Batman - The Dark Knight Rises

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I was a huge Batman fan since I was 5 (38 years ago) until Dark Knight. I collected comics, movies, toys, everything. But Dark Knight came out and ruined my taste for Batman for a while. Now, this latest mess with Batman in the comics has really turned me off; I hate that a person has to subscribe to multiple comic titles just to understand the basics of what's going on. I read the synopsis on Wikipedia, and I don't like the bizarre turns the Batman world has taken. I do enjoy the Batman fan fiction at Bat Tales (no, this isn't a shameless plug; it's not my site).

But looking back at the movies over the years, I see that while I enjoy elements of each, I really only like a few all the way through now:

1. Batman Begins
2. Batman (1966)
3. Batman Forever
 
I know I come off as someone who hated The Dark Knight, but that's really not the case, I just have a strong love/nostalgia for the last round of Batman films, and a strong dislike for Christian Bale. Regardless, I did actually love The Dark Knight, it was just frustrating at the time to be (what felt like) the one person in a sea of people who thought the film was not "perfect".

I really don't see this new film doing well. Not financially, obviously it'll blow the fucking roof off, but I think this might finally be a misstep by Nolan. The casting of Hathaway, the using of Catwoman, the horrible title and the not so great ending of The Dark Knight, I just don't see how this can be good, but we'll see, I suppose. If nothing else, I'm very excited to see what Tom Hardy does.
 
I'll give Batman Forever credit in that it at least attempts to cover some interesting psychological issues that the Burton films mostly overlook (really everything to do with Bruce's relationship with Dr. Meridian). Aside from that, it's pure commercial trash and such a calculated, money-grubbing reaction to the "darkness" and overt sexuality of Returns. I'll even argue that Forever is even more sexualized than its predecessor and certainly more homo-erotic. Where in the design for Gotham City did they decide that naked Atlasses (sp?) should hold up every fucking building? My friend and I tried doing a Plinkett-esque takedown commentary of the film, then just got fucking bored to death.

Forever and Batman & Robin are cut from the exact same cloth both narratively and stylistically. The plots are EXACTLY the same, beat-for-beat, and both have the most absurd villain pairings (one "established" in the universe and one being introduced). Hell, I'd rather watch Robin for Schwarzenegger's gleefully retarded Mr. Freeze over Jim Carrey's hammy Joker riff. The fault of the Burton/Schumacher films (save for Returns) is that they always focused more on the villain's arc and very seldom found a way to tie it in with Batman; why should Batman be a side-character in his own film?

I'm not a huge fan of Nolan's more literal and grounded interpretation, but if that's what it takes for this character to be relevant to modern audiences, then that's great. I'll take the more fully realized universe of the Animated Series any day of the week.
 
LMP said:
I'll take the more fully realized universe of the Animated Series any day of the week.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the animated series is more like the comics than any of the films, which is a very good thing.

Did you like The Brave And The Bold? I loved it, it reminded me of the 1960s TV show and the Silver Age of Batman.
 
LeMac, I completely agree about Forever. It's horrific. Both Tommy Lee Jones and Carey try to act just like Nicholson. There's absolutely nothing I like about this film, and I'm the guy who frequently sports Val Kilmer pics as avatars.

I've never made it all the way through Batman & Robin. I've tried many times, can't do it.

I think Phantasm may be an age thing, because I've always thought it was pretty mediocre and no better than any of the other silly animated films DC pushes out every few years now, but I know there are tons of people a few years younger than me that absolutely love it. Maybe I should watch it again.
 
I've been championing Elliot Goldenthal's Forever score for years... easily the best of the Batman films (I'm trying to remember the animated series' music, which I have a feeling is pretty great as well) and probably my favorite superhero score since the original Supes.
 
Lancemc said:
I've been championing Elliot Goldenthal's Forever score for years... easily the best of the Batman films (I'm trying to remember the animated series' music, which I have a feeling is pretty great as well) and probably my favorite superhero score since the original Supes.
Click to expand...

His main theme/opening credits are the best parts of the Schumacher films.

u2popmofo said:
I think Phantasm may be an age thing, because I've always thought it was pretty mediocre and no better than any of the other silly animated films DC pushes out every few years now, but I know there are tons of people a few years younger than me that absolutely love it. Maybe I should watch it again.
Click to expand...

