Youths Riot In France Over Jobs Law-Is it just a “French” thing? - Page 2 - U2 Feedback

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Old 03-28-2006, 04:36 PM   #16
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Seems like that in order for France's economy to grow or even to compete globally, they'll have to put a more unrestrictive employment system in place. There has to be some freedom or incentive for businesses to develop beyond small service-oriented types.

But, on the other hand, if this happens, France could some of its flavor & this would effect tourism income, which should be a major consideration.
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:30 PM   #17
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I'm chuckling over a lot of this. I actually had a good argument over this with someone in France--and I was on the "free market" side.

An interesting explanation I was given in return was that these labor laws are very sacred to the French. That is, people died for these laws and it would be a slap in their face to repeal them. It's not so different than America's knee-jerk nationalism when it comes to military veterans and wars.

Regardless, I also know that France has a high unemployment rate and *something* has to be done. But I'll let the French deal with it themselves. Those idiots on FOX News whining that the French just don't want to work can just shove it. Your prejudice-laced comments are not needed or wanted.

As Sarkozy put it, the French are open to change. You just need to properly explain why change is needed. In the case of this major change in labor law, nobody in the government has properly and thoroughly explained why this change is necessary, nor have they alleviated any concerns that those affected by this law just won't be exploited and mistreated.

I wish we all had a month's vacation. I've never understood why we have so much loyalty to work when employers don't have second thoughts about cutting your benefits or firing you at the end of the day. It makes me sick when I realize that every year for the next 30 years or so, I will only have two weeks to myself a year. It's pretty perverse, if you ask me.

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Old 03-28-2006, 09:23 PM   #18
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Very important words in any language!

Habari gani? That translates to "how are you" in Kiswahili, the national language spoken in Kenya.

Merhaba!
That is hello in Turkish.

Thank you is,
Tesekkurler ( teh-sheh-keur eh-deh-rim)
Çok tesekkur ederim (big thanks)
Saðol (thank you)
Saðolun (thank you - "saol")

"Hoscakal" is good-bye.
Google is a great thing.
Thanks for the linguistic help! A Turk is setting up a practical Turkish list on a Turkey tour list I'm on, and that will be a big help as well.
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Old 03-29-2006, 09:05 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
...As Sarkozy put it, the French are open to change....
In theory, maybe, but probably not when it effects traditional life style. Traditions are sacred in France.
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Old 03-29-2006, 09:51 AM   #20
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In theory, maybe, but probably not when it effects traditional life style. Traditions are sacred in France.


this is true. i adore Europe, and much of what i adore is their passioante attachment to notions of French-ness, or Dutch-ness, or German-ness.

yet this romantic attachment to an idealized notion of culture is becoming increasingly self-defeating, not to mention fueling nationalism as we're seeing in the rise of far right candidates like Le Pen.

i think the vast majority of Europeans view their cultures as something inclusive and tolerant, and for the most part i think they're correct. but, as with any culture, there's always a downside, and i think the current state of economic stagnation and intransigence to change is a current manifestation of such a downside.
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Old 03-29-2006, 10:16 AM   #21
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That passionate attachment to tradition runs through the veins of the French. In many ways (some of which do not make money, and some of which do) this is the greatest attribute of their nation.

I don't see the demonstrators backing down. It is possible that special trade zone(s) around Paris may be set up with regulations that may ease the restrictions on larger businesses. The opposition in France will not die. Production levels will hurt big business till they compromise.
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Old 03-29-2006, 11:19 AM   #22
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BorderGirl

You know the French are going through quite a difficult transition. Whilst they undoubtedly have many very strong attributes, they have some difficult decisions to make on immigration, employment and the role of the state.

In my view the role of any state is to lay the economic foundations that allow its businesses to compete on a level playing field...which leads me to think what they are doing on employment rules is a necessary (if difficult) hurdle to pass. If they resist now their future will suffer...much in the same way that the UK did in the 70s and early 80s when unions led national strikes.
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Old 03-29-2006, 11:28 AM   #23
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I like the European regard for tradition also, but in this case it's hurting the French. Their employment situation is going to get worse if they don't change at least certain aspects of the labor situation.
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Old 03-29-2006, 02:12 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by SunBloc
In theory, maybe, but probably not when it effects traditional life style. Traditions are sacred in France.
And economic traditions (pensions, benefits, guaranteed employment) are just as hard, if not more difficult, to change.
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Old 03-29-2006, 03:33 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
I'm chuckling over a lot of this. I actually had a good argument over this with someone in France--and I was on the "free market" side.

