Your buddy Michael Moore

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nbcrusader

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Just ran across this article from the Independent.

Click Here

The second paragraph reads as follows:

"What we did not expect was to feel so enraged at one point that we almost walked out. It was when Moore went into a rant about how the passengers on the planes on 11 September were scaredy-cats because they were mostly white. If the passengers had included black men, he claimed, those killers, with their puny bodies and unimpressive small knives, would have been crushed by the dudes, who as we all know take no disrespect from anybody. God save us from such stupid white men, especially now, when in the US and the UK, black people's lives are being ripped to shreds by drugs, lawlessness, fear and frightful violence plus the endless circle of racism, exclusion and incarceration. This is not awesome, Mr Moore; it is a calamity, for descendants of slaves unimaginably more so."



:|
 
from The Guardian, Wednesday November 13, 2002

further elaboration:

"Why didn't they cross the line?" asks Michael Moore. He's talking about the parents and police who hesitated for hours to enter the building where America's worst school shootings had just taken place and children lay bleeding.

"Nobody wants to get their hands dirty," he answers his own question in disgust. "Nobody wants to get hurt. We've all given up."

Nobody could accuse Moore of not crossing the line. Nor of giving up. Moore is a one-man crusade against feebleness.

He's a wake-up call, a call to action, a kick in the mental backside. Crossing the line is what he does.

There's no line harder for Americans to cross than September 11. But Moore steps across that one, too. "I've been reluctant to talk about it because it sounds harsh," he says. But reluctance is not in Moore's DNA. He says the kind of people who fly on airlines are people who believe that when there's a mess, someone else will always clean it up. So they let the hijackers capture the planes armed only with knives. "But do you think that if there had been 90 African Americans passengers they'd have just sat there? Or 90 coal miners? Or 90 skinheads?"
 
What a bunch of BS. What would Mr. Moore have done if he were on the first plane to hit the Towers? I'd like to see if Mr. Moore has the balls to stand in front of each family member who lost someone on one of those planes and say that.
 
First of all the link you posted dosen't work.

Second, you posted someone's opinion, someone who was offended and not the actual words Michael said. We could have endless arguments over some nameless faceless persons offense, but what the info that needs to be given are the words that offend.

Third Michael uses comedy when talking about otherwise non-funny situations to make them easier to talk about. If you turn the TV on to any comedy show, you will see ppl talk about "white ppl do this, latinos do that" etc. And if that isoffensive to you, then that's the issue, not the fact that Michael Moore said it, but that it's a comedic tactic used at all.
 
Um yea, I'd like to see Mr. Moore say this in front every single family member who lost someone on one of those planes. Oh, don't get upset, its just comedy. I wonder how many of the family members would agree with that?
 
Well it's been over a year now, and some ppl don't think it should be joked about at all, and some ppl use humor as a way to get thru tought times.
It's very presumptuous of you to think you know how those thousands of ppl would feel. Michael Moore lost a few close ppl on that day as well, so there's at least one person using humor to get thru a tough thing.
 
I don't presume to know, but Michael Moore does! Its very presumptuous of Michael Moore to think that its ok to use this type of comedy which might be funny in his mind, but certainly not to others who lost loved ones on those planes! Did it ever occur to him to keep his "healing comedy" in private for himself, since after all he supposedly said it to "heal himself" and get through it.

Its presumptuous of Michael Moore to state what certain individuals would and would not do in a certain situation. Mr. Moore is not very intelligent if he thinks individuals behavior in a certain situation can be explained by race and economic class. The more I read his statements the more it appears he knows nothing about the people who lost their lives on those planes or the manner in which events happened on 9/11. Strange that he would make those statements in light of what Todd Beamer and several other "white middle class men"(as he would call them) did on a flight over Pennsylvania!

"He says the kind of people who fly on airlines are people who believe that when there's a mess, someone else will always clean it up. So they let the hijackers capture the planes armed only with knives."

Has Mr. Moore ever been on a plane that was hijacked before? What would he of done if he were on the first plane to hit the towers?
 
Perhaps you should do some research on MM.
He has been in a hostage situation before if memory serves me...

And it seems to me that the issue, if there is an issue, is comedians making light of Sept. 11.
Not that MM said something, because he is not the only person to make comments about 9-11.
Or perhaps ppl are just looking for a way to make MM look bad :sexywink:
 
Sparkysgrrrl said:
First of all the link you posted dosen't work.

