MsPurrl
Blue Crack Supplier
Well, guys . . . . what next? They find earth, but it's post-apocalyptic?? I thought that Starbuck would have thrown a hissy when she learned that Sam is a Cylon. So when does "the next season" begin, 2009?
Battlestar Galactica Seasons 4 & 4.5
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Here's my rampant speculation:
Humanity originally came from Earth, consistent with our reality, and Earth devolved into a global nuclear holocaust, consistent with our real fears. A group of humans from Earth fled the war, released that beacon that inadvertently poisoned all those Cylons if they needed to find Earth again, built that Temple of the Five on that now-destroyed algae planet as another clue back, discovered and lived Kobol, but, as population grew they couldn't get along again, and, as such, spread to the Twelve Colonies.
In other words, the "13th colony" is, instead, the urheimat of humanity, while the memory of Earth and Kobol became little more than rampant myth with a small hint of reality. At least 3,000 years passed since they fled Earth, because that was the age of the virus that poisoned all those Cylons. Considering what little we know about the history of our own past 3,000 years ago, it is unsurprising that the knowledge of their own past is mythological and speculative.
There's still an awful lot left to find out in the second half of this season in 2009, such as the relation of "the gods" and the prophecies to humanity and the Cylons, the reason behind Virtual Six/Virtual Baltar, etc., the relationship between Kara and the prophecy that she would be the cause of the destruction of humanity, not to mention still how she "died" and resurrected with a ship that gave the location to Earth, the relationship between the humans and the Cylons altogether, the identity of the Fifth Cylon and his/her/its importance, and, above all, now that they know Earth to be a radioactive wasteland, where do they go from here.
It's a long wait until we get to find out what's next, but, honestly, I'm a bit relieved. I have an awful lot to do, and the last thing I need is for highly addictive TV shows to get in my way. Now that BSG is over for now, I have no reason to watch any TV at all!
Humanity originally came from Earth, consistent with our reality, and Earth devolved into a global nuclear holocaust, consistent with our real fears. A group of humans from Earth fled the war, released that beacon that inadvertently poisoned all those Cylons if they needed to find Earth again, built that Temple of the Five on that now-destroyed algae planet as another clue back, discovered and lived Kobol, but, as population grew they couldn't get along again, and, as such, spread to the Twelve Colonies.
In other words, the "13th colony" is, instead, the urheimat of humanity, while the memory of Earth and Kobol became little more than rampant myth with a small hint of reality. At least 3,000 years passed since they fled Earth, because that was the age of the virus that poisoned all those Cylons. Considering what little we know about the history of our own past 3,000 years ago, it is unsurprising that the knowledge of their own past is mythological and speculative.
There's still an awful lot left to find out in the second half of this season in 2009, such as the relation of "the gods" and the prophecies to humanity and the Cylons, the reason behind Virtual Six/Virtual Baltar, etc., the relationship between Kara and the prophecy that she would be the cause of the destruction of humanity, not to mention still how she "died" and resurrected with a ship that gave the location to Earth, the relationship between the humans and the Cylons altogether, the identity of the Fifth Cylon and his/her/its importance, and, above all, now that they know Earth to be a radioactive wasteland, where do they go from here.
It's a long wait until we get to find out what's next, but, honestly, I'm a bit relieved. I have an awful lot to do, and the last thing I need is for highly addictive TV shows to get in my way. Now that BSG is over for now, I have no reason to watch any TV at all!
Another speculation:
It's not "our Earth." It's the "Earth" of the 13th tribe and the myths of Kobol. The 13th tribe destroyed itself in a nuclear holocaust, so that's why it no longer exists.
Kara Thrace, in her claim, saw "our Earth," and we got to see planets, the Moon, and she claims to have seen civilization, while also seeing the continents to confirm that it is, indeed, our Earth. This time around, we didn't see any continents; just clouds and a blue sky, no Moon and no solar system. Want to bet that this is what we'll discover in 2009--that their "discovery" is anything but? And will it be up to the "Fifth Cylon" to find the "real" Earth?
I guess it could go either way!
It's not "our Earth." It's the "Earth" of the 13th tribe and the myths of Kobol. The 13th tribe destroyed itself in a nuclear holocaust, so that's why it no longer exists.
Kara Thrace, in her claim, saw "our Earth," and we got to see planets, the Moon, and she claims to have seen civilization, while also seeing the continents to confirm that it is, indeed, our Earth. This time around, we didn't see any continents; just clouds and a blue sky, no Moon and no solar system. Want to bet that this is what we'll discover in 2009--that their "discovery" is anything but? And will it be up to the "Fifth Cylon" to find the "real" Earth?
