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Old 08-25-2005, 08:59 AM   #61
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Originally posted by zoney!
In Detroit, where Autos are king, I believe that the public transportation system does not extend to the airport (meaning an super expensive taxi ride, or a car rental).
We don't really have any public transportation system at all, let alone one that extends to the aiport. There's the "people mover," but it only covers a small section of downtown, is regularly broken, and most consider it unsafe.

Detroit's idea of public transportation is the highway.
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Old 08-25-2005, 09:03 AM   #62
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Originally posted by stammer476


We don't really have any public transportation system at all, let alone one that extends to the aiport. There's the "people mover," but it only covers a small section of downtown, is regularly broken, and most consider it unsafe.

Detroit's idea of public transportation is the highway.


and all this is the fault of the collusion between the auto industry, the construction industry (for lack of a better word), and the deal they made with the Eisenhower administration who used the idea that cars and highways would be a more effective way to evacuate the major cities in the event of a nuclear war.

and all it's done is pollute our atmosphere, support Middle East tyrants, and make us fat.
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Old 08-25-2005, 09:15 AM   #63
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Originally posted by Irvine511
and all this is the fault of the collusion between the auto industry, the construction industry (for lack of a better word), and the deal they made with the Eisenhower administration who used the idea that cars and highways would be a more effective way to evacuate the major cities in the event of a nuclear war.

and all it's done is pollute our atmosphere, support Middle East tyrants, and make us fat.


Well, the United States is certainly not the only country that is car dependent. The first country to build auto-bahns/motorways/highways was Germany! Although now Germany is considered to have a pretty good public tranport system.

Here in Ireland we are spending billions on improving road infrastructure. Ridiculous.
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Old 08-25-2005, 09:47 AM   #64
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Originally posted by Irvine511




hmmmm ... i went to college 5 miles south of Vermont and i drove around in a standard, front-wheel drive Toyota and was perfectly fine.

what did people do before there were SUVs?


Ever been to Northern VT?....I guarrentee that Toyota will be sitting under 5 feet of snow going nowhere all winter.
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Old 08-25-2005, 12:02 PM   #65
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Ever been to Northern VT?....I guarrentee that Toyota will be sitting under 5 feet of snow going nowhere all winter.


been all over vermont -- i'm what you would have called a "Flatlander" -- and i don't suppose the roads remain under 5 feet of snow until spring arrives around Memorial Day weekend? do the snowplows not work up there? is the amount of yearly snowfall dramatically different between Bennington and Burlington?

love your state, btw.

i do think an argument can be made that people in particularly harsh climates have more of a need for SUVs; but this is not an excuse for either their failure to meet the same MPG requirements as regular cars must or the fact that people living in, say, Florida have no need for an SUV whatsoever.

though, ironically, when driving on snow, i'd feel much safer riding with Vermonter in a Toyota than with a Floridian in an SUV.
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Old 08-25-2005, 10:42 PM   #66
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Originally posted by U2democrat
I hate SUVs...not just for their consumption of gas and their ability to roll over...but when little people like me are in our meek Toyota Corollas surrounded by the monsters...it's not fun!
No, it is not. It's rather scary driving when you're surrounded by vehicles you cannot see around or through. You don't know what's ahead of you, what's beside you, what's behind you. You can't see upcoming road construction, emergency vehicles or pedestrians. All you see are those ugly H2s and 4x4s, their headlights right in your rear view mirror, their arrogant owners blasting their horns at you if you have the audacity to allow someone to switch lanes in front of you.

I'd say 54% is a pretty good estimate of SUVs on the roads of Phoenix, Arizona. I mean, gosh, you sure need those powerful engines and huge tires to navigate our flat, straight city streets. Either that, or we have an awful lot of people who feel the need to advertise their ... er... shortcomings...

But seriously, the pollution here has been horrible this year. Between the wildfires and the increase of gas-guzzlers on the roads, I've never had so many sinus and upper respiratory infections in any year that I've had in the last few months, and I'm not the only one. If you look at the skyline from an upper story window, it looks like someone took an artist's charcoal stick and dragged it across the horizon.

