your SUV subsidizes terror, even if you have a yellow ribbon on it - Page 6 - U2 Feedback

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Old 08-27-2005, 01:07 PM   #76
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So SUVs can drive through five feet of snow? Are they somehow magical?

Most people in the U.S. live in flat urban areas who have zero need for SUVs, so that doesn't excuse all the "status seekers" in Southern California, for instance.

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Old 08-27-2005, 01:15 PM   #77
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Originally posted by starvinmarvin


Maybe you should invest in a shovel...LOL!!!!!
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Old 08-27-2005, 03:13 PM   #78
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"Axis of Evil"...ROFL.

"Bama may be crazy, but I gotta put in my 2cents here. New York State is not what some people think as crazy, but then, most people don't know that up until the '30's, the Klan used to be pretty active here. It's a real mind trip walking into the bookstore and going to the voliminous "Local Section" (Albany's history goes WAYYY Back) and opening up a book about the little town 20 minutes drive away and seeing pics of those little guys with white sheets.

Guess that's "crazy" in anegative way, but it might make the "Bamans" on here feel better.

As someone who used to live in Detroit until the '90s. let me vouch for the fact that yes, there is no public transport in that town. But, hey, it's DETROIT. There's no excuse, however, for wht Fiorello La Guardia did to NYC as early as the '30s. The first highway/suburban sprawl, what the LA Freeway is modeled after, is not Detroit or any other city, but NYC's highway system, which gutted many of the old Irish/talian/Jewish neighborhoods.

And yes, Germany invented the modern highway system...it still boggles my mind that it was Der Fuhrer himself who came up with the idea for a "people's car" (volkswagen).
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Old 08-27-2005, 03:47 PM   #79
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Heil Driver's wanted

Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama
First of all, I'd like to confess myself as a member of the FYM Axis of Evil, along with nbcrusader (Ford Explorer), deep (Volvo SUV) and someone else who I saw post in another thread that they have a Nissan XTerra. I have a 1996 Jeep Cherokee (not a Grand Cherokee). Also, please keep full surveilance of Axis "sleeper cells" including Martha (fuel-efficient Honda CRV), and Anitram (fuel-efficient Nissan in Canada, but still an SUV).

~U2Alabama
Add me to the FYM Axis of Evil, with a DiamondSexy (another one to add to the list) 1999 Jeep Wrangler.

I was living high in the late 1990's, and thought "I've always wanted a Jeep" and "It is a convertible AND A 4-wheel drive...best of both worlds for the great state of Minnesota."

Well, three sates, another layoff and six + years later...it has lost its function and fun. It has allowed me to arrive work on-time and get through some tough snow situations (especially this last winter here in Pennsylvania). It has also allowed me to have some nice summertime fun, whether it be a hearty suntan on the way to a Radiohead show, or an open-roofed drive-up Movie Date.

But, alas, Monday will be my last day with the vehicle that gets 14 MPG street, 17 MPG highway (makes me the most criminal of all the Axis, I believe). I am switching to one of the Der Fuhrer's "People' Car."


Quote:
Originally posted by Teta040 however, for what Fiorello La Guardia did to NYC as early as the '30s. The first highway/suburban sprawl, what the LA Freeway is modeled after, is not Detroit or any other city, but NYC's highway system, which gutted many of the old Irish/talian/Jewish neighborhoods.

And it continued as a trend with the Eisenhower System, going through minority areas and cleaning them out to put in the Interstate system. My grandfather (despite not being a minority) lived in one of these areas. An exit ramp for I-94 no exsists where his childhood home once stood.

But also of note is what Detroit did to many U.S. cities in the 1950's and 1960's. I am not sure if it was GM or Ford, but one of the two sent out Sales people, and offered Public Transit Authorities kickbacks if they would purchase buses and pull out trolley rails.
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Old 08-27-2005, 06:16 PM   #80
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You should post more often, Bama.
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Old 08-27-2005, 06:26 PM   #81
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Hmmm, I use public transport does that put me on the Axis of Weasels?
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Old 08-27-2005, 06:30 PM   #82
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Hmmm, I use public transport does that put me on the Axis of Weasels?

