flynn being pissed at Walt is about as far from one of them as possible. Objectively, he's a fucking asshole that deserves to die. His son SHOULD be more than pissed at him. His son is not part of his 'mafia'.

In fairness, Walt (as written and performed) is a bit all over the place. He would play more thoroughly believable if he had a mental illness.

Personally, I believe this is because Cranston evokes empathy in the way he plays the scenes. Not quite ever selling the total ruthlessness, but only in certain scenes. I've never quite bought him as evil genius because of this. I think he's definitely soft. And I think we might see that in the series finale w/r/t to his potential dealing with Jessie.

Cobbler is looking for some potential light at the end of the tunnel and as far I'm concerned this is where it would be. The dramatic irony of Walt 'saving' Jessie, intentionally or unintentionally. And if I was writing it, I would do it intentionally (after some extremely awkward confrontation). A strangely redemptive scene and one last time for everyone to ask "am I really supposed to hate this guy or not?" In the same manner Walt made that phone call and tried to get Skylar off the hook. Sure, Walt wants Jessie dead but he was never willing to do it himself. And let's not forget, for all intents and purposes, this is his other 'son'. Walt 'saving' him despite Jessie loathing his guts (and needing his help) has all the ingredients of the kind of conflicted, complicated drama that the show goes for every time. So I think maybe it happens.
 
For your finale parties:

731mkh.jpg
 
The craziest prediction I can think of is that Elliot and Gretchen adopt Brock and die soon after due to Walt ricin poisoning them.

I think the DEA finds the Walt DVD and arrests Marie as a conspirator in Hank's meth empire.

I think Walt kills the Nazis but Jesse is already dead via suicide.

I don't have a guess as to how Walt ends up.
 
U2DMfan said:
I checked out the marathon too, here and there and was reminded that those early seasons were definitely weaker than the later seasons. For me, the series didn't really become great until the Gus and Mike storyline showed up. I certainly enjoyed it before then, but it really got going strong once Gus was involved and has maintained that momentum ever since.

Pretty much the opposite of most series. Where the earlier seasons of most other great dramas were the best and fizzled a bit as they went on. I think BB has become a better show as Walt's spiral has developed.



You're fucking nuts.

And by "fucking nuts", I mean 100% right.

Of all the heavily contrived plot devices/character motivations in BB, I think Flynn being pissed at Walt is about as far from one of them as possible. Objectively, he's a fucking asshole that deserves to die. His son SHOULD be more than pissed at him. His son is not part of his 'mafia'.

In fairness, Walt (as written and performed) is a bit all over the place. He would play more thoroughly believable if he had a mental illness.

Personally, I believe this is because Cranston evokes empathy in the way he plays the scenes. Not quite ever selling the total ruthlessness, but only in certain scenes. I've never quite bought him as evil genius because of this. I think he's definitely soft. And I think we might see that in the series finale w/r/t to his potential dealing with Jessie.

Cobbler is looking for some potential light at the end of the tunnel and as far I'm concerned this is where it would be. The dramatic irony of Walt 'saving' Jessie, intentionally or unintentionally. And if I was writing it, I would do it intentionally (after some extremely awkward confrontation). A strangely redemptive scene and one last time for everyone to ask "am I really supposed to hate this guy or not?" In the same manner Walt made that phone call and tried to get Skylar off the hook. Sure, Walt wants Jessie dead but he was never willing to do it himself. And let's not forget, for all intents and purposes, this is his other 'son'. Walt 'saving' him despite Jessie loathing his guts (and needing his help) has all the ingredients of the kind of conflicted, complicated drama that the show goes for every time. So I think maybe it happens.
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that's pretty good

I don't hate Jesse, I just prefer that the writers stay true to the character

this series has been as good as it is, based primarily on the strength of the writing. Watching parts of the marathon, there was a period, after Jane died that Jesse got sober for about 4,5? episodes seemed like he could get his life, a life on track. Well, it did not last long. Looking back, time and time again Walt had gone out of his way to protect and help Jesse. They have written Walt, first as a dying man trying to leave a financial windfall for his family, then next as ego driven meth manufacturer. But the family man has always been the dominant person, even is season 5. Walt would have given up everything, the 80 million to save Hank, and taken the fall and died in jail to protect Hank (Jesse) and Walt's family. Why did he finally change on Jesse? Because Jesse put Walt's family in danger for their lives and for sure his flipping would put Skyler in jail and leave Jr and Holly in effect orphans.

And why, over Brock being made sick so Jesse would get off his ass before Gus killed Walt and his family. I have no idea what the writers will do with this last 75 minutes. But Walt leaving Jesse alive to be a witness to put Skyler in prison makes no sense. And if Jesse told Walt he was sorry, Walt would be a fool to trust him. Why? because he is an addict. and sometime down the road he will get high and spill all, like he did with Jane.

I suppose Lydia could have Skyler taken out, because, "she saw my face."
That would put Walt on Lydia and Uncle Jack's crew. With Skyler dead, less need for Jesse to die. I always expected Walt to be taken out by his cancer. Most everyone I know has gone out within 6 months to 2 years max.
Not everyone gets the Steve Job's slow ride.
 
Other than a relapse around the end of Season 3 and beginning of Season 4, hasn't Jesse been clean since the second season finale?
 
Just one day to go! :hyper:

There's a watch party at my university. It'll be like watching a movie on the big screen in a cinema filled with BB fanatics....can't wait! :hyper:
 
I had a dream that Walter, dying after the final confrontation with the Nazis, was able to free Jesse and give him the lotto ticket with coordinates to Hank and Gomez. He asked Jesse to tell the DEA what happened so he would be cleared of the murders, which would also take pressure off of his family. Jesse goes off and leaves Walt to die in peace....
 
deep said:
I have no idea what the writers will do with this last 75 minutes. But Walt leaving Jesse alive to be a witness to put Skyler in prison makes no sense. And if Jesse told Walt he was sorry, Walt would be a fool to trust him. Why? because he is an addict. and sometime down the road he will get high and spill all, like he did with Jane.
Click to expand...

All valid. I was just searching for a theory that had a ray of light.

Looking pretty bleak otherwise.
 
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