An interesting explanation I was given in return was that these labor laws are very sacred to the French. That is, people died for these laws and it would be a slap in their face to repeal them. It's not so different than America's knee-jerk nationalism when it comes to military veterans and wars.

Regardless, I also know that France has a high unemployment rate and *something* has to be done. But I'll let the French deal with it themselves. Those idiots on FOX News whining that the French just don't want to work can just shove it. Your prejudice-laced comments are not needed or wanted.

As Sarkozy put it, the French are open to change. You just need to properly explain why change is needed. In the case of this major change in labor law, nobody in the government has properly and thoroughly explained why this change is necessary, nor have they alleviated any concerns that those affected by this law just won't be exploited and mistreated.

I wish we all had a month's vacation. I've never understood why we have so much loyalty to work when employers don't have second thoughts about cutting your benefits or firing you at the end of the day. It makes me sick when I realize that every year for the next 30 years or so, I will only have two weeks to myself a year. It's pretty perverse, if you ask me.

Melon
The voice of reason speaks again.

(you only have 2 weeks of holidays? what´s THAT??!! we complain when we don´t get 3 weeks of the 5 weeks/ year in summer. but most of these fixed jobs are gone... many companies only hire people for project work)
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Old 03-29-2006, 03:36 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
I wish we all had a month's vacation. I've never understood why we have so much loyalty to work when employers don't have second thoughts about cutting your benefits or firing you at the end of the day. It makes me sick when I realize that every year for the next 30 years or so, I will only have two weeks to myself a year. It's pretty perverse, if you ask me.


although, given your editing skills, i bet you'll one day find yourself a hot-shot producer who can work freelance whenever he wants for good bucks, so you can take as much vacation as you can afford

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Old 03-29-2006, 03:40 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


And economic traditions (pensions, benefits, guaranteed employment) are just as hard, if not more difficult, to change.
True!

It is difficult to change - one time you had this, you don´t want to miss it.

In my last Key Account job, I got 14 monthly wages per year (instead of 12), had 4 weeks of paid holidays in the first year, got unemployment benefits after I was gone, had a three-month time frame before I could leave the company, and was paid when I was ill. In return, I did many extra hours for free (in the range of about 5 hrs per week - normally they would have to pay 150% of the hourly rate) - which is very usual in sales branches.

That´s the conditions we fought for - through many, many years. However, the system is getting blasted by the type of independent contracts/ project work where you will only get paid per hour, have no paid holidays (but can take some when you want), no payments when you´re ill, etc. etc. ... no one wants a job like that, but since unemployment is high, the workers are forced into these situations.
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Old 03-29-2006, 03:41 PM   #28
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
you only have 2 weeks of holidays? what´s THAT??!!

that's the sound of HARD WORK and GUMPTION made by a people who have PULLED THEMSELVES UP by their BOOTSTRAPS and not the sound of LAZY EUROWENNIES who are too busy stuffing their faces with BRIE and MERLOT when they should be WORKING FOR ENRON or toiling for a COMPANY that will FIRE them whenever MANAGEMENT gets just A LITTLE BIT nervous about the BOTTOM LINE!

(when you read that, try and hear the Pacino scenery-chewing inflections the caplitalization demands)

(and try to play the Star-Spangled Banner when you do)
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Old 03-29-2006, 03:46 PM   #29
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I knew Bob Lefsetz stole this from somewhere. I LOVE capitalizing. I LOVE pacino. You GOT it.
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Old 03-29-2006, 04:18 PM   #30
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I support the French who are in the streets.

The funny thing about capitalism is when the bosses complain that the workers are spoiled and don't like work, they never look in the mirror.

Many people are still born rich, live lavish lives as capitalists, where the closest thing to work they do is lifting the golf clubs in and out of the trunk.

I don't think the US should be lecturing anyone about economics now. Our example? Ransom our grandchildren's futures in debt to a country (china) where civil repression and sweatshops are the norm?

Anu

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