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Old 03-28-2006, 11:24 AM   #1
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Youths Riot In France Over Jobs Law-Is it just a “French” thing?

The Washington Post article on this story and the real treat is this quote:

They’re offering us nothing but slavery,” said Maud Pottier, 17, a student at Jules Verne High School in Sartrouville, north of Paris, who was wrapped in layers of scarves as protection against the chilly, gray day. “You’ll get a job knowing that you’ve got to do every single thing they ask you to do because otherwise you may get sacked."

Before we all feel sorry for them, here are some quotes I found on the net:

"You do what you are told at work, IT IS WHAT THEY PAY YOU FOR.

My friends are getting sick of these type people.

Since this is what modern liberalism is about, I pray that the GOP rules for the next 1000 years.
This type of thinking has to go.

The current regulations in France are making it difficult for employers to hire workers because the laws make it virtually impossible to fire incompetent ones and the required benefits and severance packages are cost prohibitive. So a company isn’t going to hire full-time employees under that system of laws - they’re going to hire temps, or not at all.

Economists blame this for France’s stagnant (and failing) economy.

But the kiddies are so used to thinking they’re “entitled” to such things, that they are naturally going to put up a fight when their entitlement is challenged.

And, to you who said: “You’ll get a job knowing that you’ve got to do every single thing they ask you to do because otherwise you may get sacked.”

THAT’S WHAT WORK IS. You find a company that needs your services. They pay you for those services, so long as you provide what they want. Would you tip a waitress for bad service? Would you pay for a defective product? Would you put money into an investment you know will fail? I don’t think so. So why should a company have to suck up the liability for your lazy a$$ and pay you when you don’t do what you’re told?

This socialist propaganda is making me ill."
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Old 03-28-2006, 11:38 AM   #2
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while i think it's fairly obvious that much of Europe is suffering from being unable to keep the promises of the welfare state, and painful changes are both long overdue and inevitable, i think we'd also do well to understand that there are different ways of looking at the value of "work" in a society, and also of looking at how "work" is supposed to benefit a society. simply because a country doesn't adopt the hyper-capitalistic aggressive ethos of the United States -- you know, the ethos that has given us Enron and WorldCom -- doesn't mean that it's "socialist propaganda." simply because there's a view of economics that's different than your own doesn't mean that it's automatically incorrect.

why do these french people piss you off so much? are you one of those americans that gets irate when the service at your average Parisian bistro is slower than the aggressive turn-over mentality at the local TGI Friday's in the exurban strip mall?
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Old 03-28-2006, 11:43 AM   #3
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Re: Youths Riot In France Over Jobs Law-Is it just a “French” thing?

Quote:
Originally posted by BorderGirl
Before we all feel sorry for them, here are some quotes I found on the net:
Where, precisely, did you find these 'quotes'?
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Old 03-28-2006, 11:49 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
while i think it's fairly obvious that much of Europe is suffering from being unable to keep the promises of the welfare state, and painful changes are both long overdue and inevitable, i think we'd also do well to understand that there are different ways of looking at the value of "work" in a society, and also of looking at how "work" is supposed to benefit a society. simply because a country doesn't adopt the hyper-capitalistic aggressive ethos of the United States -- you know, the ethos that has given us Enron and WorldCom -- doesn't mean that it's "socialist propaganda." simply because there's a view of economics that's different than your own doesn't mean that it's automatically incorrect.
Agreed, in my view the systems of countries like Switzerland (for example) offer a good middle ground between statism and free market dynamics.
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Old 03-28-2006, 12:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
are you one of those americans that gets irate when the service at your average Parisian bistro is slower than the aggressive turn-over mentality at the local TGI Friday's in the exurban strip mall?
No, when in Rome, I do as the Romans do. Every culture is as valid as our own even if you or I don't eat at TGIF.
The situation in Paris is one of whether or not entitlement laws hinder economics.
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Old 03-28-2006, 01:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by BorderGirl


No, when in Rome, I do as the Romans do. Every culture is as valid as our own even if you or I don't eat at TGIF.
The situation in Paris is one of whether or not entitlement laws hinder economics.


then why the anger over "socialist propaganda"?

don't attitudes towards economics directly inform cultural practices? you brought up not tipping for bad service, yet one does not expect "service" in a French restaurant the way that one experiences service in an American chain restaurant -- the waiter in France is not working for tips, so the food might come much more slowly, yet once you've paid for your meal the table is yours for the rest of the day as opposed to the American waiter who will hover over you until you leave.

there are varying degrees of socialism, and France is hardly a purely socialist country, and while we're in agreement about the ability of the state to continue to pay for entitlements, i don't think it's right to view a more collective understanding of society as simple "propaganda." not everyone wants to be like the US.
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Old 03-28-2006, 01:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy


Agreed, in my view the systems of countries like Switzerland (for example) offer a good middle ground between statism and free market dynamics.
Can you recommend a good book to read about Swiss politics in general? I don't know anything about their system.
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Old 03-28-2006, 01:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
[B
-- the waiter in France is not working for tips [/B]
Yes, great for the patrons visiting but maybe bad for them since their culture is not into capitalism

not everyone wants to be like the US. [/B][/QUOTE]
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Old 03-28-2006, 01:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
Can you recommend a good book to read about Swiss politics in general? I don't know anything about their system.
Well I don't know if I can think of a book offhand, I was just making the point that there is a middle ground between unrestrained capitalism and statism.

Wikipedia article on the Swiss economy :-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Switzerland
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Old 03-28-2006, 01:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy


Well I don't know if I can think of a book offhand, I was just making the point that there is a middle ground between unrestrained capitalism and statism.

Wikipedia article on the Swiss economy :-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Switzerland
I love Switzerland. I wouldn't mind living there if I weren't such a linguistic klutz and my French was better.
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Old 03-28-2006, 01:53 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
I love Switzerland. I wouldn't mind living there if I weren't such a linguistic klutz and my French was better.
Most Swiss speak English pretty well, probably as a result of growing up in a multilingual environment.
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Old 03-28-2006, 01:59 PM   #12
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Yeah, but I always feel like an idiot for not speaking the language of the people I'm visiting. I've been told that enough Turks speak English for me not to be nervous about it in Turkey, but I'm still going to try to learn some Turkish. I want to at least be able to say "hello" and "thank you".
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Old 03-28-2006, 02:03 PM   #13
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I don't worship capitalism, but I don't hate it either. I don't mind people making money. I don't like Enron, either, though, and I don't like Bush's tax cuts for the rich. It's going to take our grandchildren forever to clean up this debt.
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Old 03-28-2006, 02:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
I want to at least be able to say "hello" and "thank you".
Very important words in any language!

Habari gani? That translates to "how are you" in Kiswahili, the national language spoken in Kenya.

Merhaba!
That is hello in Turkish.

Thank you is,
Tesekkurler ( teh-sheh-keur eh-deh-rim)
Çok tesekkur ederim (big thanks)
Saðol (thank you)
Saðolun (thank you - "saol")

"Hoscakal" is good-bye.
Google is a great thing.
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
The current regulations in France are making it difficult for employers to hire workers because the laws make it virtually impossible to fire incompetent ones and the required benefits and severance packages are cost prohibitive. So a company isn’t going to hire full-time employees under that system of laws - they’re going to hire temps, or not at all.
This seems to go to the core of the issue. The system made hiring so expensive that employers look to other means to complete the jobs. It happens in different forms in all other parts of the economy. Overprice a component, and the market will find it for less.
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