I believe it makes you a treehugging leftie.
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Old 08-28-2005, 01:10 AM   #83
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This thread is troublesome, as we all subsidize terror to some degree, on the premise of the thread. Every aspect of our society uses oil and mark my words there will be many more wars fought over getting and keeping oil. I have no answers, other than I think it is good to live modestly if possible.
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Old 08-28-2005, 04:39 PM   #84
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Originally posted by Kieran McConville
I have no answers, other than I think it is good to live modestly if possible.


yes. of course it does.

good gosh, people, it's amazing how, when our favorite possessions come under scrutiny, we lose everything in these all or nothing arguments. it's not that all useage of SUVs is unethical; it's unnecessary useage of SUVs is unethical. and i think that 99% of SUV use in this country is unnecssary.

it's akin to an 11 year old who begs his mother to buy him $120 basketball shoes, but he only plays in gym class.

i have never said ban SUVs. i've never denied that some SUVs have practical use. i have said, repeatedly, that most of the people who have SUVs don't really need them -- i don't think anyone would dispute that. if Bama thinks he uses his SUV responsibly and it is an integral part of his life, then fine. there's nothing i can do about it. but what we can do about it is place higher fuel standards on SUVs, tax them more, and not give a damn when SUV owners complain about high fuel prices.

until then, i think it would be wise for all SUV owners to read the list of complains about them that go well beyond increasing our oil dependence, and then take steps to use their SUVS, as has been suggested above, moderately.

and make your other car a hybrid.
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Old 08-28-2005, 06:04 PM   #85
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But I haven't complained about the gas prices. In fact, I was pleasantly surprised to see that they had gone down here about 5-10 cents yesterday, only to go back up today due to the rigs in the western Gulf of Mexico being shut down due to Katrina. But I'll deal with it.

I didn't lose anything in "these all or nothing arguments," I only sought some clarifications, wanting to see if there can be exceptions to the rule. Moreover, I've seen some rather broad condemnations of SUVs in general (even "99%" is a bit brad in my opinion).

And I don't have another car. It would cost much more for me to purchase another car to have on hand for non-SUV qualifying purposes when I could probably spend that money on a more worthy cause.

~U2Alabama
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Old 08-28-2005, 06:08 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

but what we can do about it is place higher fuel standards on SUVs, tax them more, and not give a damn when SUV owners complain about high fuel prices.
I think SUVs are taking a beating as an easy target when in fact minivans are no more fuel efficient and there are plenty of regular sedans (especially the luxury V8s, I might add) which are even less fuel efficient.

Like I said, my parents have sedans which are less efficient than my SUV. And they both have Japanese cars, relatively small things, not the huge American sedans.

So why should I be taxed more and they slip under the radar for having worse cars for the environment?
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Old 08-28-2005, 06:45 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
Like I said, my parents have sedans which are less efficient than my SUV. And they both have Japanese cars, relatively small things, not the huge American sedans.

So why should I be taxed more and they slip under the radar for having worse cars for the environment?
Good point. Maybe the taxes should go by MPG rating? The better the mileage a vehicle gets, the lower the taxes, and vice versa?
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Old 08-28-2005, 06:47 PM   #88
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Originally posted by Sue DeNym


Good point. Maybe the taxes should go by MPG rating? The better the mileage a vehicle gets, the lower the taxes, and vice versa?
That sounds like a much more rational approach than taking the blanket approach of taxing or penalizing only SUVs.
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Old 08-29-2005, 10:04 AM   #89
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makes sense to me.

yes, SUVs are an easy target, and you can find exceptions all over, but i think the main point still stands: the US uses way, way more oil than it needs to, this oil is mostly used to fuel transportation, and there are many, many ways to reduce our dependency through making good decisions when we purchase modes of transportation. there are ways of both making SUVs better -- not classifying them as small trucks but classifying them as cars -- and make it more attractive to purchase a hybrid via tax incentives.

also, another one of my main points is one that's more philosophical and not just tied to SUVs, though i think SUVs are symbolic of the problem: your purchases affect the lives of the people around you. the roads, especially on the East Coast, are more clogged because of SUVs. city parking is more scarce because of SUVs. roads in the new exurbs are monstrous to make room for the SUVs, and this eats up more of America's disappearing landscape. and it goes on and on and on.

in short, Americans tend to blame everyone but themselves for higher gas prices. but when you're actually going backward in fuel efficiency and your government subsidizes that trend, you have a problem. when you're a president who cozies up to the Saudis and then guzzles more gas than anyone else, you might begin to have a p.r. problem. so, let's toughen fuel standards, double gas taxes (yes, i am serious), remove all tax breaks for SUVs and explore alternative energy sources. and if you live alone as more and more people do, and you live in an urban area, get a bike.
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Old 08-29-2005, 02:50 PM   #90
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if you live alone as more and more people do, and you live in an urban area, get a bike.
In all seriousness that can be harmful to your health and increase the risk of heart disease; sucking in all that particulate matter on the way to work.
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