I guess it could go either way!
I'm leaning towards my first theory now, though. A fellow BSG fanatic created this comparison photo, I've found, of the Brooklyn Bridge:
And going from Earth to Kobol and the Twelve Colonies and back again ad infinitum would fit perfectly with what the Cylon Hybrids have said in the past about everything being cyclical. Do humans continually go through cycles of creation and destruction that make them little more than puppets at the hands of the gods?
Enough. I've thought about this too much. I'll leave the rest for 2009...heh.
And going from Earth to Kobol and the Twelve Colonies and back again ad infinitum would fit perfectly with what the Cylon Hybrids have said in the past about everything being cyclical. Do humans continually go through cycles of creation and destruction that make them little more than puppets at the hands of the gods?
Enough. I've thought about this too much. I'll leave the rest for 2009...heh.
MsPurrl
Blue Crack Supplier
Thanks for your thoughts, melon--and for the comparison picture. Makes sense to me!
No spoken words
Blue Crack Supplier
I am from NYC and maybe that's why it was immediately obvious to me that it was the Brooklyn Bridge.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
I'm actually living in Brooklyn right now, go over that bridge every few days, and I completely missed that it's what they were going for.
There is additional evidence that it may not be "Earth" is if you look at the original "Battlestar Galactica." In the original BSG, the "Beings of Light" (the "gods" in the current BSG? The five beings that D'Anna saw in the Temple of Five were very "light," after all.) were supposedly leading the humans to Earth, when, in fact, they were really feeding them coordinates to a planet Terra, which was threatened with nuclear annihilation (!). Considering that, in the current Battlestar Galactica, they found this planet on the basis of prophecies and Kara's supernatural experience, this may very well be a planet on par with "Terra" in the original BSG, which was initially thought to be Earth too. In the original, after they have completed their mission on Terra, they are then told that they are heading in the right direction on their way to Earth. "The gods," as mysterious as they are (and if they are even "gods" at all), may have a lot of secrets revealed about them on this mysterious planet, if it isn't Earth.
Nonetheless, it should be remembered that the BSG reimagining does take some details from the original BSG, but they have, in no way, ever been burdened by it. I guess this mid-season finale is a lot more open-ended than it initially appears, and that's the key to a good cliffhanger, I'd say.
Nonetheless, it should be remembered that the BSG reimagining does take some details from the original BSG, but they have, in no way, ever been burdened by it. I guess this mid-season finale is a lot more open-ended than it initially appears, and that's the key to a good cliffhanger, I'd say.
No spoken words
Blue Crack Supplier
But if they'd have shown burnt out remnants of Hunt's Point, you'd have recognized that immediately. Enjoy NYC, it makes me sick that you're there.
Melon - yes, it's a good cliffhanger indeed.
More speculation:
The fifth and last of the "Final Five" cylons is someone we have encountered in the show, but has long since died, for whatever reason. He/she (my guesses are that's it's female, for demographic purposes) was resurrected back on Earth (or "Terra") and has been luring the BSG crew to this planet all along, and has been the one instigating all the visions. I think we'll discover that much of those visions have been little more than a ruse for some larger purpose.
The Fifth Cylon? Admiral Cain. Wouldn't that be interesting?
The fifth and last of the "Final Five" cylons is someone we have encountered in the show, but has long since died, for whatever reason. He/she (my guesses are that's it's female, for demographic purposes) was resurrected back on Earth (or "Terra") and has been luring the BSG crew to this planet all along, and has been the one instigating all the visions. I think we'll discover that much of those visions have been little more than a ruse for some larger purpose.
The Fifth Cylon? Admiral Cain. Wouldn't that be interesting?
deep
Blue Crack Addict
This may lend a little credence to your theory
some one is missing at the table.
Ohhhh. I just thought of another answer as to who the last Cylon is, and it is in the exact same vein as my hypothesis with the last Cylon being someone deceased and female.
Ellen Tigh.
Coincidentally, I thought of this even before seeing that picture/diagram above, which is why I came back here. And considering Saul is looking right at that empty space next to him, with that same kind of lost and longing face he always makes when thinking about her, not to mention that that cup probably holds something alcoholic (and we know that's she's quite the lush), I'm thinking it could very well be her after all.
Ellen Tigh.
