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Old 01-08-2008, 03:32 PM   #16
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Originally posted by deep
seriously,


I like the guy just fine

but I do think this rush to Obama is unwarranted

and very well may come back to haunt the Dems in November


he only bacame a U S Senator in 2005?
I agree with this, although I don't think it will hurt the Democrats in November. I think he would win anyway.
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:40 PM   #17
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Shades of Bobby and folks do fear for Barack. It's real.

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Old 01-08-2008, 03:47 PM   #18
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Though I generally like Obama, most of his policy stances are fairly mainstream.

I think if either Kucinch or Paul were elected they would be at much more serious risk of being assassinated by the military industrial complex.
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Old 01-08-2008, 03:47 PM   #19
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Old 01-08-2008, 04:51 PM   #20
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Originally posted by deep
I
I like the fellow just fine

But, I am not disperate to make him something he is not

I care very much about "race relations" in America,

we have a terrible history and there is still much to be done.


Obama is not our "get out of jail free card".
deep
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Old 01-08-2008, 05:55 PM   #21
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Bill Clinton targets media coverage of Obama


(CNN) – On the eve of the New Hampshire primary, former President Bill Clinton criticized the media for not pressing Barack Obama more fully on Iraq, and accused the Illinois senator of shifting his position to reflect changing attitudes on the war.

"It is wrong that Senator Obama got to go through 15 debates trumpeting his superior judgment and how he had been against the war in every year, enumerating the years, and never got asked one time, not once, 'Well, how could you say that when you said in 2004 you didn't know how you would have voted on the resolution? You said in 2004 there was no difference between you and George Bush on the war," Clinton said at a campaign stop in Hanover, New Hampshire.

"And you took that speech you're now running on off your Web site in 2004. And there's no difference in your voting record and Hillary's ever since."

He added, "Give me a break. This whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen."

Clinton's wife, New York Sen. Hillary Clinton, is battling Obama for the Democratic presidential nomination.

The former president briefly acknowledged that his wife's senior campaign advisor, Mark Penn, was mistaken to claim that Obama had no bounce out of Iowa after winning the state's caucuses because the poll numbers on the day after were relatively unchanged.

Then he abruptly changed the subject — suggesting that Obama's campaign had employed underhanded tactics.

"What did you think about the Obama thing calling Hillary the senator from Punjab? Did you like that? Or what about the Obama handout that was covered up, the press never reported on, implying that I was a crook. Scouring me — scathing criticism over my financial reports. Ken Starr spent $70 million and indicted innocent people to find out that I wouldn't take a nickel to see the cow jump over the moon.

"So you can take a shot at Mark Penn if you want. It wasn't his best day. He was hurt. He felt badly we didn't do better in Iowa," said Clinton. "But the idea that one of these campaigns is positive and the other is negative when I know the reverse is true — and I have seen it and I have been blistered by it for months — is a little tough to take. Just because of the sanitizing coverage that's in the media doesn't mean the facts aren't out there."

He added, lightheartedly, "Otherwise, I do not have any strong feelings about that subject."

The former president made the remarks as polls showed his wife trailing Obama in this important first-in-the-nation primary state.

Update: Responding to the comments later Tuesday, Obama said the Clinton campaign was "frustrated," and he dismissed the notion the press has gone easier on him.

"Maybe I've been missing something, but it seems like you guys have been reporting on me the entire year," Obama told reporters. "I remember this summer when we were down 20 points, we were getting knocked around pretty good. And I didn't hear the Clinton camp complaining about how terrible the press was."

Fishbowl DC

Journo Love for Obama

NBC's Brian Williams took to MSNBC today at noon and had this to say:

WILLIAMS: I interviewed Lee Cowan, our reporter who covers Obama, while we were out yesterday and posted the interview on the web. Lee says it's hard to stay objective covering this guy. Courageous for Lee to say, to be honest. The e-mail flood started out we caught you guys, we never did trust you. That kind of thing. I think it is a very interesting dynamic. I saw middle-aged women just throw their arms around Barack Obama, kiss him hard on the cheek and say, you know, I'm with you, good luck. And i think he feels it, too.
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Old 01-08-2008, 05:56 PM   #22
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In what political observers called a shocking display of anger from a former President of the United States, Bill Clinton today keyed the car of Illinois Senator Barack Obama.

Mr. Clinton's attacks on Senator Obama have become more scathing in recent days, but few Democratic insiders expected his rhetorical attacks to turn into outright vandalism.

That is precisely what happened, however, in the parking lot of a Dunkin' Donuts in Nashua, New Hampshire, where Mr. Obama and his aides had stopped for an early morning campaign appearance.

Spotting the Illinois senator's car in the lot, a wild-eyed Mr. Clinton pulled out his key ring and "started twirling it on his finger like a six-shooter," according to one eyewitness.

Saying he was "damned sick and tired" of everything going Mr. Obama's way, the former President dragged his keys across the length of the senator's car, creating a deep gash in the paint job that experts said would cost hundreds of dollars to repair.

