Youths Riot In France Over Jobs Law-Is it just a “French” thing? - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-29-2006, 04:34 PM   #31
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
although, given your editing skills, i bet you'll one day find yourself a hot-shot producer who can work freelance whenever he wants for good bucks, so you can take as much vacation as you can afford

You've hit the solution to getting what you want - starting your own business or working for yourself. There are trade-offs involved, but if it is flexibility you seek, this is the route to take.
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 03-29-2006, 06:50 PM   #32
Acrobat
 
BorderGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Under A Blood Red Texas Sky
Posts: 418
Local Time: 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Anu
I support the French who are in the streets.

The funny thing about capitalism is when the bosses complain that the workers are spoiled and don't like work, they never look in the mirror.

Many people are still born rich, live lavish lives as capitalists, where the closest thing to work they do is lifting the golf clubs in and out of the trunk.

Anu
In other words, people have a right for other people to have to continue employing them, whether those other people want to or not. The "fundamental right" to a job over-rides the rights of other people when they are called "bosses."

The fact that many students can think only in terms of "rights," but not in terms of consequences, shows a major deficiency in their education.

The heady notion of "rights" -- and especially the notion that your rights over-ride other people's rights, when those other people belong to some suspect class called "bosses" -- is an all too familiar feature of modern welfare state notions.

-French Student Riots
Opinion Editorial by Thomas Sowell - Mar 20, 2006
__________________

__________________
BorderGirl is offline  
Old 03-29-2006, 07:13 PM   #33
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS
 
hiphop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: in the jungle
Posts: 7,410
Local Time: 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BorderGirl

The heady notion of "rights" -- and especially the notion that your rights over-ride other people's rights, when those other people belong to some suspect class called "bosses" -- is an all too familiar feature of modern welfare state notions.
Another all too familiar feature is that the discussion revolves around efficiency. Actually it would be funny, if it wasn´t so sad.

Believe me, I´m looking through both glasses - the one of the employer and the one of the employee.

The employers are restructuring the working conditions by falsely stating (and fueling the argument in the media) that people who have better conditions in welfare and social transfers, are somehow more lazy than these who always have to sweat and run after their success.

I have done enough management courses to know that we´re always planning more profit, however we achieve it, whatever we call it. Be it change mangement or human resources mangement or profit mgmt.. we put the employee into a new situation. We want that he´s always chasing the profit, and we want that he has always fear to lose his job. We don´t want him to lean back. We think that leaning back is lazyness and we lose some of our short-term profit. We threaten a sub-manager with firing if he doesn´t bring what we "expect", and often expectations are unrealistic.

We don´t think about long term profit. About happiness. Employees don´t like when managers make them feel insecure about their job. They want a secure job. They want to do their thing, they´re not generally lazy. Some may be, but with all our tests and whatnot, we could easily filter them out and kick them out or give them special training, whatever. The emplyees will thrive when they find good social conditions. They will say "My company does this and that for me, they don´t just pay the wage, they also pay when I´m ill, they also let me have 4 weeks of holidays, great, I love to work for them and I will do my best!"
Everyone would be happy.

But that´s not the situation we want. We don´t want that everyone is happy with what he does. We want that he looks to his neighbor full of greed because with his provisions the neighbor earned more than him. We want him to believe that this is his own fault, when it´s just luck more often than not. The employee may lick our feet and say "Oh yeah, I will try to fulfil your expectations next week" - but in reality he will go home and think "Fuck the job. Fuck the boss." He will be unfriendly to the one or the other client and we will not even realize that. Because we are too busy planning our next controlling instrument. or even better, learning about the newest management method so we can go to brag, how was the new shit called. But, we will have the emloyee work 3.5% faster than usual (and 10% less exact- fuck quality!) because he is always on the run. On the run from getting fired. Also, we will pay him 7% less, but tell him if he´s good enough he can earn his fucking trillions of dollars with our superman brand. If he doesn´t he probably wasn´t really motivated. In the end, we´ll all get a heart attack and die in happiness.

Great concept!
__________________
hiphop is offline  
Old 03-29-2006, 08:00 PM   #34
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 12:37 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
If he doesn´t he probably wasn´t really motivated. In the end, we´ll all get a heart attack and die in happiness.

Great concept!

Well guys, I just think that Billy Joel said it best:-


(Billy Joel - Movin' Out (anthony's Song) Lyrics)

'Anthony works in the grocery store
Savin' his pennies for someday
Mama Leone left a note on the door,
She said,
"Sonny, move out to the country."
Workin' too hard can give me
A heart attack
You oughta know by now
Who needs a house out in Hackensack?
Is that what you get with your money?

