Your Ideas on Alternative Christian Worship Services

[the iron horse]

I'm not thinking about what is called 'contemporary worship'

but something very alternative / different

Our local Chistian community is about to start once a month services and I would like to hear your thoughts / idea/ suggestions



Thank you

 

[deep]

I know this place
when you give a donation
you get a little dance

 

[shart1780]

What exactly is an alternative form of worship?

 

[AEON]

As long as it is in Spirit and in Truth - there are no other rules.

 

[BVS]

Are we talking snakes?

















Some more detail may be in order...

 

[AEON]

Are we talking snakes?

okay - I admit - that cracked me up...

 

[BVS]

okay - I admit - that cracked me up...

 

[Liesje]

Personally, I prefer a more traditional worship style because I believe the worship/spiritual aspect of a church should be one of reverence and reflection, not performance. However, any church that is devoted to fostering a sense of community and the accountibility of its members while genuinely worshipping the Lord is just fine by me. I'm not about to condemn churches just because I choose not to go there.

In the US, we are lucky to have so many choices. People I know often complain about how hard it is to go "church shopping" to find the church where you fit in best, but in many countries, worshipping in ANY form can get you killed.

 

[nathan1977]

I grew up in house churches, where the focus of the time was on each other. Relational meetings as opposed to programmed ones, stripped-down worship with acoustic guitars as opposed to band stuff.

 

[shart1780]

One thing I've noticed about big, planned out services is that the focus often seems to shift towards everything fitting together and causing others to "fee" than what it's really meant for--God.

 

[Liesje]

What do you mean by "big, planned out services"?

I ask because I've always gone to a very traditional church and we are often accused of worshipping as such.

I just spent a few hours at a new, contemporary church that during the offering was playing a video where people were accusing the larger, traditional churches of being "surface" and more concerned with form than content. The funny thing is, at this new church, I felt like an actor trying to fit into a script. I mean, they even give you an outline of the sermon, with fill-in-the-blanks! I spent most of the time trying to figure out when not to sing because there was going to be the weekly drum solo, when it was expected to raise my hands, and how many people I had to hug until I was "accepted" than just quietly and reverently reflecting on God's word as it was interpreted by the preaching minister. Talk about a big, planned out service! Sure, my church back home follows the traditional Order of Worship, but our music leadership doesn't have to spend a week rehearsing for the next service and we're not expected to follow word-for-word outlines of the morning's message.

 

[shart1780]

Well, sometimes at the church I attended a while back they'd put so much effort into making the worship service look big, epic and emotional in a way that it kind of took the focus off of God IMO. At least in my mind it did, and others have told me the same thing. It seemed to me as if there was a little too much effort showing off the music pastor's daughter's operatic voice and children's singing and dancing numbers (gotta please the parents and grandparents) and not enough on just focusing attention on God and getting closer in mind and spirit to him. It got to the point where every other week almost felt ike a Christian variety show.

Also during sermons the preacher seemed to spend so much time elaborating on analogies using powerpoint, silly pictures, movie quotes, stories etc. etc. that I felt like I was being treated like a baby. By the time the sermon was over I'd rarely feel like I'd learned something new that I could aply to me life. I'd just be reminded of simple Biblical truths that maybe new baby Christians would learn.

Looks like we had similar experiences heh heh. I also filled out the note by notes on the sermon. I amost felt like a child.

 

[80sU2isBest]

What do you mean by "big, planned out services"?

I ask because I've always gone to a very traditional church and we are often accused of worshipping as such.

I just spent a few hours at a new, contemporary church that during the offering was playing a video where people were accusing the larger, traditional churches of being "surface" and more concerned with form than content. The funny thing is, at this new church, I felt like an actor trying to fit into a script. I mean, they even give you an outline of the sermon, with fill-in-the-blanks! I spent most of the time trying to figure out when not to sing because there was going to be the weekly drum solo, when it was expected to raise my hands, and how many people I had to hug until I was "accepted" than just quietly and reverently reflecting on God's word as it was interpreted by the preaching minister. Talk about a big, planned out service! Sure, my church back home follows the traditional Order of Worship, but our music leadership doesn't have to spend a week rehearsing for the next service and we're not expected to follow word-for-word outlines of the morning's message.

I agree with you 100%. I don't like the new style of worship, to be honest. A lot of the time, they seem like big dramatic productions, and it is often the word of God that gets lost in the chaos. I am not saying that every contemporary church is this way, just many that I have been to. If I want big dramatic productions, I'll watch a movie or a play.

 

[Liesje]

I had a great talk with my fiance today after the big, contemporary service, complete with powerpoint, video, a drama, and a band (yes, they played solos). This is the gist of what I tried to articulate, this is why I, personally, prefer my more traditional, reverent service:

1) Contemporary Christian Music (CCM)
- most people that are avid supporters of CCM, especially CCM used during church aren't even aware of where this form of music came from and what the purpose of this music was. I won't get into it here because it would deserve it's own thread, but if you want a GREAT overview from a pretty objective perspective, read Charlie Peacock's "At the Crossroads". CCM WAS NEVER intended to be used during church services.

