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Old 05-17-2006, 06:11 PM   #16
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Are all these groups on the sexist bandwagon as well?
It's sexist in that there are never going to be similar recommendations that men always be prepared for pregnancy, as, after all, it takes two to have "unplanned pregnancies."

Certain lifestyle choices will affect the vitality of sperm and/or the likelihood that one's sperm will be damaged enough to cause birth defects.

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Old 05-17-2006, 06:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
It's sexist in that there are never going to be similar recommendations that men always be prepared for pregnancy, as, after all, it takes two to have "unplanned pregnancies."
Is it? Are we now in a world where every piece of information, advice, policy, whatever, must be "paired" with similar advice for the opposite sex?

No need to look for intent - just make the accusation and force them to prove you wrong.
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Old 05-17-2006, 06:18 PM   #18
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I just did a quick search and found this

http://www.fasalaska.com/DadsBirthDefects.html

"Conclusion

The secret to a healthy family is in the hands of the father as well as the mother. The new research that has been carried out has shown how much a father can affect the life of his unborn child. Alcohol consumed months before conception can cause defects in the sperm. Since sperm cells are made continuously throughout a man's life, they are at more risk of mutation, thus increasing the chance that the baby may have problems. A male should plan ahead for a healthy family. Good steps would be to quit smoking, drinking, and using drugs, and also do as much to protect oneself from exposure to harmful chemicals at work. Such actions will not only lengthen a person's life span, but will also increase the possibility of having healthy children in the future."
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Old 05-17-2006, 06:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Is it? Are we now in a world where every piece of information, advice, policy, whatever, must be "paired" with similar advice for the opposite sex?

No need to look for intent - just make the accusation and force them to prove you wrong.
You're missing the point, as usual. There doesn't need to be an immediate pairing of advice as other advice is given.

However, the fact remains that federal health guidelines telling men to be always on-guard for pregnancy is never going to happen. Never. And that's where accusations of sexism have merit.

Sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. doesn't need overt "intent." After all, religious fanatics don't look for "intent" when they're on their persecution complex. It's just a recognition that no study, no advice, no anything is free of personal bias, regardless of the best of intentions.

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Old 05-17-2006, 06:56 PM   #20
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i think all men should be prepped as potential impregnators and be given free condoms and comprehensive sex education.
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Old 05-17-2006, 07:49 PM   #21
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LOL, Irvine Well, if they think they can get Americans to stop drinking as well as smoking, fat chance. I think we tried something like this 80 yrs ago, it was called Prohibition, and it fizzled out.

And thanks for the info, ILuv. Glad to see I eat some of that stuff on a regular basis anyway. Conspiracy theories or not, healthy eating advice on any level is good.
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Old 05-17-2006, 08:48 PM   #22
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Of course it'd be nice if they focused more on whatever males need to do to be fit parents, but I really don't see the big deal here. It's just doctors encouraging young women to take folic acid.

I dunno it seems to me you could find something sexist in everything, but maybe I'm way off.
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Old 05-17-2006, 08:56 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


You're missing the point, as usual. There doesn't need to be an immediate pairing of advice as other advice is given.

However, the fact remains that federal health guidelines telling men to be always on-guard for pregnancy is never going to happen. Never. And that's where accusations of sexism have merit.

Sexism, racism, homophobia, etc. doesn't need overt "intent." After all, religious fanatics don't look for "intent" when they're on their persecution complex. It's just a recognition that no study, no advice, no anything is free of personal bias, regardless of the best of intentions.

Melon
Personal snide comments aside, the beef raised with this report IS the lack of contempraneous male focused medical guidelines.

Such information actually is produced - whether it be warnings regarding unintended pregnancy or the potential impacts of things like steroids on the male reproductive system. But those reports don't make juicy new stories.

Never mind that pregnancy, as a medical condition, is only faced by women.

Intent is essential - for any of the categories listed (including the religious persecution you've focused on). Otherwise, based on the suggestion that all studies are biased (going further on those same grounds, any statement is biased), the only alternative to be "bias free" is complete silence.

In an atmosphere were "all is biased" and intent does not matter, acceptance of studies or statements becomes a matter of who yells loudest.
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Old 05-17-2006, 10:50 PM   #24
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Instead they are identifying women by the function of their uterus alone and there is something very creepy and very unsettling about that to me.
I think that is the most important point here... those recommendations aren't made to benefit women directly, but to benefit a baby who maybe will never be conceived. Besides, it is unfair to obligate women to carry all the responsability of a "future" baby's health, when you need two to make one.
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Old 05-17-2006, 10:50 PM   #25
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What is so astoundingly obnoxious about this is that it completely ignores the problems we have in this country as far as health care and education are concerned. 1. Our lack of good, logical, rational sex ed is embarassing. 2. Our lack of a universal health care system--where those in the lowest tax brackets get good, free, easily accessible care--is criminal in a country as rich as ours. and 3. I am NOT a walking uterus!

