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Old 07-17-2006, 07:51 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
As long as it is in Spirit and in Truth - there are no other rules.
With this as the proper starting point, I think Lies captured the essence of my stance on worship. I prefer a service that is intellectually challenging as that is what draws me closer to Christ.
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Old 07-18-2006, 12:43 AM   #17
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LivLuv, I really enjoyed that post. A lot of food for thought in what you said.

My two cents on power points: I hate them. In my church pastors tend to use them as crutches, and sermons usually end up being longer and less interesting when powerpoint is used. I think it makes a lot of speakers lazy.

I also agree with your conception of corporate worship. It's not entertainment (and we live in a society where EVERYthing has to be entertaining). One of my favorite Christian musicians, Rich Mullins, once said (and this is a loose paraphrase) that the best thing about going to church, is sitting next to a fellow believer and worshiping God. He said he liked going to church and listening to the old men sing the old hymns out of tune. It's not about the show. It's about being with other believers and worshiping God together.
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Old 07-18-2006, 12:54 AM   #18
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power point at the church??? EEEEeeeewwwwww!!! I hate power point anywhere , besides it takes away the "mistery" of the ceremony... too plastic for me I guess.

each three weeks, there is a service for children at my neighborhoods' church (Catholic). The kids sit in the first rows, they read the Bible, and they prepare a little play about the gospels for their parents and the people who goes there. After that there's always white tables in the gardens of the church where people can buy cakes and sit together to talk and share with the nun s and the priest.
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Old 07-18-2006, 01:06 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Muggsy
power point at the church??? EEEEeeeewwwwww!!! I hate power point anywhere , besides it takes away the "mistery" of the ceremony... too plastic for me I guess.
Yes, I agree, and I like the use of the word 'mystery'. When you listen to a sermon, you're supposed to open yourself up to the Holy Spirit. When you have PowerPoints and fill-in-the-blank outlines pre-dictating "the message", there's no mystery and no room for the Holy Spirit to influence what the sermon means to you as an individual.
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Old 07-18-2006, 01:23 AM   #20
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As a former Catholic - I miss the Mass in a huge cathedral with a single beautiful famale voice leading the hymns. If only the homilies were better - I probably would have stayed Catholic.

I too, like the word "Mystery."
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Old 03-10-2007, 11:43 PM   #21
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Contemporary Christian churches to me feel like God's Amway meeting...

or vice versa?
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:40 AM   #22
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Do people really do all that stuff in church? I mean, powerpoints...seriously? I really had no idea.

Seems to me folks putting these elaborate presentations together risk making the whole thing about the production, rather than God...

I just don't see the need. It's church...sing some songs, testify, let the pastor preach, and that's it. No CCM, no powerpoints, no videos...
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Old 03-11-2007, 02:24 PM   #23
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This thread is old, but since my original posts, my feelings have not changed. I have attended many more contemporary style churches, but I always leave their services feeling unchallenged and unfulfilled. One service was particularly bad in that they alloted more time for showing promotional videos than the sermon and usual order of worship. Who goes to church to watch promotional videos?!?!

I think that the technology CAN be used appropriately, but too easily it's not. It's used for stuff like...showing promotional videos in church. If people don't care to take the time to learn about the appropriate uses, then I'd rather be against it as a whole. It really isn't necessary and to date I haven't been to a church that's made appropriate use of powerpoints and videos.
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Old 03-11-2007, 02:38 PM   #24
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I'm a practicing Catholic. I understand that's not everyone's cup of tea. I hate the idea of using power point in church.
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Old 03-11-2007, 07:15 PM   #25
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I always rather want to take a nap in traditional church - bores me right to bed. Five hours of what boils down to droning puts me right out - reminds me that I need some sleep.:P Well, that and I always have had a problem with churches, anyway; all that telling you how to think, walk, talk, dress..well, let's just say that unless someone comes up with something spectacular, I won't be attending. I rarely even attend Baha'i things for that same reason - much too much droning on and much too little acceptance of the times we live in. It's pretty difficult for many a youthful person to be cooped up for two to six hours.


