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Old 04-27-2002, 07:28 PM   #31
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Weight problems are so annoying- whilst I myself have never had an eating disorder and I try not to buy into the whole beauty/model media image thing- it is so hard not to worry about what you look like when you are a woman. I am tall 5'8 and weigh generally around the 65kgs ( I think that is 145pounds ) but I always look a bit big as I have big bones and am very broad from years of swimming and I have such an hourglass and curvy figure- I think I could do a million sit ups a day and never have a flat stomach- now my weight generally dosnt bother me, I like looking womanly but I do gt very self conscious around men as I think that they all want stick thin supermodels and it dosnt help when you have a good friend who looks just like Elle McPherson and when you go out with her you see how men just drool over I guess to make it short I am generally happy with the way I look around my women friends however get me around men and I become very insecure as I believe that they are the main ones who buy into that perfect image thing- well the guys around here sure make me feel like that.......does any of this make any sense??????

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Old 04-27-2002, 08:09 PM   #32
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I was the skinny little stick girl you all hate, who could eat pizza and ice cream to her heart's content and never gain an ounce...

Then I went through puberty.

I'm almost 20, five feet tall and I weigh in at 135. Which I know is slightly overweight, but I don't look it because I have C/D cup breasts and wide hips. Thus my figure looks pretty balanced.

I don't believe in the idea of the "democracy of beauty"--that is, that cultural notions of beauty are in fact very open and democratic because *anyone* can be beautiful (physically.) Well, this is not true. Sure, people can get nose jobs and liposuctions and what have you these days, but only people who can *afford* it. And that's not all that democratic, now, is it?

I agree that people ought to eat and live in a healthful manner. I try to (though I obviously don't fully succeed! ). But what I have a problem with is the judgment of people who are overweight as people who "aren't trying." Some people are overweight, and they are no less deserving of love and respect for it.

Saying that people should love their bodies how they are doesn't mean that they shouldn't take care of those bodies. But a person should love their whole selves as they are, *while* working toward possible improvement. No one should judge themselves or be judged for carrying around a few extra pounds. I personally admire the campaign of those women at Harvard. They are not encouraging an unhealthy lifestyle; they are alerting everyone to the dangers of assuming that models are the average, which they are not.

Well, the God I believe in isn't short on cash, mister. --Bono

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In this dawning age
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Old 04-28-2002, 03:10 AM   #33
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Originally posted by dream wanderer:
I don't understand why you women let these things get to you????

Why aren't you happy with yourselves the way you are?

Why can't you tell those people who comment on your weight to go to hell (in a much nicer way of course)????????

I believe in being right...exercise and all that...but I'll be damned if I'm going to allow some unseen entitity to have control over my life...

This may seem harsh...but I just don't get it. If the women on the magazine covers are upsetting you...stop looking at them! If people's comments are bothering you...ignore them..
It's easier said than done, you know, especially with teen girls at the super-sensitive time of their lives. Try telling that to an overweight thirteen-year-old who gets called names and sniggered at every day at school.
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Old 05-02-2002, 07:57 PM   #34
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Give me a girl where I can I burn my arse on the light bulb when I'm on top anyday! I love curves!
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Old 05-06-2002, 06:28 PM   #35
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My best friend is recovering from anorexia. Let me tell you, when she was anorexic, I went through hell. There's nothing worse than having a friend with such a lack of confidence in themselves... I felt so guilty that I allowed my friend's perspective on herself to twist in such a way. I believe that being anorexic is one of the most hurtful and selfish things you could do to a friend. Watching someone you care about just fade away to nothing, ignoring your pleas, is just horrid. The fact that your opinion on their weight means nothing, and that they don't trust you when you yell "you aren't fat!" takes a lot out of a friendship.

