Batman - The Dark Knight Rises

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While Caine was very good, it's a shame he disappeared for like an hour. Unless I'm misremembering, there wasn't a reunion scene after Bruce returns to Gotham, no? You think after that period of reflection in the pit he would want to apologize to Alfred.
 
While Caine was very good, it's a shame he disappeared for like an hour. Unless I'm misremembering, there wasn't a reunion scene after Bruce returns to Gotham, no? You think after that period of reflection in the pit he would want to apologize to Alfred.
Bruce was on a bit of a tight schedule, what with the nuclear bomb set to go off and all. Plus Alfie wouldn't have gone back to Gotham; homeboy was probably touring through Europe and getting mad tail.
 
It really is pretty much exactly what he sounded like. I kind of laughed in disbelief the first time he spoke in the film.
It took me out of the movie nearly every time he spoke, and it didn't help that he was quite loquacious. I may have laughed out loud when he started speaking over the PA at the football stadium. I can imagine the spectators "Can you have someone translate that please scary mask guy? We're pretty sure we're supposed to be terrified, but we don't know of what!"
 
It's a fun voice to try to mimic. My friends and I have been working on it. Fun to say totally not evil things in Bane voice.
 
As much as it pains me to say it, but this really was inferior to TDK in pretty much every way. Perhaps that's to be expexcted but I felt that Nolan would still come a lot closer to it than this.

As strange as this sounds, I think the main problem with it is the fact that it suffers from too many of the typical summer comic-book blockbuster trappings. We have the hero, quite literally, in a pit of despair before being reborn and redeeming himself, a ridiculously overblown threat, theatrical dialogue, heavy-handed exposition and the kind of sentimental conclusion that feels at odds with the rest of the Nolan franchise.

I'm not suggesting they should actually have killed Batman off at the end, but the whole, 'you thought I was dead but actually I bailed out thanks to the auto-pilot and am living happily elsewhere' seemed like the kind of thing you'd find in a Captain America or Iron Man film, not here. Plus every appearance of The Bat just pulled me out of the film, I don't know what it's doing in Nolan's universe, other than because The Caped Crusader needs a new toy.

In general, the best superhero movies, and certainly the most critically acclaimed, are those that work to deny their comic-book roots and anchor the thing in a far more recognisable reality (The Avengers may have been massive but you couldn't really call it relevant). That's what TDK did so well, it resisted the whole comic-book sensibility and refused to acknowlege any of the rules which usually apply. So you end up with an allegory about post-9/11 counterterrorism, a villain who feels like the guy you might just meet walking down the street one day(if you're unlucky) not some super-fiend who only lives and breathes for the duration of the movie, a central love interest killed off halfway through, a decent cop made to endure the trauma of his family being held at gunpoint and a hero making the biggest of sacrifices for the greater good.

TDK is so striking because it breaks the rules, there's a genuine sense of jeopardy and risk about the whole thing (much of this comes from Ledger's Joker of course, who invests the movie with real nervous tension) but TDKR doesn't feel anywhere near as audacious, in any sense.

Tom Hardy's a fine actor, but the script doesn't really allow him to do much with Bane. He certainly looks fearsome, but as written, he's disappointingly one-note and almost vague, nowhere near as nuanced, textured, multi-facted or even as terrifying as The Joker. Ledger made me genuinely uneasy, Bane just kind of lumbers around. Being made to act only with your eyes is problematic enough, but when coupled with the 'audio-issue', you really are fighting a losing battle.

The thing is though, Bane had the potential to be every bit as resonant as his predecessor, maybe even more so, I felt the script missed several opportunities to make him into a genuinely foreboding presence. Imagine instead of Gordon diving off into the sewer stream and getting shot, he was down there alone and being stalked throughout the tunnels by Bane. You really would have had a sense of his vulnerability and the kind of punishment Bane would mete out when he finally found him. Maybe had Hardy's body language being far more frenetic or rampaging he would have been more impactful.

Speaking of Gordon, why did they keep him confined to a hospital bed for such a large stretch of the movie? Why was Michael Caine so under-used and where did Alfred go? While we're at it, why did they remove Bruce Wayne from Gotham altogether? When your main character isn't at the heart of the story pushing the drama forward you know something's wrong.

The great thing about TDK was that Wayne/Batman was so intrinsic to every moment of the story. His tireless efforts to stop The Joker gave the movie real urgency and momentum. Character and plot were in complete synchronicity at all times, we didn't just stop for a bit and run on the spot.

Hathaway was brilliant, she just about the stole the show for me and should have been in it far more. Her interactions with Bale had real frisson and finally injected some sex into a strangely clinical trilogy. Plus one or two set-pieces reminded me of just how exhilarating a director Nolan can be, it'a pity he wasn't able to sustain the effect throughout the entire thing.

The bones for a truly great movie are here and I've no doubt Chris and Jonathan Nolan have the talent to do it, but for me, it's the weakest of the three.
 
I thought it was bloated, yet rushed at the same time. Just a complete mess, really. I'll post a proper reaction tomorrow when I don't feel so feckin' depressed.
 
As much as it pains me to say it, but this really was inferior to TDK in pretty much every way. Perhaps that's to be expexcted but I felt that Nolan would still come a lot closer to it than this.

I thought it was bloated, yet rushed at the same time. Just a complete mess, really. I'll post a proper reaction tomorrow when I don't feel so feckin' depressed.


