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Old 04-18-2005, 01:15 PM   #1
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Wwfymd?

There's something that happened last week that's been bothering me, I thought I'd get the opinions of the fine people here.

I was on the subway on the way home from the baseball game and these drunk college boys-and I will call them boys because they behaved just like boys (not even boys, because that insults and degrades kids)-were there. One in particular was saying these really immature and vile things, I won't and can't repeat them here. Some referred to homosexuality - not in a general way but in an extremely immature and crude personal way. They were also talking in a very crude way about body parts. When I say talking - not talking, they were yelling.

What's really been bothering me more than anything is the fact that I didn't say anything to them for their offensive rudeness. I did say out loud, but not loud enough-shut up you obnoxious a**hole. I'm disgusted w/ myself that I didn't confront the guy (he was standing right near me). But honestly I was afraid, being a female alone (well other than the other people on the train). I had no idea what stop they were getting off at. And dealing w/ a drunk is scary. Nobody else on the train said anything, including the older men who were there-I kept hoping at least one of them would say something like "keep quiet, you're offensive, there are kids on this train" or whatever. One guy who was 20 something told the guy to shut up, but I don't think he heard him, and the guy got off at the next stop.

Shouldn't I have spoken up, in spite of my fear? I think I definitely should have, and I'm ashamed of myself. At what point should you forget about your fears? We shouldn't just excuse it because they're drunk or whatever. And why are people afraid to stand up to people like that, and tell them to shut up and stop being such ignorant disgusting excuses for human beings? Doesn't silence of others implicitly condone this behavior?

I feel like apologizing to all gay people for the behavior of scum like that, I really do. I don't want this thread to become some other discussion of homosexuality, but I do have to wonder-if they had been making inferences about African Americans, Jewish people, or any other group in such an offensive way, would people be silent about that too?

Maybe another issue is why do some males of that age group behave the way they do? Shouldn't they be more mature than that?
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Old 04-18-2005, 01:35 PM   #2
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I am not sure what kind of subway it was? Was there a security guard on board or any other transit official you could have complained to?

Sounds cliche, but they probably joke about homosexuality because they are not secure in their own sexuality.
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Old 04-18-2005, 01:39 PM   #3
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No there weren't any officers that I could see, I would assume they would have done something if they were on board.

I think maybe they make comments like that because they think it's acceptable, whereas anything else they might open their idiotic mouths about wouldn't be. Chances are they might be racist and sexist too though
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Old 04-18-2005, 01:51 PM   #4
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I've gotten into a few fights in my life (not proud of it). But they were all with drunk people in public places in exactly the scenario you describe.

I politely ask them to quite down, or be more considerate of their surroundings, they escalate it, and I in turn have to kick their ass. The fights are usually short, with me demanding an apology whilst having my knee in their back.

Every time, every single time.

So, that's my experience. Their judgement is screwed up, and they can't control themselves.

So, be prepared to fight.
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Old 04-18-2005, 01:54 PM   #5
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Personally, I think you did the right thing. A lone woman confronting a group of drunk guys probably isn't the smartest thing to do. I would have been just as disgusted but alcohol and a group mentality make people act like idiots and confronting them in that situation might have caused them to turn their harrasment on you.
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Old 04-18-2005, 02:03 PM   #6
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I agree with BAW. It wouldn't have been wise for a lone guy to confront them either.

If they were endangering someone I would have seeked help.
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Old 04-18-2005, 02:03 PM   #7
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Sadly, given society's laissez faire attitude toward personal behavior, can you really expect anyone to challenge his or her behavior (unless, like MadelynIris, you can beat the crap out of them)?

Take a look at some other FYM threads. Bono uses the "F-word" and it's shrugged off as "just another word". Often questioning standards of behavior is considered "judgmental".

I can't change them, but I will make sure my own children don't engage in such behavior.
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Old 04-18-2005, 02:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Bono uses the "F-word" and it's shrugged off as "just another word".
The context in which the word was used had something to do with some people's views on that, too, though.

Anywho, I think it absolutely sucks that those guys were saying that stuff, too. When in public places, you'll hear things from time to time that you won't like. I do agree with BAW's statement that confronting them could've been dangerous

You did say they were drunk, though-sometimes people say things while drunk that they normally wouldn't say otherwise, so there is that to consider, too.

Angela
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Old 04-18-2005, 02:19 PM   #9
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You did the right thing by not confronting them.
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Old 04-18-2005, 02:21 PM   #10
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Have any of you ever seen the movie "THe Incident", from the late 60s, with Martin Sheen and Beau Bridges? It's very good, and deals with 2 punks that terrorize people aboard a train.
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Old 04-18-2005, 02:33 PM   #11
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As MadelynIris said, the kind of behaviour described is invariably designed to provoke a reaction, and therefore conflict or a scrap whether verbal or otherwise, so you did the right thing in keeping schtum.

One incident I can recall that has some parallels. I was on a train with friends in England a few years back. We had been to the horse races and the train was packed with racegoers. It so happened that our carriage had 2 or 3 black people in it - not racegoers, just ordinary commuters. Anyway this guy in the carriage starts directing racial abuse at the black people, along the lines of "So, why don't you go home where you belong", etc. He wasn't a kid, probably in his thirties actually.

The same guy had been handing out BNP (a racist political party in England) leaflets at the train station earlier. Well, anyway no-one said a word or responded and eventually he just shut up. Then another white guy who had over-heard the insults goes over and sits down beside him and the two of them engage in discussion on how immigration was getting out of hand, etc. Marvellous.
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Old 04-18-2005, 02:40 PM   #12
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I did the right thing for myself, but the wrong thing in general I think

I know what you mean nbc, but Bono using the f word hardly compares to what I heard
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Old 04-18-2005, 02:42 PM   #13
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I wonder what these "boys" watch on television?
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Old 04-18-2005, 02:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris
I've gotten into a few fights in my life (not proud of it). But they were all with drunk people in public places in exactly the scenario you describe.

I politely ask them to quite down, or be more considerate of their surroundings, they escalate it, and I in turn have to kick their ass. The fights are usually short, with me demanding an apology whilst having my knee in their back.

Every time, every single time.

So, that's my experience. Their judgement is screwed up, and they can't control themselves.

So, be prepared to fight.

why i appreciate the sentiments behind this, i think it's exactly the wrong thing to do, and probably what these drunken idiots were hoping for -- and they were in a group, so i'm doubtful that any single person could have taken them all on. further, there's a kind of macho bravado that is much more part of the problem than the solution.

on a subway car, late at night, dealing with drunken young men -- sadly, the best thing to do, in the absence of a police officer, is to do nothing if all you were hearing was verbal slurs. you don't know if they're armed, or what they're capable of. quite simply, Mrs. S, your safety comes first, and getting into a "shut up!" "no, you shut up!" screaming match is going to make the ride more unpleasant.
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Old 04-18-2005, 02:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I wonder what these "boys" watch on television?


well ... okay, but that is how people spoke back then. once in a while, i do think HBO acts like a 9 year old who's just learned that he can swear out of earshot of his parents and won't get in trouble. at the same time, the language on Deadwood or The Sopranos is very accurate, and authentic, and it is R-rated television that people make the choice to pay for, and these shows are of immeasurably higher quality than the stuff on basic cable and the networks. with art comes some discomfort and offense.

these kids probably wouldn't have the attention span to sit through any of those shows, anyway.
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