To me, there's no comparison between something like Mask of the Phantasm and Under the Red Hood in terms of the former's emotional complexity and narrative simplicity. It's a tight, rich 80 minute story on its most basic terms, where I find the DC stuff to be fairly basic translations/adaptations of singular comics that try very hard to be cool.
 
LMP said:
To me, there's no comparison between something like Mask of the Phantasm and Under the Red Hood in terms of the former's emotional complexity and narrative simplicity. It's a tight, rich 80 minute story on its most basic terms, where I find the DC stuff to be fairly basic translations/adaptations of singular comics that try very hard to be cool.
Click to expand...

I liked both movies. I liked Red Hood a bit better, though.
 
Sorry...Anne Hathway isn't a good choice.
I just don't see it.

FTW

catwoman.jpg
 
lazarus said:
Those people were idiots.

Anyone who watched more than a couple Heath Ledger performances would have realized he was capable of a very wide range of roles. The guy almost won a Best Actor award for Brokeback before The Dark Knight was even filmed, a perf that was itself quite different from what he had done before.
Click to expand...
Oh, I agree, I just thought it was an interesting tidbit in the context of this discussion.

Some reactions from Ledger's casting:
"not sure how I feel about this"
"I just can't stand him"
":|"
"a complete CRAP choice"
"baffling"
"odd choice"
"a bad idea"
 
just an observation

when I red the news about Anne Hathaway... it said that she'd benn cast as Selina Kyle... and the other guy cast as Bane

sure, we KNOW Selina Kyle = Catwoman, but that doesn't make it happen just because.

Maybe she'll be Selina Kyle the whole movie, or just 90% of it... I don't know. That's something I thought when I saw the news.
 
Considering Nolan is trying to wrap this up as a trilogy, I'd be surprised if he left something that big to hang at the end of the film.
 
Hathaway has never really struck me as the "athletic" or even remotely "tough" type, which is probably my biggest beef with the choice, and my biggest beef with most all "heroine" type character choices in movies and TV (same applies for the majority of male characters in similar roles). Do I believe someone like Gina Carano could beat the crap out of someone just from looking at her? Absolutely. Do I think the same of Hathaway? Absolutely not, no matter the silly movie plot back story or circumstances.

As they've done with all the other villains / characters though, I'm sure they'll go some sort of different route. I guess at the end of the day, I guess I don't really care much for Catwoman as a character, so I'm sorta disappointed any story arc will involve her out of the kajillion other characters they could have included.
 
Because of Wikipedia, I just realized he was played by the lead singer from James in Batman Begins.

I didn't even realize he was in Batman Begins in the first place.
 
lazarus said:
Considering Nolan is trying to wrap this up as a trilogy, I'd be surprised if he left something that big to hang at the end of the film.
Click to expand...

And I really think his vision of a trilogy took a huge hit when Heath passed. If that had not happened, I'll bet he would have been back for this third one. It just makes me wonder what Nolan's original plans were for this final installment, and how big a part the Joker played in it. If any.
 
GirlsAloudFan said:
And I really think his vision of a trilogy took a huge hit when Heath passed. If that had not happened, I'll bet he would have been back for this third one. It just makes me wonder what Nolan's original plans were for this final installment, and how big a part the Joker played in it. If any.
Click to expand...

That's probably always going to bug me, the way the Joker plot ends, suggesting he'll be back, when you know he won't.
 
u2popmofo said:
Hathaway has never really struck me as the "athletic" or even remotely "tough" type, which is probably my biggest beef with the choice, and my biggest beef with most all "heroine" type character choices in movies and TV (same applies for the majority of male characters in similar roles). Do I believe someone like Gina Carano could beat the crap out of someone just from looking at her? Absolutely. Do I think the same of Hathaway? Absolutely not, no matter the silly movie plot back story or circumstances.

As they've done with all the other villains / characters though, I'm sure they'll go some sort of different route. I guess at the end of the day, I guess I don't really care much for Catwoman as a character, so I'm sorta disappointed any story arc will involve her out of the kajillion other characters they could have included.
Click to expand...

This is probably the bes analysis of the news I've seen. Agreed on all points.
 
I think I am more disappointed in Catwoman being in the film more than Anne Hathaway being cast as that character. Batman has the deepest group of villians of any comic book character or team. If she can put a Ledger-esque twist on the Catwoman, as she has been portrayed on TV and film, than it would be great but that range of that character has pretty much been covered. Harley Quinn in my opinion would have been perfect in the Nolan universe even if nowhere near as popular.
 
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