- All of the churches I've been to that use exclusively CCM during their services are also turnoffs because they NEVER provide the music, only lyrics on PowerPoint. Sorry, but if I've never heard a song before, especially a shitty one that has zero logical chord progression and inconsistent harmony, there's no WAY I can even try to sing along without the music.

- I have never been and will never be a fan of a performance style of worship music. Church is about being reverent before God; everyone is on a level playing field. I don't want to see soloists and a band and "music leaders". I want to sing, with everyone else, a musical piece based on cannonized Scriptures.

2) PowerPoints

- I hate powerpoints in church. It's mainly a very personal reason: I'm a computer HelpDesk technician, so I deal with incompetant people asking zillions of questions about powerpoints on a daily basis. The LAST thing I want to do during a church service - a time of reflection and renewal - is stare at a powerpoint screen!!!

- I once attended a lecture on the place of powerpoint and other visual media during church services. I don't remember much, but I remember it really striking a chord with me and agreeing with the basic premise - like ANY presentation, the powerpoint should only enhance the service and provide a visual example of something that simply cannot be communicated in any other form. To date, I have yet to attend a service that actually achieves this. I DONT want a re-cap of the Scripture reading, I DONT want an outline of the sermon, I DONT want some random clip-arts posing as a half-assed analogy. Powerpoint is visual media, and just like other visual media, it is a form of art, which is a gift from God. To use it so liberally, ignorantly, and lazily is not only annoying, but actually offensive to me.

3) Fill-in-the-blank sermons - I don't like these at all because to me they are very distracting. I mean this in two ways:

a) When I have a fill-in-the-blank sermon, I tend to be reading ahead, or listen to the sermon, focusing on catching the next point on the outline, ticking them off in my head. It's distracting because it keeps me from simply sitting back and listening to the message.

b) On a deeper level, it's distracting because while I'm listening for the answer to the next fill-in-the-blank, I'm NOT listening for something more personal that I might take away from the message. I'm too focused on getting the minister's point and miss a point that may not be in his outline, but might be more relevant to my spirituality.

4) The messages - OK, this may be offensive to some, but please read my WHOLE explanation before getting mad! I find most contemporary messages to be rather obvious and surface level. They rarely teach me anything new and have never presented me with the kind of spiritual challenges I need in order to reaffirm my faith and understand what it means for me to be a Christian. Now, today I was thinking through how I can reconcile this opinion, because I won't deny that these types of churches with these surface level messages are attracting WAY more NEW Christians than the traditional churches like mine. This is what I came up with:

At first I wanted to break it into the churches that are more outreached based and the churches that are more theologically based. While I agree that certain churches often do one or the other quite well and lack in the other area, I decided not to approach it this way because to me, when a church belongs to a denomination, each member church is accepting and committing that denominations stand on outreach AND theology. It's not fair to judge them based on criteria that they are supposed to both support and agree upon, regardless of how well it's executed.

So how can I break it down? I decided to think of it like this: there are churches that seem to apply themselves to the mission of making God/christianity applicable to their memebers, and then there are churches who seek to make themselves relevant to God. The former are the more contemporary churches. They are great, great churches for people who are new to Christianity or people who may need to start from the beginning again. They bring God, who is difficult for even the most experienced believer to understand, into the realm of what we can relate to - music, drama, charismatic presentations, technology, visual stimulation, etc. A few years ago, I may have condemned this style, but a very wise person pointed out to me that when God wanted to communicate his ultimate message through Christ, he formed the message based on HUMAN norms. The message came through Christ, who was fully human. It did not come from an incomprehendable being booming down orders from the heavens. So the contemporary churches do an amazing job of making God/Christianity relevant to new/young Christians by communicating at THEIR level.

The more traditional, theology-centered churches are like Part Two. They focus on teaching people how to make themselves relevant to God and God's will. You can't do this without an attitude of reflection and reverance and at this point, it's necessary to delve a bit deeper into Scripture and more challenging theology. I think this is why I here many people say "I don't need a little skit showing that 'Jesus loves the little children.' I want to be challenged, I need something deep."

Both of these types of churches have their own place in the world. Both are necessary. Both are relevant in different ways and neither should be made to feel subordinate to the other. I was very fortunate to grow up in a family that did not spoon-feed me or force me into one belief, but also provided the means for me to explore Christianity and the various denominations and theologies. My parents never said "only this is right" or "no you are wrong". They also supported the direction I chose for myself. At age 21, I'm committed to certain beliefs and certain aspects of faith, so based on how I'm thinking of these two types of churches, it's only natural that a contemporary service can't fulfill my spiritual needs. Also, I don't think I should feel guilty for thinking this way.