Is this suddenly a crime? Are you implying he did it on purpose?
I will post a link for him. ]http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=366725


Sparkysgrrrl said:
Second, you posted someone's opinion, someone who was offended and not the actual words Michael said. We could have endless arguments over some nameless faceless persons offense, but what the info that needs to be given are the words that offend. [/B]


Yes, he did post what someone typed. He never claimed they were Michael Moore's words. It is pretty clear it is someone presenting the words and why they were offended by them.



Sparkysgrrrl said:
Third Michael uses comedy when talking about otherwise non-funny situations to make them easier to talk about. If you turn the TV on to any comedy show, you will see ppl talk about "white ppl do this, latinos do that" etc. And if that is offensive to you, then that's the issue, not the fact that Michael Moore said it, but that it's a comedic tactic used at all. [/B]

Right, and Trent Lott said his words for comedic effect, and BOOM we can hang him out to try! It is a double standard. Michael Moore's made comments implying that one race is superior to another in that situation. That is probably one of the first examples I have seen that actually fit the definition of racisim.
 
Dreadsox said:
Right, and Trent Lott said his words for comedic effect, and BOOM we can hang him out to try! It is a double standard.
um yes, there is a double standard between politicians and journalists
what do you expect?

I don't know what Mr. Moore is trying to achieve with this kind of reasoning so - as far as I'm concerned - he could keep things like this to himself
 
I like Moore a lot, but this bit is not his finest hour. I don't understand why he chose the passsengers on the 9/11 hijacked planes to prove his point. A stretch to say the least.
 
Sparkysgrrrl said:
Perhaps you should do some research on MM.

Or perhaps ppl are just looking for a way to make MM look bad :sexywink:
[/QUOTE


:hmm: research?.... Notwithstanding several paeans posted on this board regarding MM, nor the sheer entertainment value of his "documentaries", there is evidence detailing inaccuracies in his "documentaries" Cursory searches on the internet will provide a treasure trove.

With regard to the current subject matter, nor detracting from the racist stereotype paraphrased by the author of the article, one is left to wonder whether MM observations are a classic case of projection.

Finally, Ppl, making MM look bad? I think he doesn't need any help in that dept.

http://us.imdb.com/PeopleNews/

Satirist Moore Storms Out of Britain

American satirist Michael Moore has stormed out of Britain after a bust up with the London theatre hosting his one-man show. The Bowling For Columbine moviemaker performed Michael Moore - Live! to packed audiences for two months before Christmas at The Roundhouse in Camden, North London. But on the penultimate night he reportedly flew into a rage, verbally attacked everyone associated with the theatre because he thought he wasn't being paid enough. During the performance he complained he was making just $750 a night. A member of the stage crew says, "He completely lost the plot. He stormed around all day screaming at everyone, even the ?5-an-hour bar staff, telling them how we were all conmen and useless. Then he went on stage and did it in public." Staff retaliated by refusing to work the following night, which led to the show being held up for an hour. Eventually he made a groveling apology to staff and the angry audience finally took to their seats. A source reports that Moore then packed his bags and flew to New York the next day without saying thank you or goodbye to anyone.
 
In Michael Moore's defense.
It should be taken into account that shortly before making these hostile remarks
he had just viewed that war-mongering, film, "The Two Towers".
 
Yep, that definitely explains and excuses his remarks and behavior.
 
Salome said:
um yes, there is a double standard between politicians and journalists
what do you expect?

Ya, I know.....I thought about that about an hour later....I have a different standard for both.
 
actually, if you were in that same situation you would not have fought either. Pilots and flight attendants are taught that they should comply with a hijacker's demands because in most cases, they just want to make a statement and it puts less lives at risk to go along with the hijackers.

Do you think those passengers knew what was going to happen to them? Tom Beamer et all may be heroes but would they have acted the same if they didn't know what had happened already.

No one knew where those planes were going, no one knew those buildings were going to collapse. Hindsight is 20/20.
 
deep said:
In Michael Moore's defense.
It should be taken into account that shortly before making these hostile remarks
he had just viewed that war-mongering, film, "The Two Towers".

I take it this is Mooreist satire?

~U2Alabama
 
I wasn't implying that he was lying, I was letting him know that the link didn't work.

I think the issue here is using race in as humor.
I have watched standup camedians for years do their routine on how white ppl act this way and black ppl act that way. It does not offend me. I know the difference between comedy and actual racism

So to me it seems like ppl just want to jump on Moore because they don't like him to begin with, if it is a problem with him, then I would hope they carry that sentiment over in other areas, like Saturday Night Live, or Comic View.
 
Sharky,

"actually, if you were in that same situation you would not have fought either. Pilots and flight attendants are taught that they should comply with a hijacker's demands because in most cases, they just want to make a statement and it puts less lives at risk to go along with the hijackers."