Coincidentally, I thought of this even before seeing that picture/diagram above, which is why I came back here. And considering Saul is looking right at that empty space next to him, with that same kind of lost and longing face he always makes when thinking about her, not to mention that that cup probably holds something alcoholic (and we know that's she's quite the lush), I'm thinking it could very well be her after all.
No spoken words
Blue Crack Supplier
I thought Tigh was just looking for Elijah.
Passover FTW.
Passover FTW.
Okay...here's where I'm going to tie everything I've said in together, for my final "theory of everything" for BSG:
--------------------------------
The robotic Cylons, in keeping with the mythos of the show, were indeed created by the humans of the Twelve Colonies. As we've seen in "Razor," the original robotic Cylons were an artificial intelligence gone awry, and, after the first Cylon War, they retreated into obscurity.
The Final Five, being "fundamentally different" and in keeping with the mythos that they have "been to Earth," are an advanced form of human being (artificial intelligence?) that was created on the planet that they just landed on. The basestar Hybrids continually talk about everything having "happened before," so it is possible that the "Final Five" species were created here by humans, much as the mechanical Cylons were created by the Twelve Colonies. Equally cyclical, the Final Five species revolted and destroyed Earth in a global war, while a group of surviving humans packed up and left the planet in search for a new home, Kobol, and the Twelve Colonies. It is possible that the humans who left there and the humanoid "Final Five" species battled on Kobol, where they had their last stand, and, triumphantly, the victorious humans left for the Twelve Colonies.
Between Kobol and up to the time of the Twelve Colonies, the Final Five-types continually searched for them, looking for revenge or something of the sort, eventually discovering them shortly before the Cylon War. This is the timeframe where Saul Tigh comes into the picture, according to Adm. Adama. However, since there were so few of them and they were in no position to take on 20 billion people on their own, they instead discovered the robotic Cylons, co-opted them, and "evolved" them from the standard robotic Cylon Centurions that we see in "Razor" into the regenerative, highly-sentient Cylons we see now, in addition to using their knowledge to create the seven humanoid Cylon models as a fusion between them and the robotic Cylons, using 3,000 year old Earth DNA captured from their original war.
Four of the Final Five are, as expected, sleeper agents, but, even as they are increasingly aware of who they are, they are not fully activated. The fifth, as I believe now, is Ellen Tigh, but she was not present to become the Fifth by the end of last season, because she was killed. Or so we believe. It is my guess that Ellen, in keeping with a prophecy on the show...
"The fifth and final Cylon remains hidden, longing to be forgiven for some type of trespass, but will experience suffering in the process."
The "trespass" was her betrayal of Saul on New Caprica that got her killed. Couple this with the fact that, although she is dead, she appears repeatedly in visions on the show (how many deceased characters have been given this privilege? None, except Ellen.), and also, if you listen to the end of the following "hiatus teaser" that was aired on Sci-Fi after the mid-season finale...
YouTube - Battlestar Galactica Hiatus Teaser
...it sounds like Col. Tigh, in shock, saying, "You're the fifth?" Who could give him this level of shock? His dead wife, Ellen. Ellen, after being killed on New Caprica, was regenerated and has been hiding out back on the home planet, luring the BSG crew there to believe that it is Earth, and using some unknown means to manipulate people with dreams and visions, which I think will be answered in 2009.
Which leads me to my hypothesis that this is not Earth, which I base partly on what happened in the original "Battlestar Galactica" of the late 1970s. In that series, everyone had been lured to a planet that they believed to be Earth called "Terra" by "The Beings of Light," where their mission was to avert the planet's annihilation by nuclear war. They succeed, and then they are told that it is, indeed, not Earth, but that they are heading in the right direction.
In relation to the new series and the "Terra" hypothesis, the BSG crew has been heading towards "Earth" mainly on the basis of visions and other supernatural experiences, in addition to a 3,000 year old beacon of unknown origin, and a cryptic temple on the now-destroyed "Algae Planet." Considering how improbable it is for humans to have done either, I'm guessing that these were created and left by the "Final Five"-types to lure them to this planet "Terra" (or whatever), not to mention that all the visions and Kara Thrace's supernatural experiences were just as orchestrated to lure them to this planet that they believe to be Earth. This planet may be aptly described as the first planet that Earth humans colonized after leaving, and these Final Five-types were created for much of the same purposes as the mechanical Cylons were in relation to the Twelve Colonies, but, instead, were highly intelligent, which led them to the nuclear annihilation of everyone on the planet that they all just landed on.