I enjoy contemporary services because I enjoy hearing the testimonies of people who have come from the lowest of lows into Chrisitanity and been completely revitalized. However, when it comes to revitalizing my own spirituality, it just doesn't happen for me. I feel like I'm going through the motions, mainly because I am. I've been in that place before and worked through that experience and now that my heart is set, I want my head challenged as well.

One other thought that I had today is that I'd like to admit I'm sort of biased against the contemporary churches because so many of my friends left my traditional church over petty things like wanting newer songs or wanting guitars in church. Music is very important to me, so I can understand that it is a serious bone of contention when it comes to worship, but what I can't understand is why these people just pack up and leave with NO attempt to make changes within their own church? To me that's like saying "Sarah's family has better rules and a nicer house so I'm just going to disown my family and move in with them." If you want change, then CHANGE! To me, my church family is far too important to toss aside because of a differences in preferred worship styles. I don't like how so many people are starting to treat church - which is as much about building a family and community as it is about praising God - like fast food. It's cheapening Christianity as a whole and it's no wonder we look like stupid drones just going through the motions. If I asked my friends what being a Christian means to them, I dare say many would just say "I don't know" because they've never bothered to think about it. Sadly, most of the atheists I know are more committed to their beliefs than my Christian friends.

Anyway, just a few things I've had on my mind.

 

[shart1780]

Wow, what a great post! I agree with absolutely EVERYTHING you just said!

 

[nbcrusader]

As long as it is in Spirit and in Truth - there are no other rules.

With this as the proper starting point, I think Lies captured the essence of my stance on worship. I prefer a service that is intellectually challenging as that is what draws me closer to Christ.

 

[maycocksean]

LivLuv, I really enjoyed that post. A lot of food for thought in what you said.

My two cents on power points: I hate them. In my church pastors tend to use them as crutches, and sermons usually end up being longer and less interesting when powerpoint is used. I think it makes a lot of speakers lazy.

I also agree with your conception of corporate worship. It's not entertainment (and we live in a society where EVERYthing has to be entertaining). One of my favorite Christian musicians, Rich Mullins, once said (and this is a loose paraphrase) that the best thing about going to church, is sitting next to a fellow believer and worshiping God. He said he liked going to church and listening to the old men sing the old hymns out of tune. It's not about the show. It's about being with other believers and worshiping God together.

 

[Muggsy]

power point at the church??? EEEEeeeewwwwww!!! I hate power point anywhere , besides it takes away the "mistery" of the ceremony... too plastic for me I guess.

each three weeks, there is a service for children at my neighborhoods' church (Catholic). The kids sit in the first rows, they read the Bible, and they prepare a little play about the gospels for their parents and the people who goes there. After that there's always white tables in the gardens of the church where people can buy cakes and sit together to talk and share with the nun s and the priest.

 

[Liesje]

power point at the church??? EEEEeeeewwwwww!!! I hate power point anywhere , besides it takes away the "mistery" of the ceremony... too plastic for me I guess.

Yes, I agree, and I like the use of the word 'mystery'. When you listen to a sermon, you're supposed to open yourself up to the Holy Spirit. When you have PowerPoints and fill-in-the-blank outlines pre-dictating "the message", there's no mystery and no room for the Holy Spirit to influence what the sermon means to you as an individual.

 

[AEON]

As a former Catholic - I miss the Mass in a huge cathedral with a single beautiful famale voice leading the hymns. If only the homilies were better - I probably would have stayed Catholic.

I too, like the word "Mystery."

 

[dietcokeofevil]

Contemporary Christian churches to me feel like God's Amway meeting...

or vice versa?

 

[CTU2fan]

Do people really do all that stuff in church? I mean, powerpoints...seriously? I really had no idea.

Seems to me folks putting these elaborate presentations together risk making the whole thing about the production, rather than God...

I just don't see the need. It's church...sing some songs, testify, let the pastor preach, and that's it. No CCM, no powerpoints, no videos...

 

[Liesje]

This thread is old, but since my original posts, my feelings have not changed. I have attended many more contemporary style churches, but I always leave their services feeling unchallenged and unfulfilled. One service was particularly bad in that they alloted more time for showing promotional videos than the sermon and usual order of worship. Who goes to church to watch promotional videos?!?!

I think that the technology CAN be used appropriately, but too easily it's not. It's used for stuff like...showing promotional videos in church. If people don't care to take the time to learn about the appropriate uses, then I'd rather be against it as a whole. It really isn't necessary and to date I haven't been to a church that's made appropriate use of powerpoints and videos.

 

[verte76]

I'm a practicing Catholic. I understand that's not everyone's cup of tea. I hate the idea of using power point in church.