You are both right, this is not even as good as Batman Begins.

I want to go back for the IMAX, but this movie just is not that compelling at all.
 
The ratings for Nolan's movies are very strange to me. Insomnia is way too high, but I guess it's just that kind of film...inoffensive, nothing all that groundbreaking, but well-made. Hey, if everybody gives it a 7, it's still 100%.

And the Prestige is absolutely wonderful.
 
I like Rises better than Begins.

My Nolan rankings in terms of sheer enjoyment would go The Dark Knight, Inception, The Prestige, [The Dark Knight Rises*], Batman Begins, Memento, Insomnia.

Haven't seen Following.

*In brackets as it is the only Nolan film I've seen less than 3 times so it won't definitely stay there forever, but it's comfortable there now.
 
TDKR has neither the freshness of a reboot (Begins) on its side, nor a truly memorable villain (the incomparable Heath in TDK). Begins, to be fair, had dull villains, but Nolan's bold "realistic" take is the driving force that keeps it fresh and interesting for me. I think most of TDKR problems stem from Bane. He's such a limited one note character, by the 90 minute mark I'd lost all interest in his agendas. The key to The Joker was his unpredictability, genuine menace and chilling machinations. Bane wants to reduce Gotham to ashes. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
This is obviously just my opinion, but I found Bane to be the better villain (not performance, although I thought Hardy was excellent in his own right) because I truly could see him besting Batman. Never in TDK did I feel like the Joker could win, but Bane's combination of menace and physical superiority were unnerving and enough to put doubt in my mind. His moral code wasn't as compelling as the Joker's uninhibited chaos, but he more than made up for it with brute force.
 
This is obviously just my opinion, but I found Bane to be the better villain (not performance, although I thought Hardy was excellent in his own right) because I truly could see him besting Batman. Never in TDK did I feel like the Joker could win, but Bane's combination of menace and physical superiority were unnerving and enough to put doubt in my mind. His moral code wasn't as compelling as the Joker's uninhibited chaos, but he more than made up for it with brute force.

:up:
 
I had doubts of Batman's superiority because of the marketing, tagline, etc. but that's it. Bane always had a huge, obvious weakpoint that Batman could exploit, and this one was almost as lame as unplugging a bottle of venom strapped to his back.

I'm just not convinced that Bane was a great lead villain. Thankfully, he had a partner in crime. I loved that.
 
Inception, The Prestige, The Dark Knight, Memento, Batman Begins, The Dark Knight Rises, Insomnia.
 
It took me out of the movie nearly every time he spoke, and it didn't help that he was quite loquacious. I may have laughed out loud when he started speaking over the PA at the football stadium. I can imagine the spectators "Can you have someone translate that please scary mask guy? We're pretty sure we're supposed to be terrified, but we don't know of what!"

Haha, yes. That's just how I felt. I thought it was ridiculous, and I hated Bane. Just wanted him off the screen. I know, there's a guy in a batsuit and all kinds of other nonsensical silliness, but that's all still on a certain level for me. Couldn't understand much of his dialogue either (that was probably a good thing), like other people have said. I prefer the Joker, even though he couldn't kick Batman's butt with one hand behind his back like Bane could. Going up against him in the Joker ways is far more interesting. I remember reading the rumor that they wanted to make The Riddler the villain before it ended up being Bane.

I loved Anne Hathaway and Joseph Gordon Levitt. But I loved The Dark Knight more than Rises.
 
Just saw it today.

Wow. That's taking one wannabe great trilogy (but in actuality only one truly great movie in the bunch) and ruining your shots. I realize TDK was never going to be topped but they could have at least tried harder.

It needs to decide whether it's Nolan's Occupy! movie (as opposed to the 9/11 movie with TDK), or a movie about pain, or a plain war movie.

Now, the good. The best part is Caine's performance. Utterly blew everyone away. Another good part is they got another good villain. Didn't mind the mask, or the voice, just something about his way of speaking bothered me. Too posh sounding, not enough menacing. But the power of the performance was in the intense gase and sheer force of his body, with the Joker Batman was playing mind games, but this one will get to him physically. His analitical terrorism was a nice counterpart to Joker's chaos and anarchy. Liked Catwoman...until she turned around to help the Bat in the end. Too predictable and cheesy. The twist at the ending was good, about the only useful thing about that character to begin with. And until this movie, I wasn't sold on Bale as Batman. He actually showed some range this time.

The bad. Too long - the first half hour or so until Bane showed up at the stock exchange was a snooze -, too "epic" (Hollywood needs to learn bigger isn't always better) and a spectacular fail at the ending*. Too many flashbacks and cameos from previous movies (yet without the best villain! not even a few seconds of the Joker) too. And the series needs to to focus on one villain at a time (only have Scarecrow in Begins, only Joker in TDK and only Bane in DKR) instead of having several ones each time ?

*Seriously ? Batman can survive a NUKE going off in immediate vicinity (followed closely with a little magic touch that can heal his paralysis and broken back) ? Can't the trilogy just end it with that wide shot of the explosion and call it a day with killing Batman ? But yet another Hollywood blockbuster that doesn't dare to finish off the main hero, and yet another wannabe sequel ending with the unnecessary character of officer Blake (who geniously knows all about the truth behind Dent's death and Batman's identity) inheriting the Cave.

By some distance, the weakest of the so called trilogy.
 
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