I imagine that the last ten episodes of this season, starting in 2009, will involve the discovery of that Fifth Cylon on that planet, which will lead to the other Four being "awakened" and becoming completely evil. The hiatus teaser shows Saul pointing a gun at Adm. Adama, along with Adama weeping over a body. I believe that Saul, at this point, is awakened and attempts to kill Adama, where Adama, instead, kills him, which is where we see the weeping scene. However, I imagine that regeneration is possible on this planet (the Hub that they destroyed in space was only for the seven humanoid Cylons), and we'll see Saul again alive and well, but without that eye patch.
Eventually, with the secrets of this planet exposed and "the enemies" being vanquished once and for all, they will discover, amongst the ruins, the true location of Earth, and we'll get our "happy ending" in the series finale (which, I read, may be three hours long).
In terms of that bridge picture, I think it could just be everyone looking into it too much. If all the logic points to this being humankind having colonized farther into the universe thousands of years into the future, with their true origins having been lost to time and obscured through mythology, then what are the chances that the Brooklyn Bridge of today would even continue to exist, anymore than anything random from 3,000 years ago on our Earth would exist?
OKAY I'M DONE NOW! 2009 CAN'T COME SOON ENOUGH!
--------------------------------
The robotic Cylons, in keeping with the mythos of the show, were indeed created by the humans of the Twelve Colonies. As we've seen in "Razor," the original robotic Cylons were an artificial intelligence gone awry, and, after the first Cylon War, they retreated into obscurity.
The Final Five, being "fundamentally different" and in keeping with the mythos that they have "been to Earth," are an advanced form of human being (artificial intelligence?) that was created on the planet that they just landed on. The basestar Hybrids continually talk about everything having "happened before," so it is possible that the "Final Five" species were created here by humans, much as the mechanical Cylons were created by the Twelve Colonies. Equally cyclical, the Final Five species revolted and destroyed Earth in a global war, while a group of surviving humans packed up and left the planet in search for a new home, Kobol, and the Twelve Colonies. It is possible that the humans who left there and the humanoid "Final Five" species battled on Kobol, where they had their last stand, and, triumphantly, the victorious humans left for the Twelve Colonies.
Between Kobol and up to the time of the Twelve Colonies, the Final Five-types continually searched for them, looking for revenge or something of the sort, eventually discovering them shortly before the Cylon War. This is the timeframe where Saul Tigh comes into the picture, according to Adm. Adama. However, since there were so few of them and they were in no position to take on 20 billion people on their own, they instead discovered the robotic Cylons, co-opted them, and "evolved" them from the standard robotic Cylon Centurions that we see in "Razor" into the regenerative, highly-sentient Cylons we see now, in addition to using their knowledge to create the seven humanoid Cylon models as a fusion between them and the robotic Cylons, using 3,000 year old Earth DNA captured from their original war.
Four of the Final Five are, as expected, sleeper agents, but, even as they are increasingly aware of who they are, they are not fully activated. The fifth, as I believe now, is Ellen Tigh, but she was not present to become the Fifth by the end of last season, because she was killed. Or so we believe. It is my guess that Ellen, in keeping with a prophecy on the show...
"The fifth and final Cylon remains hidden, longing to be forgiven for some type of trespass, but will experience suffering in the process."
The "trespass" was her betrayal of Saul on New Caprica that got her killed. Couple this with the fact that, although she is dead, she appears repeatedly in visions on the show (how many deceased characters have been given this privilege? None, except Ellen.), and also, if you listen to the end of the following "hiatus teaser" that was aired on Sci-Fi after the mid-season finale...
YouTube - Battlestar Galactica Hiatus Teaser
...it sounds like Col. Tigh, in shock, saying, "You're the fifth?" Who could give him this level of shock? His dead wife, Ellen. Ellen, after being killed on New Caprica, was regenerated and has been hiding out back on the home planet, luring the BSG crew there to believe that it is Earth, and using some unknown means to manipulate people with dreams and visions, which I think will be answered in 2009.
Which leads me to my hypothesis that this is not Earth, which I base partly on what happened in the original "Battlestar Galactica" of the late 1970s. In that series, everyone had been lured to a planet that they believed to be Earth called "Terra" by "The Beings of Light," where their mission was to avert the planet's annihilation by nuclear war. They succeed, and then they are told that it is, indeed, not Earth, but that they are heading in the right direction.