"Do you think those passengers knew what was going to happen to them?"

Thats my point. Moore makes the statement that the "white" people on the plane just sat there and did nothing. Mr. Moore obviously does not understand what you just stated above.

Sparkygrrl,

I think anyone that expressed the view Moore said about 9/11 is wrong and certainly does not understand what happened on that day.
 
Give it up, Sparkysgrrrl.

Michael Moore essentially said that the passengers on the planes that hit the WTC and *died* were fucking cowards, and then he said that they're cowards because they're white middle-to-upper-class people.

Sharky hit the nail on the head above. Unless you know you're going to die, you cooperate with the hijackers because there's an excellent chance you'll escape safely if you sit tight. The hijackers said that they had a bomb (which has happened before) and that they were going to land the plane safely if everyone cooperated (which happens most of the time, unlike crashing into a building, which had never before happened in a terrorist attack). How were the passengers on the first two planes to know what would have happened?
 
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speedracer said:
Give it up, Sparkysgrrrl.

Michael Moore essentially said that the passengers on the planes that hit the WTC and *died* were fucking cowards, and then he said that they're cowards because they're white middle-to-upper-class people.

Maybe 90 boyz from the hood or 90 pro athletes would have averted the WTC attacks, maybe not. But slagging off on the victims like that was completely uncalled for.


another difference in interpretation, I don't see "cowards" as much as uninvolved and compliant.

fact: it was white guys who rushed the plane over Pa

actually, Moore is giving a compliment to African Americans, who he includes with miners et al (very tough folk) and saying they would act. a bit stereotypical on the violence assumed, i admit

but why is 90% (caution, made up statistic) of the NBA African-American? if it were all white guys out there, we would still be watching layups.
 
DebbieSG said:



another difference in interpretation, I don't see "cowards" as much as uninvolved and compliant.

fact: it was white guys who rushed the plane over Pa

actually, Moore is giving a compliment to African Americans, who he includes with miners et al (very tough folk) and saying they would act. a bit stereotypical on the violence assumed, i admit

but why is 90% (caution, made up statistic) of the NBA African-American? if it were all white guys out there, we would still be watching layups.

Sorry Debbie, I've been editing my post extensively.

Note that 99.4% of the National Hockey League is white. (I think there are three black players out of 700-800 players.)

And personally I don't think that 90 black people would have necessarily attacked the hijackers, unless they all happened to be in a gang or something. Most black people who live in the cities aren't in gangs and will give a guy their wallet if they're attacked with a dangerous weapon.
 
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speedracer said:


Sorry Debbie, I've been editing my post extensively.

Note that 99.4% of the National Hockey League is white. (I think there are three black players out of 700-800 players.)

that's because all those guys weren't tall enough to get in the NBA...

ha ha, i'm just joking :)

the terrorists wouldn't even lift a knife if those guys were filling a plane...that's maybe what m moore would say, ducking out of the theater...

reminds me of a comedian named Barry Sobel who had this great schtick..."of course the Chinese are *great* drivers, Jews are *very generous* etc etc, very racist, no?
 
speedracer said:



And personally I don't think that 90 black people would have necessarily attacked the hijackers, unless they all happened to be in a gang or something. Most black people who live in the cities aren't in gangs and will give a guy their wallet if they're attacked with a dangerous weapon.

and why aren't there very many gangmembers riding around on airplanes? all the civilized folk are busy jetting to their vacations, etc.
 
Humorous Germans, British gourmands, blah, blah blah.

Michael Moore just doesn't realize that (1) his analysis of the situation is incorrect, and more importantly (2) you don't satirize people who have been murdered.

I wonder if Moore has ever called the Jews wusses for not overthrowing the concentration camps from the inside? That seems to be the next logical step.

Or the black Americans for whom Moore supposes himself a champion--their forefathers must not have been very bright or assertive if they were stuck in slavery for 200 years, right?
 
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speedracer said:
Humorous Germans, British gourmands, blah, blah blah.

Michael Moore just doesn't realize that (1) his analysis of the situation is incorrect, and more importantly (2) you don't satirize people who have been murdered.


my people do. did you ever see History of the World, Part I? Mel Blanks...has a great scene about the Inquisition...
 
I too agree with Sharky.

In hindsight it's easy to agree with Moore, but understanding the mindset of 99.9% of people prior to 9/11 I have to disagree with his comments.

I do believe that after that horrific day, most people, no matter what their race, will be more hostile toward hijackers.
 
STING2 said:
Sharky,


Sparkygrrl,

I think anyone that expressed the view Moore said about 9/11 is wrong and certainly does not understand what happened on that day.
no question m moore = an ass.
 
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