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Old 12-06-2008, 09:41 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Screwtape2 View Post
Being tasteless and offensive only hurts and angers. They have a responsibility to not create negative emotions when they are there to make people laugh.
Judging by the amount of people in the audience laughing along, I'd say you're incorrect.

And I certainly don't think comedians have a responsibility to not create negative emotions. George Carlin certainly didn't spare anyone's feelings in his routines (and thank God for that). Neither did Bill Hicks, or Richard Pryor, or, etc, ad nauseum - NOT that I think this guy even begins to compare to them. Doubtlessly there were some, if not many, who took offense to certain things they said.

Should a comic's goal be to not offend anyone?
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Old 12-06-2008, 09:46 PM   #17
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Of course not. But pointing at a stand-up skit as a sign of American decadence is patently absurd. Are there intolerant people in this country? Absolutely. But there are intolerant people everywhere in the world, and I'm not going to go off and cry about it every time I think I see an example of it. And another thing, people from other parts of the world don't hate us nearly as much as we're led to believe. Of course there will always be people who hate different cultures... that will remain completely unavoidable throughout the course of human history for as long as there are cultural differences.

And you can't say this piece is especially bad because it isn't funny. Comedy is the most subjective thing in the world for people, and there are obviously thousands of people who do think this is funny. And I'm not about to get riled up over a comedian playing on racial stereotypes for a laugh... that's their job.
I'm not American, I'm European and I'd say America is pretty hated over here But not just America, specifically Western culture. I'm not pointing at this and saying this is wrong ... I'm saying that people find it funny, that's kind of wrong. I don't know, I just don't get it, but you're right - it's just comedy and completely unrepresentative of a nation on the whole.
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Old 12-06-2008, 09:50 PM   #18
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Judging by the amount of people in the audience laughing along, I'd say you're incorrect.

And I certainly don't think comedians have a responsibility to not create negative emotions. George Carlin certainly didn't spare anyone's feelings in his routines (and thank God for that). Neither did Bill Hicks, or Richard Pryor, or, etc, ad nauseum - NOT that I think this guy even begins to compare to them. Doubtlessly there were some, if not many, who took offense to certain things they said.

Should a comic's goal be to not offend anyone?
Yeah, I agree with that, if comedy was just about the positives then it would never challenge anything and of course comedians like Bill Hicks are great because they challenged the system. But I don't feel like this can even be mentioned in the same breath as Bill Hick's work... this is just crass racism and ignorance. It's not parodying that ignorance, which can sometimes get lost in comedy and can be taken the wrong way, but it's celebrating it.

Okay I think I was just so shocked about this because it actually got aired. We don't get stuff like this over here so often, and it's a big deal when we do... cultural difference, that's all.
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Old 12-06-2008, 10:03 PM   #19
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Being tasteless and offensive only hurts and angers.
Have you ever seen an episode of South Park?
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Old 12-06-2008, 10:06 PM   #20
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I'm not American, I'm European and I'd say America is pretty hated over here But not just America, specifically Western culture. I'm not pointing at this and saying this is wrong ... I'm saying that people find it funny, that's kind of wrong. I don't know, I just don't get it, but you're right - it's just comedy and completely unrepresentative of a nation on the whole.
Well, I'm just judging that based on my three years in the center is an extremely international and multicultural community. I've spoken to a huge number of people from countries all over the globe, and this is an issue that comes up often. Generally they tend to say their people admire Americans for their achievements and freedoms and generally welcoming attitude (their words not mine... though that's probably more a generalization of urban environments here, that are typically much more multi-cultural by nature). What I've gathered is that they're just much more frustrated with our government policies of late, which as most should know, most American's neither approve of nor are representative of. Not to single you out in any way, I think the types reactions you have to videos like this are often fed by and results in just as much stereotyping of and hidden (or sometimes not so hidden) prejudices against what this country is "supposed to be like," as we're accused to doing to Eastern cultures.


And I think Diemen hit the nail on the head. Comedy is just comedy. Some comics take it to different places than others, and some are more successful with it than others. Everyone's going to respond to their work differently. Personally, I don't think this guy's much of a comedian, but he doesn't offend my nearly as much as someone like Frank Caliendo, who is just such a worthless vacuum of humor he gives comedy itself a bad name.
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Old 12-06-2008, 10:10 PM   #21
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are you people who think it's not funny and offensive serious????