In relation to the new series and the "Terra" hypothesis, the BSG crew has been heading towards "Earth" mainly on the basis of visions and other supernatural experiences, in addition to a 3,000 year old beacon of unknown origin, and a cryptic temple on the now-destroyed "Algae Planet." Considering how improbable it is for humans to have done either, I'm guessing that these were created and left by the "Final Five"-types to lure them to this planet "Terra" (or whatever), not to mention that all the visions and Kara Thrace's supernatural experiences were just as orchestrated to lure them to this planet that they believe to be Earth. This planet may be aptly described as the first planet that Earth humans colonized after leaving, and these Final Five-types were created for much of the same purposes as the mechanical Cylons were in relation to the Twelve Colonies, but, instead, were highly intelligent, which led them to the nuclear annihilation of everyone on the planet that they all just landed on.
I imagine that the last ten episodes of this season, starting in 2009, will involve the discovery of that Fifth Cylon on that planet, which will lead to the other Four being "awakened" and becoming completely evil. The hiatus teaser shows Saul pointing a gun at Adm. Adama, along with Adama weeping over a body. I believe that Saul, at this point, is awakened and attempts to kill Adama, where Adama, instead, kills him, which is where we see the weeping scene. However, I imagine that regeneration is possible on this planet (the Hub that they destroyed in space was only for the seven humanoid Cylons), and we'll see Saul again alive and well, but without that eye patch.
Eventually, with the secrets of this planet exposed and "the enemies" being vanquished once and for all, they will discover, amongst the ruins, the true location of Earth, and we'll get our "happy ending" in the series finale (which, I read, may be three hours long).
In terms of that bridge picture, I think it could just be everyone looking into it too much. If all the logic points to this being humankind having colonized farther into the universe thousands of years into the future, with their true origins having been lost to time and obscured through mythology, then what are the chances that the Brooklyn Bridge of today would even continue to exist, anymore than anything random from 3,000 years ago on our Earth would exist?
OKAY I'M DONE NOW! 2009 CAN'T COME SOON ENOUGH!
No spoken words
Blue Crack Supplier
Melon, wow. True or not, interesting read.
I'm glad, for your sake, that you do not watch too many other TV shows.
Laz, think Melon would like Survivors (It's an old BBC series, not the CBS show Survivor) or The Prisoner? Something tells me that he'd like the latter.
I'm glad, for your sake, that you do not watch too many other TV shows.
Laz, think Melon would like Survivors (It's an old BBC series, not the CBS show Survivor) or The Prisoner? Something tells me that he'd like the latter.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Yeah, agreed. The Prisoner gets pretty out there, though I love that giant Fuck You of a series finale.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Why on most nights is NSW simply a dimwit, but on this night he's a complete buffoon? Eat this onion, which symbolizes the many layers of his idiocy.
Four questions FTW.
Actually, "The Prisoner" has been on my "to watch" list for a while now, although, admittedly, I know the ending, since it was so iconic. Still, since it is only the equivalent to one season, it isn't catastrophic to me. I still intend to see it.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Well if you like the realism (in its own context, at least) of BSG, I think you'll appreciate Survivors as well, though the sci-fi aspect is pretty non-existent. It's the most "normal" thing I've seen from Terry Nation, that's for sure, but no less brilliant. The good news is that unlike Doctor Who or Blake's 7, all the episodes were shot on film, which gives it a bit more credibility.
No spoken words
Blue Crack Supplier
By the way, so far, so awesome for Survivors.
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
That's all you have to say?
Also, are you an Abby Man or a Jenny Man?
Also, are you an Abby Man or a Jenny Man?
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
Welcome to the wonderful world of torrents.
No spoken words
Blue Crack Supplier
I'll say more when I've seen more. Also, in case others do watch, do not want to give anything away.
No spoken words
Blue Crack Supplier
Melon, I e-mailed Laz in a panic about Survivors and Blake's 7.....I ended up torrenting Blake's 7, the first thing I ever torrented. Survivors I went ahead and bought on DVD and watch on my Laptop.
No spoken words
Blue Crack Supplier
Oh, you're leaving Ásgarðr soon?
lazarus
Blue Crack Supplier
I'm on a Watch List, but I'm not very happy about it.
Yes. The hrimþurs' magical stallion, Svaðilfari, isn't keeping the "garðr" up all that well anymore, and so I'm settling for Toronto over the next few months. It should be fun!
No spoken words
Blue Crack Supplier
Typical.
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