I would be very happy if they would come up with a viable energy alternative to oil, or a decent mass transit system for our ridiculously spread-out city. Until then, the best I can do is drive a decently fuel-efficent vehicle, drive as little as possible, and maybe encourage others to do the same.
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Old 08-26-2005, 09:27 PM   #67
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Can it be ethical to own an SUV if it is functional to you?

First of all, I'd like to confess myself as a member of the FYM Axis of Evil, along with nbcrusader (Ford Explorer), deep (Volvo SUV) and someone else who I saw post in another thread that they have a Nissan XTerra. I have a 1996 Jeep Cherokee (not a Grand Cherokee). Also, please keep full surveilance of Axis "sleeper cells" including Martha (fuel-efficient Honda CRV), and Anitram (fuel-efficient Nissan in Canada, but still an SUV).

I purchased my 2-door, base model Jeep Cherokee 9 years ago. It had 11 miles on it when it was delivered. It now has over 198,000 miles on it. It has been very practical for my use in my occupations, in my personal life, and I will confess, in my recreational life. It is not a "huge" or even a "large" SUV. When I purchased it, it was probably considered a "midsize" SUV although now it would probably be a small SUV (but larger than a "mini-SUV such as a CRV or RAV-4).

As I said, it has been very practical and functional for many uses since I have had it. It is 4 x 4 but it does not have a lift kit or larger-than-normal tires. I have needed 4x4 off road capability on several occasions in my line of work, in my personal use, and, again, confessionally, in my recreational use. Four Wheel Drive is different than "all wheel drive" when it comes to off-road capability and the all wheel drive capabilty available on some cars AND some SUVs would not serve the same purpose. Trust me. I've seen people who have attempted it. Mine also has the trailer towing package and I have used this on a couple of occasions. It has an all-enclosed passenger area with a backseat that can have the seat cushion folded up and the seatback folded down, or the seat cushion can be removed and the seatback then folded down for more room. This is not a loaded, plush, luxury SUV with leather interior, so on many occasions I have utilized this flexibility to haul stuff much in the same way I would load up debris in the back of a pick up truck.

I recall one Christmas when my employer at the time participated in an "Angel Tree" event where employees families purchased toys and clothes for the kids of poor families who otherwise may not have had Christmas. Someone asked that I load the items up in my Jeep to haul over to the collection warehouse. Now, they could have loaded the items up in a Camry, a Neon and a Civic, but then you are taking in 3 vehicles what I could take in 1. So in an unexpected way, the tough little Jeep had one brief moment of practicality.

Recreationally, I do confess that it is very practical when my wife and I want to pack up for a week long vacation and take our beach chairs and luggage and what not. It is quite practical for hauling my ocean kayak as well (which is longer than the roof line of many sedans). And when I go to a football game on a Saturday and tailgate all day, I can load up my grill/cooler combo, a 19 inch tv, tailgate chairs, and a few packs of cookies and Zapp's potato chips, not to mention 2-3 of my friends. And it can crawl over rough terrain right up to our weekly tailgate spot. And our dog's crate fits perfectly in the back of my Jeep when the seat is folded down. It is a wire crate which would have to be disassembled and re-assembled (neither of which I recall how to do) if I owned a Chevy Cobalt.

Another confession: Based on my size and my posture, I have become quite accustomed to the feel of driving this vehicle. When I sit behind the wheel of my parents' Oldsmobuick sedan, I have to crane my neck to be able to see over the front end of the car. Station wagons are all-wheel drive or 2-wheel drive. Mini-vans are too large for my puirposes and don't get much better gas mileage. Pickup trucks don't have the convenience of an all-enclosed passenger/cargo area. My gas mileage is 17-20 MPG and I am not complaining about the high cost of gas so please don't tell me to quit complaining about thehigh cost of gas.