When did you or did you have a funny bone in your body? It's comedy, doesn't mean the person really means it. It's all for laughs. I bet you all laugh at the dick jokes, gay jokes and any other kind of joke but oh we can't make fun of things like this. Get over it and just laugh. I hope those of you who say it's offensive and not funny, are not lying about your position? I seriously think you all laughed but don't want to look like "someone who may be considered racist." Stop being so politically correct some times. I went out and saw Aries Spears last night and he joked about everything from Homo sexuality, african americans, etc.. and guess what this is in Liberal San Francisco, there were gay people in the audience laughing, muslims etc.... They actually have a sense of humor.
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Old 12-06-2008, 10:15 PM   #22
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Way to almost make me feel embarrassed to be on the same side of the argument Justin...
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Old 12-06-2008, 10:15 PM   #23
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Well, I'm just judging that based on my three years in the center is an extremely international and multicultural community. I've spoken to a huge number of people from countries all over the globe, and this is an issue that comes up often. Generally they tend to say their people admire Americans for their achievements and freedoms and generally welcoming attitude (their words not mine... though that's probably more a generalization of urban environments here, that are typically much more multi-cultural by nature). What I've gathered is that they're just much more frustrated with our government policies of late, which as most should know, most American's neither approve of nor are representative of. Not to single you out in any way, I think the types reactions you have to videos like this are often fed by and results in just as much stereotyping of and hidden (or sometimes not so hidden) prejudices against what this country is "supposed to be like," as we're accused to doing to Eastern cultures.


And I think Diemen hit the nail on the head. Comedy is just comedy. Some comics take it to different places than others, and some are more successful with it than others. Everyone's going to respond to their work differently. Personally, I don't think this guy's much of a comedian, but he doesn't offend my nearly as much as someone like Frank Caliendo, who is just such a worthless vacuum of humor he gives comedy itself a bad name.
I appreciate everything you've just said, but I find it hard to see how my reaction is in any way prejudiced against what American is supposed to be like... my issue isn't with America in particular, it's not even with the West because I know it'd be ridiculous to assume everyone agrees with this. My issue is simply with the fact that people can find this funny I don't find taking the piss out of any different culture or religion, in such a derogatory and hateful manner, funny at all, and I find it depressing that other people do. Posting this video and gauging other reactions to it was just a way for me to find out if I'm alone in my disgust or not.
I think you're right to say that people are pissed off with the Bush administration rather than American people, but a lot of people lump the two together and, while it's wrong, it still happens. That's just another issue of ignorance though, isn't it?
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Old 12-06-2008, 10:16 PM   #24
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Way to almost make me feel embarrassed to be on the same side of the argument Justin...
okay I can totally see your argument, but... can't quite see his...?
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Old 12-06-2008, 10:18 PM   #25
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okay I can totally see your argument, but... can't quite see his...?
That's because his argument is based on two very ridiculous assumptions:

1. We have no sense of humor.

2. The routine is actually funny.
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Old 12-06-2008, 10:21 PM   #26
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Yeah, I tried not to make that last response to you sound accusatory in any way personal. I was sort of spinning off into a wider attitude I sense from other nationalities. Though your initial posts on the thread do sort of lean towards that same issue -

Quote:
And we wonder in the west why people of other cultures and religions hate us?!
But I might have been reading you wrong.

Either way, I always hate when I'm engaged in a thoughtful discussion and someone barges in and acts like a complete jackass beside me *cough* Justin *cough*.
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Old 12-06-2008, 10:27 PM   #27
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Yeah, I tried not to make that last response to you sound accusatory in any way personal. I was sort of spinning off into a wider attitude I sense from other nationalities. Though your initial posts on the thread do sort of lean towards that same issue -



But I might have been reading you wrong.

Either way, I always hate when I'm engaged in a thoughtful discussion and someone barges in and acts like a complete jackass beside me *cough* Justin *cough*.
Yeah, I meant that in the sense that our own ignorance towards other cultures will naturally breed a bitterness on the other cultures side. I think this is more from personal experience though, having lived amongst highly ignorant people my whole life who believe all Muslims are terrorists and Polish people only come here to steal our jobs. I'm just too used to fighting these bigots, and when I see something like this video I can't help but think what Muslims etc must think of us. I use 'us' too liberally perhaps, as this Comedian's American and I'm not.
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Old 12-06-2008, 10:28 PM   #28
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That's because his argument is based on two very ridiculous assumptions:

1. We have no sense of humor.

2. The routine is actually funny.
Get over it and just laugh. Stop lying about your position.
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Old 12-06-2008, 10:30 PM   #29
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What Muslims think? I personally was offended, yes. Especially the "Allah damnit" bit, that was incredibly rude, we're not supposed to say God's name in that context... I can't articulate very well what I am trying to convey, but that was my major complaint. But yeah, it was on the whole in bad taste and pretty crass, IN MY OPINION. Does that make me not have a sense of humor for not finding this video funny? If so, so be it.
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Old 12-06-2008, 10:38 PM   #30
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I think, too, the whole 'silence, I kill you' thing was in poor taste given ... well, for example, the London bombings. How many people died then? Not to mention the terrorists themselves. Is that not sort of taking this piss out of all those people who died, including the terrorists in their vehemence, and making light out of something when it's far too soon to do? Maybe in the future, when these problems are over and a thing of the past, but not now when people are still loosing their lives because of these issues.
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