CHORUS
It seems such a waste of time
If that's what it's all about
If that's movin' up then I'm movin' out.'



__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 03-29-2006, 08:29 PM   #35
ONE
love, blood, life
 
zoney!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: six metro locations
Posts: 11,292
Local Time: 05:37 PM
You did not just quote Billy Joel?

I am interested in learning more about Switzerland's economy and seeing if it truly is a "middle ground." Thank you for that tidbit.

I am tired of Americans scoffing at the French. I read a pretty good opinion piece last week that compared the French youth protests to that of the demands of the UAW from GM and Ford.

There must be a middle ground between capitalism and socialism...right?
__________________
zoney! is offline  
Old 03-29-2006, 08:31 PM   #36
ONE
love, blood, life
 
financeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 10,122
Local Time: 12:37 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by zoney!
You did not just quote Billy Joel?
__________________
financeguy is offline  
Old 03-30-2006, 08:54 AM   #37
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,174
Local Time: 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BorderGirl
...
The fact that many students can think only in terms of "rights," but not in terms of consequences, shows a major deficiency in their education....
-French Student Riots
Opinion Editorial by Thomas Sowell - Mar 20, 2006
What system is right for you is not always right for others all the time. I don't think the students education is sub-standard. I think it is different , maybe, but not deficient. There are consequences for every choice made. They just may be smart enough to reject the homogenizing ones we stupidly made.
__________________
SunBloc is offline  
Old 03-30-2006, 09:01 AM   #38
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
although, given your editing skills, i bet you'll one day find yourself a hot-shot producer who can work freelance whenever he wants for good bucks, so you can take as much vacation as you can afford

Here's hoping! Thank you for your vote of confidence.

Melon
__________________
melon is offline  
Old 03-30-2006, 01:52 PM   #39
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
MissMaCo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: France - North West Coast
Posts: 3,823
Local Time: 01:37 AM
The CPE was ratified a few hours ago.
__________________
MissMaCo is offline  
Old 03-30-2006, 06:32 PM   #40
ONE
love, blood, life
 
zoney!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: six metro locations
Posts: 11,292
Local Time: 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by MissMaCo
The CPE was ratified a few hours ago.
What are your feelings on this issue?

I have been wondering....
__________________
zoney! is offline  
Old 03-31-2006, 06:16 AM   #41
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
MissMaCo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: France - North West Coast
Posts: 3,823
Local Time: 01:37 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by zoney!


What are your feelings on this issue?

I have been wondering....
Well I often disagree with this government's decisions but I have to say that something has to be done for the employment field. I don't know if this CPE is a good thing or not but what I know is that this kind of contract is not new. It has always existed but with a different name. Employers have always had the right to fire their employees at a certain time.
I'm lucky enough not to have to apply for jobs (I'm state-employed) but I know how hard it is to find a job here even (and maybe even more) when you have tons of diplomas. France is being lagged behind a lot of countries on that issue. I think we need a change but a lot of French people are afraid by changes.
I support the students on strike, I share their fear. But I'm a bit puzzled when I come to uni and find its doors padlocked by students. I mean I haven't been able to give lessons for 4 weeks now and I also support the students who want to study and who worry about their exams coming. I have a problem with people who prevent the others from doing what they want. The students who want to study don't prevent the others from going on strike I have spoken to my students about the issue and i'm surprised that a lot of them don't really understand it.

That said, this problem is quite complex, and even if I'm French, I'm not sure I'm the best person to talk about it.
__________________
MissMaCo is offline  
Old 03-31-2006, 03:27 PM   #42
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 12:37 AM
Quote:
French Jobs Law Going Ahead, With Changes

By NATHALIE SCHUCK
Associated Press, Match 31, 2006


President Jacques Chirac said Friday he would press ahead with a contentious labor law making it easier to fire workers under 26, but he offered some concessions in hopes of calming furious protests that led to nationwide strikes. Chirac said he would reduce a trial period during which employees could be summarily dismissed from two years to one, and that he would require employers to offer reasons for the dismissal.

The concessions appeared to anger, not appease, opponents of the law, who wanted it scrapped altogether. "Chirac didn't hear the message,'' said Bernard Thibault, head of the CGT union, on TF 1 television. "We now have more reason to protest.''