 

[Devlin]

I always rather want to take a nap in traditional church - bores me right to bed. Five hours of what boils down to droning puts me right out - reminds me that I need some sleep. Well, that and I always have had a problem with churches, anyway; all that telling you how to think, walk, talk, dress..well, let's just say that unless someone comes up with something spectacular, I won't be attending. I rarely even attend Baha'i things for that same reason - much too much droning on and much too little acceptance of the times we live in. It's pretty difficult for many a youthful person to be cooped up for two to six hours.


I dunno, personally, I've seen powerpoint used in a service before, and it worked out pretty well. But then, this was a Baha'i service, so I dunno how it'd differ from a Christian one.

 

[Liesje]

Five hours?!?! No wonder! I agree, five hours of ANY form of worship would kill it for me as well.

 

[anitram]

I don't get the Powerpoint at all. You're not in a boardroom meeting.

In Jesus Camp, they actually prayed for their Powerpoint presentation. It was really one of the more bizarre things I've seen recently.

 

[coemgen]

Wow. This has been on my mind lately. Cool thread.

I grew up in the Lutheran church. I still love the good old school Lutheran hymns. They had a real sacred feel to them I can still remember feeling as a child. I now go to a more modern church (my wife grew up Pentecostal, so you could say it's a happy medium). I say modern because I hate the word "contemporary." I see contemporary as kind of "in the era of" or like "adult contemporary." I see modern as up-to-date. Cutting edge. Our church is a bit of both, but moving in the modern. I can't stand happy-clappy worship songs that have the word "awesome" or "awesome" or even the word "awesome." You know?
I agree with the Biblical phrase stated earlier that we should worship in truth and spirit. I know the spirit to be creative. I think we should be, too. God created us out of love, why don't we create something out of love for him? Why don't we stop rehashing the same Top 40 worship songs? I think worship can come out in anything -- paintings, music, dance, whatever. Art can be worship. I think there's a big movement in the church to realize this. (Mosaic and Imago Dei are two churches that come to mind.) We recently had a worship band from a church in Poland we support lead our worship. It was the best worship music I've ever heard. It sounded like the freaking Cardigans.
The Polish are probably telling jokes about us when it comes to worship. (How many Americans does it take to say "awesome.")
The best line I heard on worship came from Rob Bell, who did those incredible Nooma videos. He filled out a questionnaire and it asked where he worshiped.
"Everywhere I go," he replied.

 

[Liesje]

The best line I heard on worship came from Rob Bell, who did those incredible Nooma videos. He filled out a questionnaire and it asked where he worshiped. "Everywhere I go," he replied.

Are you a Rob Bell fan? I went to his church two Sundays ago, but he was not there.

I was/am very hesitant about his church because many of the people I know that go there will admit they go because he is a great motivational speaker, but also admit they feel overwhelmed by the size and lack a sense of church community. When I went to hear Bono speak here in town I was with my friend and her sister, both big Rob Bell fans and former attendants of his church. I heard the sis say "Oh, there's Rob Bell, I should go say hi, but I hardly know him and it would be weird....I supposed it's bad that I feel uncomfortable saying hi to my own pastor...." That spoke volumes to me. Perhaps it's just the way I was taught and raised, but theology is very important to me and I need to know where my reverend stands personally. Community is also very important to me and I'm grateful I feel comfortable stopping to chat with my reverend if I run into him out of context. I can't imagine going to a church only to hear one person's testimonies over and over and then sing some rock songs with Christian lyrics (when I went there, they played The Cure's 'Just Like Heaven'). I also know many, many people that go to Bell's church just to hear him. Now, I prefer my church mainly because I prefer my reverend, but I also enjoying knowing almost every family and being asked to participate in groups and events. I'm not comfortable with the amount of people I've met who go to Mars Hill simply because they are Rob Bell fans. None of these said people are involved in any groups, programs, or events at this church. I've always wondered if Bell knows he has this much power and draw. It's a great thing and though I haven't yet been able to hear him speak, I can't deny that he must be amazing if this many people are obsessing over his church. But I think the more popular you are, the more pressure and responsibility you have to help channel people in the right direction.

 

[coemgen]

I agree with you completely, Lies. Community and a personable pastor are important to me, too. In fact, my wife and I are in my pastor's small group.
I've watched a lot of the Nooma videos and read the first few chapters of Velvet Elvis and a few interviews of Bell, and I think he's got a cool perspective and understanding of things. Coming from a Lutheran background, I really appreciate how he respects and draws from tradition as much as he is modern.
That's my exposure to him though. I think he's at an odd spot because he's like a celebrity. I don't think he's in the same vein as a TV evangelist, and I think he's in it all for the right reasons and he's genuine, but being a pastor and a celebrity can't be good for the church or for him. At the very least it can't make things easy. (I'm sure it's a cool church.)