Thankfully, somehow, she was pulled out of that mindset. I like to think I had a hand in making her realize the truth. I'm quite lucky. My body metabolism has always allowed me to eat whatever I wish without gaining any weight... It's odd. You can only control your diet and exercise to a certain extent. Your genes and metabolism control so much weight-wise. At my age (I'm a young teen), I can't even begin to count how many girls are insecure. They all want to look like a model. I'm thin, I've never had to worry. It's a helpless feeling when you watch a friend repeat over and over "I'm fat, I'm a loser" when they're so... thin.

I'm still the skinny little stick girl everyone hates (in paxetaurora's words). I wish people could realize that... obesity is defined differently for everyone. But of course, my opinion means nothing since I'm thin. So says everyone who's ever seen me.

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Old 05-07-2002, 01:02 AM   #36
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I'm really interested in people's perceptions of overweight and underweight people, and how the media or other influences might affect those perceptions.

I am personally appalled by the media's perception of what is ATTRACTIVE.
(UPDATE: I just read this great article that capsulized my thoughts about AMERICAN culture at this moment>
"As a newly affluent "youth market," it was baby boomers who helped usher in a commercialized popular culture that has become more powerful and awful than they could have imagined. You don't have to be Bob Dole or Dan Quayle to believe that virtues such as self-restraint and discipline are getting harder to sell, and ever more socially desirable. Adolescent drift and empty hedonism can't be brushed off merely as a phase, readily outgrown. For some vulnerable teen-agers, these traits can't be outgrown. Think of all the inner-city girls who have babies, and all the inner-city boys who are dead.[Hulbert, Slate 1996]"

A lot of how we perceive the world is governed by how we perceive ourselves. Not in all cases though.

Subconsciously people say things that are forced into their brains by media and NOT JUST fashion mags but MEDICAL SOURCES.

I have found the medical industry to be just as OFF as the fashion industry because they want to sell drugs like fen-fen and redux and such just like the fashion police want to sell their clothes.

When you're 42 and wearing size 14 and want to go to the beach this summer and you need a swimsuit...where do you go buy one? Does it matter if you buy it online or at a department store where most of the women shopping with you are the same size? Yes, in that department store are racks filled with suits best for your teenage daughter. Why is that? Cuz, your teenage daughter is obviously the BIGGEST market at the time. Society is telling our overweight mothers to not bother going out to the beach with their daughters! And the daughters are saying, I'd rather not go out to the beach with my mother anyway...sad, but true. The family unit is being trampled on and most families aren't doing a damn thing about it. It's all about the love of profit in the media. Parents be on guard what you allow into your household...even certain attitudes.

Most kids today in HS and JUNIOR HIGH are being praised more for their athletic abilities than for their cerebral ones. So, the corruption in perception is being propagated by major leaders of the community, teachers and coaches. I wish extracurricular sports was more about learning how to play as a team rather than competition and athletic prowess (which is purely genetic in some sports i.e. basketball, but short people can kick ass too; there lies the personal perception thing).

I know my body will not look like this forever. I know I will have to start eating better and excercising more. My maternal grandmother is overweight and has diabetes. My mother is overweight and has hyperglycemia. I'm 25 and the same height as them at my age; 5'7.5", and weigh the same as they did at my age BEFORE they had children; 145lbs. We are all big boned. So, I guess having kids has a LOT to do with changing body chemistry!
So, all those models out there with kids have told us that they had to work DAMN hard to keep their body in shape after giving birth 3 or 4 times.

My family has had to deal with "fat" comments from everyone including, yes, even ME. I've learned this about it. It was very sensitive for them and way out of line for ME to tell them what they should do with their bodies and about something as personal as weight. I know, that if I wasn't the little ms. I am that I would be hurt too by the slightest insinuation that I was too fat...even though I already knew that as a fact. However, my mothers being who they are did not immediately WHACK me in the face...they just were obviously hurt and said so in a nice way. They even said they understand why i was saying it and that they had thought the same thing....and that was that...end of discussion...never bring up the topic again. It didn't mean they didn't NOT like being overweight, it just meant it wasn't something they wanted to discuss with someone who had NO IDEA what it was like yet.