I dunno, personally, I've seen powerpoint used in a service before, and it worked out pretty well. But then, this was a Baha'i service, so I dunno how it'd differ from a Christian one.
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Old 03-11-2007, 07:22 PM   #26
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Five hours?!?! No wonder! I agree, five hours of ANY form of worship would kill it for me as well.
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Old 03-11-2007, 08:18 PM   #27
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I don't get the Powerpoint at all. You're not in a boardroom meeting.

In Jesus Camp, they actually prayed for their Powerpoint presentation. It was really one of the more bizarre things I've seen recently.
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Old 03-12-2007, 12:53 AM   #28
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Wow. This has been on my mind lately. Cool thread.

I grew up in the Lutheran church. I still love the good old school Lutheran hymns. They had a real sacred feel to them I can still remember feeling as a child. I now go to a more modern church (my wife grew up Pentecostal, so you could say it's a happy medium). I say modern because I hate the word "contemporary." I see contemporary as kind of "in the era of" or like "adult contemporary." I see modern as up-to-date. Cutting edge. Our church is a bit of both, but moving in the modern. I can't stand happy-clappy worship songs that have the word "awesome" or "awesome" or even the word "awesome." You know?
I agree with the Biblical phrase stated earlier that we should worship in truth and spirit. I know the spirit to be creative. I think we should be, too. God created us out of love, why don't we create something out of love for him? Why don't we stop rehashing the same Top 40 worship songs? I think worship can come out in anything -- paintings, music, dance, whatever. Art can be worship. I think there's a big movement in the church to realize this. (Mosaic and Imago Dei are two churches that come to mind.) We recently had a worship band from a church in Poland we support lead our worship. It was the best worship music I've ever heard. It sounded like the freaking Cardigans.
The Polish are probably telling jokes about us when it comes to worship. (How many Americans does it take to say "awesome.")
The best line I heard on worship came from Rob Bell, who did those incredible Nooma videos. He filled out a questionnaire and it asked where he worshiped.
"Everywhere I go," he replied.
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Old 03-12-2007, 11:52 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen

The best line I heard on worship came from Rob Bell, who did those incredible Nooma videos. He filled out a questionnaire and it asked where he worshiped. "Everywhere I go," he replied.
Are you a Rob Bell fan? I went to his church two Sundays ago, but he was not there.

I was/am very hesitant about his church because many of the people I know that go there will admit they go because he is a great motivational speaker, but also admit they feel overwhelmed by the size and lack a sense of church community. When I went to hear Bono speak here in town I was with my friend and her sister, both big Rob Bell fans and former attendants of his church. I heard the sis say "Oh, there's Rob Bell, I should go say hi, but I hardly know him and it would be weird....I supposed it's bad that I feel uncomfortable saying hi to my own pastor...." That spoke volumes to me. Perhaps it's just the way I was taught and raised, but theology is very important to me and I need to know where my reverend stands personally. Community is also very important to me and I'm grateful I feel comfortable stopping to chat with my reverend if I run into him out of context. I can't imagine going to a church only to hear one person's testimonies over and over and then sing some rock songs with Christian lyrics (when I went there, they played The Cure's 'Just Like Heaven'). I also know many, many people that go to Bell's church just to hear him. Now, I prefer my church mainly because I prefer my reverend, but I also enjoying knowing almost every family and being asked to participate in groups and events. I'm not comfortable with the amount of people I've met who go to Mars Hill simply because they are Rob Bell fans. None of these said people are involved in any groups, programs, or events at this church. I've always wondered if Bell knows he has this much power and draw. It's a great thing and though I haven't yet been able to hear him speak, I can't deny that he must be amazing if this many people are obsessing over his church. But I think the more popular you are, the more pressure and responsibility you have to help channel people in the right direction.
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Old 03-12-2007, 12:57 PM   #30
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I agree with you completely, Lies. Community and a personable pastor are important to me, too. In fact, my wife and I are in my pastor's small group.
I've watched a lot of the Nooma videos and read the first few chapters of Velvet Elvis and a few interviews of Bell, and I think he's got a cool perspective and understanding of things. Coming from a Lutheran background, I really appreciate how he respects and draws from tradition as much as he is modern.
That's my exposure to him though. I think he's at an odd spot because he's like a celebrity. I don't think he's in the same vein as a TV evangelist, and I think he's in it all for the right reasons and he's genuine, but being a pastor and a celebrity can't be good for the church or for him. At the very least it can't make things easy. (I'm sure it's a cool church.)
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