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Old 04-18-2005, 02:46 PM   #16
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I would just have to think that the things this guy was saying come from a place far deeper than f words on TV shows. Of course I didn't get into a discussion w/ him about it..

Oddly enough he did apologize to me for having his butt in my face because the train was so packed and called me a lady. How gentlemanly of him
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Old 04-18-2005, 03:09 PM   #17
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You did the right thing by not confronting them.
I agree. That's exactly what I would have done. You can't manage a bunch of drunk idiots, it's better not to try.
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Old 04-18-2005, 03:17 PM   #18
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I admittedly fear drunks, and would not take the risk of confronting them under any circumstances unless someone's life was at stake. I've tried reasoning with sober heartless dimwits before, and I don't believe I've been very successful at it.
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Old 04-18-2005, 04:09 PM   #19
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You weigh the risk against the benefit. The chances are almost nil that you were going to change their minds. Sometimes the best thing to do is discreetly catch another rider's glance and roll your eyes, because I am sure your fellow travelers (no communist jokes here) are thinking your homophobes are assholes too. There are other ways you can let the other riders know you disapprove without endangering yourself. You should only feel guilt if you could have changed an outcome.
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Old 04-18-2005, 04:27 PM   #20
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I've been in the subway in NYC and have heard similar things. I say keep your mouth shut. Any normal person knows it's wrong and if you know it's wrong and live your life in a way that others can use as a model to live their lives, i.e. teaching kids that words like that are wrong, then you're fine.

Maybe I've been living in NYC for too long, but despite what some may think, New Yorkers are very passive in situations like that. You never know what someone is caring or how far it could escalate.
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Old 04-18-2005, 05:13 PM   #21
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Irvine,

I defended every blow with a block, I did not strike back - then simply wrestled them to the ground.

Well, one guy I wrestled to the ground by his neck. I guess that was a little overboard. But, in all cases, I like to use the terms: control and containment.

I'm not an agressive person.
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Old 04-18-2005, 10:08 PM   #22
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Oohh, tough guy!

Put up your dukes! Put 'em up!



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Old 04-18-2005, 10:23 PM   #23
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Mrs Sprinsgteen, you and every other person who said nothing did the right thing, not only because of the danger you could have found yourself in, but because a loud voice with a quiet audience reverberates. Their actions and words did what you could never have done, and that is paint them for exactly what they are - offensive revolting oafs.

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Old 04-18-2005, 11:01 PM   #24
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I agree. Sometimes the very best response is absolutely nothing and let the fools show themselves to be the dimwits they really are. Do you really think you would get through to drunks anyway? The time to speak out is at genteel gatherings when the neatly dressed, respectable people are spouting the same vitriol.
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Old 04-18-2005, 11:19 PM   #25
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I agree. Sometimes the very best response is absolutely nothing and let the fools show themselves to be the dimwits they really are.
. Precisely.

Angela
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Old 04-18-2005, 11:21 PM   #26
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I know how you feel, Mrs. Springsteen. It's so frustrating because people go around behaving like that because no one stops them--but it's downright dangerous and ineffective to try.

I had a (somewhat) similar experience on a Denver train. It was *packed*, Japan style, but these two girls decided to push on. They were pretty suspect anyway, and they just kept trying to shove their way to the spot *they* wanted. As they are shoving past me, I said "Where do you think you're going to go, exactly?"

The girl turned to me and said "Who are you talking to?"
"YOU. I'm talking to you. Don't you see how crowded the train is, exactly where do you think you're going??" She then launched into verbal abuse and threats--how it wasn't my train and who did I think I was, f-ing b-tch, what would happen if I didn't let her by. I can't remember what I replied, but she eventually got her way. And then proceeded to yell, all the way, about what she was going to do "to that white b*itch" once we got off the train.

Not one person said anything, they just glared at *me* for causing the scene and clutched their bags and briefcases tighter. It made me even angrier than the initial incident. Not one person told her to back off, or chill out, or anything. One girl rolled her eyes in sympathy with me. I don't even think if she had attacked me, anyone would have come to my defense. Of course, the well fed security guards were absent.

It's a pretty sad world we live in, that's all I can say.
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Old 04-19-2005, 06:36 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris
Irvine,

I defended every blow with a block, I did not strike back - then simply wrestled them to the ground.

Well, one guy I wrestled to the ground by his neck. I guess that was a little overboard. But, in all cases, I like to use the terms: control and containment.

I'm not an agressive person.


i still think it's bad advice, for two reasons: 1) the people you are trying to control and contain could be armed, could have a knife, a broken beer bottle, and not everyone (not even you) is capable of controling and containing everyone, and 2) fighting and aggression are never good ways to solve a problem.

you might not be aggressive, but you do seem proud of putting your knee in some idiot's back.

they may well have deserved it, but i still can't see how that was the best response to the sitaution.
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Old 04-19-2005, 06:57 AM   #28
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I agree AvsGirl, it is a pretty sad world

And I've never been able to fight a guy, though I have certainly fantasized about doing so on more than one occasion (in the angry fantasy sense, not in any other sense)

I'm a non-violent person, but ignorant loud creeps spewing homophobic insults really tick me off. I did have to wonder if this was the same type of guy who would beat up a gay man just because he's gay
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Old 04-19-2005, 07:28 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
I'm a non-violent person, but ignorant loud creeps spewing homophobic insults really tick me off. I did have to wonder if this was the same type of guy who would beat up a gay man just because he's gay

possibly, but don't worry -- most gay men spend lots of time at the gym and could probably kick this dude's ass

not that i'm recommending that.
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Old 04-19-2005, 07:46 AM   #30
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you might not be aggressive, but you do seem proud of putting your knee in some idiot's back.

they may well have deserved it, but i still can't see how that was the best response to the sitaution.
Right - but now I question you on this:

Do you believe on principle, that any kind of physical confrontation is always wrong?

Is there any situation where it is called for?
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