The crisis has wrecked government ties with unions, and made labor leaders unusually united. It has radicalized youths, heightening already widespread fears about globalization and reviving suspicions about bosses and capitalism--possibly causing a long-lasting setback for the cause of reform. Many youths who have protested fear job market challenges from rising economies like India and China and hope to secure permanent, highly protected job contracts that many of their parents enjoy.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 04-04-2006, 11:48 PM   #43
ONE
love, blood, life
 
zoney!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: six metro locations
Posts: 11,292
Local Time: 05:37 PM
Thanks MissMaCo!
__________________
zoney! is offline  
Old 04-05-2006, 10:00 AM   #44
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 03:37 PM
French Protest Jobs Law for a Second Day

Quote:
Demonstrators blocked roads, rail lines and mail delivery trucks Wednesday in a second straight day of protests to demand the repeal of a divisive jobs law, while unions vowed they would not compromise in talks with President Jacques Chirac's ruling party on the issue.

Buoyed by the success of marches that drew more than 1 million protesters Tuesday, unions were in a position of strength heading into talks that Chirac's government hoped might offer a way out of the crisis.

"Students must be able to prepare for exams, and high schoolers must go back to school," Chirac said in a Cabinet meeting Wednesday, according to a spokesman. Some universities have been shut down for weeks, and many high schools have been affected, as well.

Labor leader Bernard Thibault said the repeal of the law, which would make it easier to fire young workers, was "not negotiable." Unions also met among themselves to discuss further protest action, determined to maintain the intense pressure that has fractured the embattled conservative government.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 04-10-2006, 06:30 AM   #45
ONE
love, blood, life
 
melon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,781
Local Time: 06:37 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060410/...IyBHNlYwMxNjk2

Quote:
France to scrap disputed youth job contract

By Elizabeth Pineau

France will scrap a planned youth job contract that has provoked weeks of protests and a political crisis, President Jacques Chirac said on Monday.

Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, who has championed the job law and seen his poll ratings plunge as a result, said in a televised statement he regretted that events had shown the contract could not be applied.

He did not spell out the implications for his own political future, put at risk as a result of his handling of the dispute.

"The president of the republic has decided to replace article 8 of the equal opportunities law with measures to help disadvantaged young people find work," said a statement from the presidency.

One student leader said the First Job Contract (CPE) was effectively dead.

The new measures in the law would address the problem of youth unemployment of 22 percent, quell the protests and also find a way of saving face for Villepin, commentators said.

Details of the measures were expected later in the day and new legislation could enter parliament as early as this week.

"The necessary conditions of confidence and calm are not there, either among young people, or companies, to allow the application of the First Job Contract," Villepin said in his brief televised statement after meetings with Chirac and other senior ruling conservatives.

Villepin said the contract would be replaced by proposals aimed at helping disadvantaged young job-seekers and he said he would open a discussion "without preconditions" with social partners on how to provide youth unemployment.

The protests, and a perception that Villepin has been unresponsive to voter sentiment over the contract, has damaged the popularity of the prime minister and his hopes of becoming the ruling party's candidate for presidential elections in 2007.

A poll for Liberation newspaper showed Villepin's popularity stood at 49 percent in the first week of January but had fallen to 25 percent this weekend. Negative opinion of Chirac rose from 56 percent to 64 percent over the same period.

"CPE IS DEAD"

Chirac and Villepin were careful in their statements to say the CPE was being "replaced." Others said it was dead.

"The players in the crisis have difficulty pronouncing the words repeal. The CPE is dead, the CPE seems to be finished ... and I think they must have the courage finally to say it clearly," Julie Coudry, president of the student confederation, said on LCI television.

Asked if she was satisfied, Coudry replied: "Of course. I think we have a mobilization that has been organized for two and a half months by 12 organizations, with one main aim, which is the withdrawal of the CPE.

"Today I think we can say that they have finally understood and that we are satisfied."

Dominique Paille, a UMP deputy considered close to Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy who had for weeks called for a compromise on the contract, said: "The president of the republic is withdrawing the CPE. It's a measure that corresponds with what the entire population has been waiting for."

Sarkozy, vilified by many protesters, is the head of the ruling party and a rival with Villepin for the party's candidacy next year when Chirac is expected to step down. The Socialist Party has yet to name its candidate.

The "easy hire, easy fire" CPE would have allowed firms to sack workers under 26 without giving a reason during a two-year trial period.

Students were planning fresh protest marches on Tuesday. Hundreds marched through Paris on Sunday to demand that classes resume and students end a blockade that has brought many high schools and universities to a standstill.
Melon
__________________

__________________
melon is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com