More recently, I have noticed more and more of my female friends jumping on the FITNESS bandwagon. These gals have NO kids AND they're already skinny! Why are they paying 30 bucks a month for gym aerobics? Cuz, it's the cool thing to do. Now, these are women who are very wise and think very well of themselves and know looks is not everything and that health is important...but PLEASE...why do they have to go to a gym? I'm thinkin it's more of a social thing cuz all the "other" women friends are THERE. We all know the owners of the gym personally and we know they are fat...however, we NEVER say it.

I was out with my lanky friend one day and she's married with no kids. She just came right out and said...."I need to workout cuz I need to get rid of this tummy." NOW, for HER this tummy is like a NATURAL curvature of the stomach after one eats a meal. It's like 3 cms out at the MOST. I tell her she doesn't have a tummy, but what she tells me is..."I can't fit in my dresses, I don't want to buy new it's a problem"...and I say, "The problem is that you don't buy the right clothes to begin with...the stretch kind". The point is...she obviously perceives herself as being THINNER than she really is otherwise she wouldn't buy the sizes she does. Lesson being....we need to be realistic about our bodies and buy for the times we'll be eating meals and not for the times when we'll be FASTING. p

So everytime i see in a commercial on t.v. talking persperation, bad breath, feminine odors, menstration, makeup, hair, etc. I know that it's the corporations trying to find my weak spot in my self perception. They want ME to feel that I NEED their product to be a productive/healthy woman in society; to be attractive. However, I know that I'm attractive and will still be attractive even after I'm "fat". Cuz, my mothers still are married, still have jobs and still have self-respect and are productive/healthy citizens! HA HA. They don't take themselves too seriously when it comes to human foibles. Thank you God for my family and my somewhat good genetics. I was born with all my braincells and fingers so I could type this "opinion" tonight. That's what matters.

[This message has been edited by ]{arao]{e (edited 05-13-2002).]
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Old 05-07-2002, 04:56 PM   #37
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Originally posted by ]{arao]{e:
[b]Most kids today in HS and JUNIOR HIGH are being praised more for their athletic abilities than for their cerebral ones. So, the corruption in perception is being propagated by major leaders of the community, teachers and coaches. I wish extracurricular sports was more about learning how to play as a team rather than competition and athletic prowess (which is purely genetic in some sports i.e. basketball, but short people can kick ass too; there lies the personal perception thing).
I'm in JH (HS next year), and I disagree with that statement. It may be true where you live, but not here. Sports are viewed equally with academic achievements. That's one thing I'm thankful about where I live. There's an even number of afterschool programs in HS dedicated to academic clubs (ie: science honors' club), social activity (ie: peer development programs), and sports (ie: lacrosse). If there is a difference, intelligence is placed above athleticism. Then again, perhaps my school is the exception, since you mentioned most kids.

I'm only disagreeing with that point. It's quite true that coaches promote competition and victory than teamwork. That's what you have to do in order to win, I suppose. It's not right. The media, as in music and entertainment, means so much to teens. I don't know where my life would be without my music or movie connection. I hate to use the word "idol," it sounds childish. Entertainment means so much... How many female musicians are there in the music business that you could label "fat"? Not that many. For teens who look up to celebrities, the lack of obese people definitely plays a part in their psychology.

You can throw out as many statistics as you wish about the entire country. But when you think of the "elite" stars that everyone knows, how many of them are fat? Entertainment and the public seems like it will only accept thin people. Aren't your teenage years all about trying to be unique and fitting in with others at the same time? Sounds tough. What happens in your teenhood affects you for the rest of your life. I've discovered that "idol-worshiping" and "superficiality" are two things that are not worthy of a high spot in my priority list.

Just a perspective from my view, a JH student, at least. ...Have to get out of this thread.

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Old 05-07-2002, 08:48 PM   #38
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Wow, flygirl, I teach students in 8th grade and not many of them are as articulate as you. Kudos to you for being on top of things.