Believe it or not, I even know someone who makes practical use of a Chevrolet K1500 Suburban, the 15-19 MPG version mentioned in the blame it on Bush article. They have 4 kids, who have several close friends and cousins that live in the nearby vicinity and go to 2 or 3 different schools (based on their age/grade levels). The Suburban seats 8 and is 2 wheel drive. Quite easily, they can carpool their 4 kids and 3 others (which they do) to the different schools. One parent's family lives across the state and has a vacation home in Florida. They can load up their kids and a couple of friends or cousins and everyone's luggage in the back of the Suburban, without having to put a fuel wasting luggage rack on top, and haul everybody and everything in one vehicle. And they aren't complaining about fuel.

So, I ask those of you who have such strong opinions on the subject an SUVs and the terrorist supporters who drive them or have freinds or relatives they have not condemned yet still drive them: can it be ethical for someone to own an SUV if it is practical and functional for them? I recall seeing Irvine state in another thread that he believes it is unethical to own an SUV, but I ponder, are there exceptions? I think I recall reading somewhere that Bono or one of the members of U2 has in his collection, heaven forbid, an old Land Rover or G-Wagen. Could they get an exception?

~U2Alabama
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Old 08-26-2005, 09:33 PM   #68
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Re: Can it be ethical to own an SUV if it is functional to you?

Quote:
Originally posted by U2Bama

So, I ask those of you who have such strong opinions on the subject an SUVs and the terrorist supporters who drive them or have freinds or relatives they have not condemned yet still drive them: can it be ethical for someone to own an SUV if it is practical and functional for them?
I agree with this.

Mine is fuel efficient, but it is still an SUV like you say. However, it is the only car we have that can tow a boat (my father's) behind it. This is important to him as he is an avid fisherman. The only other option for us would be to buy a pick up, but then we lose on cabin space.
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Old 08-26-2005, 09:40 PM   #69
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Originally posted by U2Bama
I think I recall reading somewhere that Bono or one of the members of U2 has in his collection, heaven forbid, an old Land Rover or G-Wagen. Could they get an exception?

~U2Alabama

I don't know a thing about their personal vehicles but I do know they drive to the venues in 4 seperate Escalades and/or Denalis.


btw, add me to the membership list for the axis of evil SUV owners. I drive a Chevy Trailblazer (V6, 18/20 mpg highway) and though I'll admit I've never blazed any actual trials in it, I have hauled quite a bit in the cargo area. I could certainly buy something with better gas mileage but I probably only drive it an average of 10-15 miles per week and I only fill up every 2-3 weeks.
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Old 08-26-2005, 09:41 PM   #70
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I have to say I really object to SUVs.

Ye should all get Ferraris instead.
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Old 08-26-2005, 09:42 PM   #71
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Re: Re: Can it be ethical to own an SUV if it is functional to you?

Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


I agree with this.

Mine is fuel efficient, but it is still an SUV like you say. However, it is the only car we have that can tow a boat (my father's) behind it. This is important to him as he is an avid fisherman. The only other option for us would be to buy a pick up, but then we lose on cabin space.
Thanks for adding this. And just as I hope for all angles in the respondents' replies, I also ask for all additional angles to my question. You have posted another pertinent issue, that of towing a boat (which, as I know from a little experience, towing a boat not only towing it down the road, but also up and down a slimy, algae-infested boat launch ramp. Of course, you may get a "Well, he shouldn't own a boat because boat fuel harms ...(insert aquatic concerns here)... And I welcome that because all such angles are worht discussing.

~U2Alabama
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Old 08-26-2005, 09:44 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bono's American Wife



btw, add me to the membership list for the axis of evil SUV owners.
Thanks for coming forward. I'm sure they'll put your name on the no-fly list and FOX News will braodcast your home address.

~U2Alabama
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Old 08-27-2005, 09:33 AM   #73
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You should post more often, Bama.
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Old 08-27-2005, 12:50 PM   #74
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You should post more often, Bama.
Yes indeed! We're from the same crazy state.
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Old 08-27-2005, 12:57 PM   #75
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Originally posted by Dismantled




Ever been to Northern VT?....I guarrentee that Toyota will be sitting under 5 feet of snow going nowhere all winter.
Maybe you should invest in a shovel...LOL!!!!!
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