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Old 10-27-2003, 11:59 AM   #31
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I'm not sure how you go from person to "a force" from these statements. In fact, it seems consistent with the references in Job and Isaiah.
Well this goes along with the argument of limited language. I'm not sure how I would define it either, but I wouldn't ever define God or Satan as a person. I think that would be a little limiting.
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Old 10-27-2003, 12:00 PM   #32
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I think people who say the Bible is the dictated word of God are being a little naive.

divinely inspired...perhaps

nb...I dont see how it would be shattering to me if the bible were shown NOT to be an authority. Are you saying God can only relate to us through old words?




I recall a time not so long ago when the Catholic Church held to a belief that there was no life outside of Earth.

Boy, what an ironic day it was when the Pope acknowlegded that we found ancient organiz material on Mars.

I was sure the Catholic world was going to collapse... lol. It didn't. Why? Because most people don't even have a clue about the religions/sects they believe in. They are, for the most part, ignorant or naive followers (and I'm not saying that just about Catholics, but about most/all religions and organized belief structures).
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Old 10-27-2003, 12:02 PM   #33
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I'm not saying that I have a higher wisdom...just seems it can almost be proved that the words aren't His very own. or at least, that they are greatly different than the original words.

whereas, nobody can prove at all that they are His words.
the only way they could be is if he himself intervened over all the years to force the church and writers and translators to write the exact right words.
that just doesn't seem like something God would do..I don't know
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Old 10-27-2003, 12:04 PM   #34
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Well this goes along with the argument of limited language. I'm not sure how I would define it either, but I wouldn't ever define God or Satan as a person. I think that would be a little limiting.

Funny isn't it though... that many people see Jesus as God, that statues hang on church walls and in homes? I thought I'd read something about 'Thou Shall Not Worship Idols'

*cough*hypocrisy*cough*
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Old 10-27-2003, 12:27 PM   #35
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Well this goes along with the argument of limited language. I'm not sure how I would define it either, but I wouldn't ever define God or Satan as a person. I think that would be a little limiting.
How so? God, as a person, who is omniscient and omnipotent. I agree we cannot "limit" God.

How do we respond? Do we elevate God and acknowledge that we cannot fully understand what God understands?
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Old 10-27-2003, 12:29 PM   #36
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Funny isn't it though... that many people see Jesus as God, that statues hang on church walls and in homes? I thought I'd read something about 'Thou Shall Not Worship Idols'

*cough*hypocrisy*cough*
While we do not have statutes in our home, I would not point the finger at Catholics who hang crucifixes in their homes. Its existence does not mean it is worshiped.
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Old 10-27-2003, 12:34 PM   #37
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How so? God, as a person, who is omniscient and omnipotent. I agree we cannot "limit" God.

How do we respond? Do we elevate God and acknowledge that we cannot fully understand what God understands?
I guess because I've always thought as the definition of "person" having to do with human. But I see where you're coming from.
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Old 10-27-2003, 12:36 PM   #38
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I'm not saying that I have a higher wisdom...just seems it can almost be proved that the words aren't His very own. or at least, that they are greatly different than the original words.
I would agree that certain translations of the Bible are not authoritative. There are some sects or denominations that treat the 1611 King James as the absolute true source. As with any study, as you dig, you inevitably go back to the earliest known manuscripts.
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Old 10-27-2003, 12:39 PM   #39
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I guess because I've always thought as the definition of "person" having to do with human. But I see where you're coming from.
One thing I've enjoyed doing is a study of the attributes of God. Even with such rich descriptions, there is definitely a sense that God is much greater than what we can comprehend.
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Old 10-27-2003, 12:55 PM   #40
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One thing I've enjoyed doing is a study of the attributes of God. Even with such rich descriptions, there is definitely a sense that God is much greater than what we can comprehend.
Absolutely. That's why I've always had a problem using everyday pronouns to describe God. I always felt using 'He' just as you would any other man never truly defined God. I always felt it lost something. But I think it's just a personal thing for me. I feel like too many often give God human attributes to define God instead of the other way around. But that's probably a whole different discussion.
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Old 10-27-2003, 01:05 PM   #41
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God is not a he or a she
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Old 10-27-2003, 01:11 PM   #42
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Absolutely. That's why I've always had a problem using everyday pronouns to describe God. I always felt using 'He' just as you would any other man never truly defined God. I always felt it lost something. But I think it's just a personal thing for me. I feel like too many often give God human attributes to define God instead of the other way around. But that's probably a whole different discussion.
Definitely. The only reason for using "He" is based on how God has revealed himself to us (as the "Father"). It has nothing to do with our own gender.
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Old 10-27-2003, 02:10 PM   #43
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Originally posted by Elvis



Funny isn't it though... that many people see Jesus as God, that statues hang on church walls and in homes? I thought I'd read something about 'Thou Shall Not Worship Idols'

*cough*hypocrisy*cough*
I have never been to somebody's house where they worshipped the crucifix. Ever. Or statues of the Virgin or one of the saints. Some people put them up because it is cultural (ie. specific Saints are associated with their culture or ethnicity and the feast days of those saints are a huge deal) and not because they are worshipping them in any way.

In any case, growing up, we had all sorts of religious art in our house. We'd have crucifixes in some bedrooms, we'd have Hindu statues or art, Korean Buddhist art, etc. Most of it is quite beautiful.

And no, I don't believe that the Bible is the final authority, nor do I believe that it was penned by God. Inspired, sure, but also filtered and full of human bias. It is certainly an interesting read, but historically inaccurate (ie. the destruction of Jericho). I've never read it literally nor do I have any incentive to.
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Old 10-27-2003, 02:16 PM   #44
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I am Catholic. I have crucifixes hanging in my room. I do not worship these crucifixes. The crucifixes are symbols of Christ dying for our sins. You cannot literally make a statue out of this. These things are merely symbols.
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Old 10-27-2003, 02:26 PM   #45
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When I look at the Old Testament I look at it as the story of God's chose people, Israel. And I take theat name very seriously. It means (as I'm sure most of you know) "he who struggles with God". I view the whole Old testament that way. It is one people's struggle to come to grips with the Gd who chose them. And in the end though they do come closer and closer they do not succeed, but neither do they give up.

God is ultimately unknowable (plus we are separtated by our sins). He is too far beyond us to be understood. Yet he has reached out and invited people to come into communion with him. And people have struggled and tried. But the only way for us to reach God was for God to come to us. And thus we have Christ.

But going back there were any number of steps made by God's people to try and come to understanding, from the earliest vague notion sof God to the prophets and witers of the Hebrew cannon. That undrestanding changed and expanded under God's direction and aid and continues today (none of us knew Jesus, and we have been working for centuries fromteh Church Fathers on to understand the full meaning and intricacies of the Incarnation). That is what for me is meant by divine inspiration.

As to God as a person.... I consider him (use that as I'm used to that and I prefer a personla pronoun) to be beyond personality. Yet that does not make him impersonal (something less than personal), rather it makes him superpersonal, more than personal. The best we can do is percieve him as the Trinty, three person who are one being. As personal beings we see God as something somewaht like our selves but more so.

That's all I got for now, not sure how sensical or to the matter at hand that was...

One hting I will agree with you on Elvis, words suck.
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