It's OK to not agree with the statement that sports are more important than academics. But, coming from my point of view, as an educator, I see it day in, day out. My principal is fighting to try and bring academics into the forefront at my school because our state scores are so low and he's been met with opposition from the parents. Sad, but true. Many, many, many of my students come from homes where the parents have not completed even high school and to them, middle school promotion is the highest their children will go. So, seeing them play in sports or play an instrument in the mariachi band is *very* important to them. My principal isn't trying to get rid of the programs, but he thinks there should be a shift in the way extra-curricular activities are viewed. Unfortunately, the parents don't see it that way. Instead, they see the programs being taken away and the students being forced to actually learn something. EGADS.

It's a touchy subject because if many of the schools in California aren't turned around, the state will come in and take over. What will the parents do then? The state won't care about the mariachi band or the football team - they'll care about bringing the state test scores up.

That is so interesting that you brought up the "elite" members of the entertainment industry: are any of them fat? You are so right. None, if maybe a few are "average". Look at Carnie Wilson - she was huge compared to her sister/bandmates. She went and got her stomach re-routed and lost a bunch of weight. What she did was a life decision. For the rest of her life, she can't eat very much. Eating a whole apple would be too much for her to eat. I was just talking to my best friend the other day about her band that she's in. She wants me to be the drummer. I'm all for it. I have a helluva lot of endurance (I've been a swimmer all my life) and am looking forward to it. But, I'm also overweight. So is she. I told her, if we were to make it big, we'd have to go on some crash-course diet or something because heaven forbid if the ravenous vultures (whoops, I meant media) got ahold of us. Can you imagine if there was a singer out there who just happened to be a bit overweight? Oh, man, and how about that drummer?! She's as big as a freakin' house! EGADS! Sad, but soooo soooo true. If we want to try and "make it big" (hey, I'm all for it, but I'm still keeping my day job ), we have an image that needs to be upheld. Nowadays, it's not only the music that you produce, but it's the image that you portray.

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Old 05-07-2002, 09:06 PM   #39
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Well I stumbled on this topic and I figure that I will chime in.

As an exercise physiologist and personal trainer, I have heard quite a bit. From carb cutting to liquid diets to the cereal diet, it is all garbage.

It is a shame how the media portrays what is acceptable and what is not. However, we Americans are facing an epidemic of enormous proportions (no pun intended). Americans are overweight, that is no secret--55% of the American population is overweight (BMI of 25-29). 22% of them are obese (BMI 30-39) and 3% of them are morbidly obese (BMI of 40+) and these are just the numbers for people over 20. The numbers are not promising for children either.
Now, the word dieting makes me cringe. Dieting is NOT a good thing. Usually that results in a temporary weight loss and huge weight gains.
Eating a balanced diet is GOOD, dieting is BAD.

As for weight charts and body fat scales, well they are not always right. Some of things that people have mentioned are not entirely accurate here (such as body fat %) but remember, these charts were designed for a quick and easy reference. A height and weight chart takes no account for muscle mass. I am 5'9" and 187. Now by any chart, I am overweight and close to obese, however if you were to check my body fat, you would see that is isn't too high. So, do not put too much emphasis on those charts. Body fat percentage is a better estimate, however skinfolds are only +/- 4% which isn't that good.

As for exercise, well I can go on and on about that as well sound nutritional eating. If anyone wants any more info, email me, I will be glad to give some advice.
I will say that I am not a nutrtionist, nor am I qualified to council anyone who may think they have an eating disorder, however I do have knowledge of these things and can direct you to someone that can help out.

As for all that crap that is out there on the market (diet pills, ab belts, liquids), well, that is all they are, crap. Supplements, some work, some don't, some are dangerous, some are not so.
Not to pick on anyone, but whoever said that their brother was taking creatine and testosterone and all that other stuff and said thay he would have gotten bigger anyway, I would say, not a chance. Those things do work, however, are they safe???

anyway, I am done rambling, but please, if anyone wants to chat, drop me a line.


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