So, tell every female to take folic acid...and if she doesn't (for a zillion different reasons) and then gets pregnant (b/c she got the abstinence-only, nope-not-gonna-tell-ya-how-to-use-a-condom sex ed), and then doesn't see an OB-Gyn until, oh, month 8 because of a zillion other reasons...and then has a baby with defects...can the powers that be then blame this on HER?

The other problem is that the health of any possible future fetus I may or may not carry becomes more important than ME and my health NOW! Why can't we be encouraged to be healthy for ourselves instead of as future mothers? Seriously, it makes us look like brood mares in lock-step with the other young mothers of the fatherland! (I'm having paranoid Nazi imaginings).

Think the Handmaid's Tale is fiction? Think again.

I have to stop this rant...but I'm still pissed off
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Old 05-17-2006, 11:27 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Intent is essential - for any of the categories listed (including the religious persecution you've focused on). Otherwise, based on the suggestion that all studies are biased (going further on those same grounds, any statement is biased), the only alternative to be "bias free" is complete silence.
No. It's not "all or nothing." The problem is that there's too many people who think that if they make the movements, they're doing the right thing all the time.

Intent is not essential, if the sexism is so culturally ingrained as to be subconscious. This is where we're running into trouble in the Muslim world, for instance; but if Americans think that they're immune from human nature, they're sorely mistaken.

The solution is education in both instances, but considering how resistant this nation is to diversity education (after all, our definition of "diversity" is to have different skin colors all acting "American"--a.k.a., "White"), perhaps I'm not surprised as to why the Bush Administration has a habit of offending someone every time it opens its mouth.

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Old 05-18-2006, 12:02 AM   #27
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They said that were going to start putting folic acid in foods in Britain in order to ensure pregnant women get enough of this vital mineral.


The thing is too much of any vitamin or mineral are bad for you, we don't know how this could effect the public, similar thing with the flouride in our water supply. It's becomming more and more of a nanny state. I wish the "do-gooding" government will stop force feeding us these chemicals, minerals, etc. Aren't we grown ups for goodness sake, not little school children?

It's up to healthadvicers and dieticians to tell a pregnant women what she should eat/avoid, and then, as a responsible adult who will soon have a small human being to look after, to act on that advice. If she doesn't then it's her fault not the rest of society's. I mean, if a women cannot be responsible to ensure she's intaking the required nutrients during her pregnancy, how is she going to reponsible for a new baby?
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Old 05-18-2006, 12:44 AM   #28
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Research shows that "during the first few weeks (before 52 days' gestation) of pregnancy" -- during which a woman may not yet realize she's pregnant -- "exposure to alcohol, tobacco and other drugs; lack of essential vitamins (e.g., folic acid); and workplace hazards can adversely affect fetal development and result in pregnancy complications and poor outcomes for both the mother and the infant," the report states.

The CDC report also discusses disparities in care, noting that approximately 17 million women lack health insurance and are likely to postpone or forgo care. These disparities are more prominent among minority groups and those of lower socioeconomic status, the report states.

The NCHS data also reflect these disparities. Babies born to black mothers, for example, had the highest rate of infant death -- 13.5 per 1,000 live births. Infants born to white women had a death rate of 5.7 per 1,000.


----------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe it is more usefull to do something about the healthcare system and the difference between white and black women ( i guess the big difference between the deathrate has a lot to do with difference between income. )
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Old 05-18-2006, 02:09 AM   #29
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As a woman, my main problem with it is that it kinda makes women look stupid. Like we need a bunch of male doctors in their white lab coats telling us things that many responsible women already know (whether or not they chose to follow through is their business only). Of course you don't smoke, drink and you're sure to take the right vitamins when pregnant.

It's like this ad I saw every 20 minutes all weekend long. It's a bunch of "normal" woman saying "omg I had no idea CANCER from a VIRUS?! I can't believe I didn't know, I have to tell someone...." I'm sure the intent is good and to save lives, but at the same time I feel really put off by that ad because HPV > cervical cancer is something me and everyone I know learned about when we were 11.
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Old 05-18-2006, 04:50 AM   #30
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