As news of Mr. Clinton's attack on Mr. Obama's automobile spread like wildfire across New Hampshire, political insiders branded the former president's move as a tactical mistake that could turn off Democratic voters.

"Keying another candidate's car is really beneath the dignity of a former President of the United States," said Carol M. Foyler, a longtime media advisor to Democratic candidates. "That's the kind of thing you want surrogates to do."

For his part, Mr. Clinton was unrepentant, telling reporters "you ain't seen nothing yet."

"Where does he live?" Mr. Clinton shouted at the press corps. "I'ma go TP that bastard's house."

Andy Borowitz is a comedian and writer whose work appears in The New Yorker and The New York Times, and at his award-winning humor site, BorowitzReport.com.
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:09 PM   #23
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^

I will bet right here that some conservative idiot blogger thinks that's real and runs with it.
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:40 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
It is reasonable to compare Obama to JFK and MLK jr

but only if you want to disregard the life histories and accomplishments of JFK and MLK jr

Not if your comparision has to do with his effect on people, which is the extent of my comparison. This guy is galvanizing people in a similar way to the way that JFK did. Whether he lives up to the enthusiasm people have for him is certainly up for debate. Certainly there are many people who feel that Kennedy did not live up to the hype and was really only an average president. As a president you can argue about how effective or skilled he was but nobody can deny how he captured the imagination of the country. Obama seems to be doing the same thing and that is undeniable.

Quote:
Originally posted by deep
So if Obama is your man primarily because you choose to see him as black and young
and you want to fill his very commendable life and very short list of accomplishments
with images of JFK and MLK jr

Then be my guest

I like the fellow just fine

But, I am not disperate to make him something he is not

I care very much about "race relations" in America,

we have a terrible history and there is still much to be done.


Obama is not our "get out of jail free card".
I wouldn't see Obama as a get out of jail free card by any means.

To be honest, I'm a little uncomfortable with all the Obamamania and I definitely don't want to get lumped into that even though I've been a fan for of his for awhile. It's probably what hardcore U2 fans felt like when the Joshua Tree came out and all of a sudden everyone LOVES U2 and you're thinking "Yeah, well, where were you a year ago?" It's a kind of snobbish resentment, I admitt.

The flip side is that I'm sure there Obama will have his "Rattle and Hum" moment, i.e. backlash. Certainly his opponents are really turning up the heat, and I think it comes from a naked jealousy. What he has, money can't buy and a campaign strategist can't plan--they can't imitate what he's doing so they HAVE to tear him down, to try to "wake people up" that he might not be "so great." I'm not sure how it will work--if people will buy into the negativity or if they will see it as all the more reason to support Obama as he is about postivity while they are seen as "going negative"
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Old 01-08-2008, 06:54 PM   #25
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen

He added, lightheartedly, "Otherwise, I do not have any strong feelings about that subject."
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Old 01-08-2008, 07:22 PM   #26
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He reminds me more of RFK than JFK.

As I said in other posts, he has JFK's former speech writer working for him. Ted Sorenson has to be up there in age doing this stuff.
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Old 01-08-2008, 08:01 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean
I agree with you on the Kennedy comparison(s).
Quote:
Originally posted by ntalwar
What about institutionalized discrimination, overcoming perceptions, winning a Senate election, and winning a caucus in a white state - all by the age of 46.
.......................................................................
Or we could be like the French who ignore racial statistics and pretend there is no discrimination, when in fact they have a lot of discrimination.
I think that's a little harsh--deep was hardly suggesting that racial discrimination doesn't exist here, and I'm inclined to agree with him that defending MLK comparisons by exclaiming about Obama's winning a "white state" (in fact, the more prevalent national trend is for an inverse relationship between a locally larger-than-average black minority and electing black politicians to national office) and Obama's having won a Senate election (in fact, Obama is Illinois' 16th black Congressperson and 2nd black Senator) seems both overdrawn and an odd basis for MLK comparisons specifically. And while I'll grant that wishful thinking can conceivably cut both ways here, I can also understand his finding it somewhat discomfiting that MLK seems to be getting held up as the natural, default comparison for any black man whose path to a distinguished public service career and recognition as a highly gifted speaker unsurprisingly included struggles with institutionalized racial discrimination. That's certainly no insult--one needn't be a King or a Kennedy to justly inspire public admiration and perhaps be seen as a role model by/for some particular demographic, after all--but I do think deep's concerns about not prematurely overloading Obama with expectations and projections and assorted fantasies of national reconciliation that no one could possibly live up to are reasonable ones. To be fair, I realize Obama himself is more invoking MLK/JFK/etc. as symbols of hope and inspiration than suggesting we identify them with him somehow, but in the hyperreactive world of Presidential campaign rhetoric, that can be a risky hand to overplay.
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Old 01-08-2008, 08:21 PM   #28
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Hillary was a Republican when JFK was president and MLK was alive. She supported Goldwater in 1964. She thinks that we should vote for her because she has a uterus. I won't campaign for her if she wins the nomination then I'd hope that Bloomberg enters in the race. I'm a Democrat and a feminist, so that can give you an idea on how much some of us in party would wish she would go away.
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