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Old 09-24-2002, 12:56 PM   #31
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Pinkfloyd, I'm really bothered by your posts. To say the mother is sorry, will never do it again, just had a bad day AND that the child is better off with the mother is inconceivable.

Like the others said, even the worst day of your life doesn't warrant beating the living tar out of an innocent child.

The child is NOT better off with this excessivly dysfunctional family. Getting abused relentlessly is not a way to live. She deserves a better chance with a better family.

Statistics show that once a person is physically abusive, THEY DO NOT STOP. Their anger has control off their life, and unless they undergo some intense counselling and healing, they will continue to succumb to the anger. Ask any help centres for victims of abuse, and they will tell you physical abuse is a reoccuring offense, no matter how sorry the offender is.

This story truly makes me sick and makes me want to cry, because this stuff goes on all the time. What kind of world are we living in?
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Old 09-24-2002, 03:32 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Not George Lucas
Anyone notice that she bears a striking resemblance to Leonardo DiCaprio?
i do now!
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Old 09-24-2002, 06:19 PM   #33
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Originally posted by Not George Lucas
Anyone notice that she bears a striking resemblance to Leonardo DiCaprio?

Kinda.

She looks rather smug, doesn't she?

Makes me even more ticked off at her.

Angela
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Old 09-24-2002, 09:01 PM   #34
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Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
She looks rather smug, doesn't she?
yeah, i noticed that too. i also noticed in the video she had blonde hair, and now it's suddenly brown. i wonder if some lawyer (or herself) told her to dye it darker to look more mature or something.
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Old 09-24-2002, 09:14 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by KhanadaRhodes

yeah, i noticed that too. i also noticed in the video she had blonde hair, and now it's suddenly brown. i wonder if some lawyer (or herself) told her to dye it darker to look more mature or something.
She dyed it while she was hiding out in 2 different states before she went back to Indiana and turned herself in. I thought in one interview I saw that she looked like she was under the influence of something...I could be wrong but she looked a little sedated to me.

I also heard today that she plans on pleading guilty and asking the court for mercy.
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Old 09-24-2002, 09:48 PM   #36
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This is about the funniest thread i've ever read. You should go back and read your posts. Every post has more and more speculation in them. Ya i heard she does crack and hey looked now she has streaks, i bet she got them to look younger so people would think she's young and dumb.

People as bad as this is, and it is bad this is being blown way out of proportion. I was hit when i was a kid. I got the belt many a time a few knockings never hurt for more then a few hours. I'm not lessing what this woman did but i know where pink is coming from. I seen the interview with her and i truly think she is sorry for what happened. I think she lost it. Many a ppl have lost it but were never caught on tape.

If this incident happened and three people seen it and went to CNN with their stories it would never have got airtime. But the power of the tape. I fell sorry for the child, one for being hit like she was and two for being exploited by the media. Its like 9/11, where they kept showing the planes crashing who the fuck wants to see that all day everyday, same here who wants to see a kid get smacked around and beat up?? Once alright but having a SPECIAL around it and devoting hours of the day to it is absurd.

Sure you could send this kid to a foster family then another and another till she's 18 where she thrown out to fend for herself. Go ask a foster child what they think is the best option. There's more abuse in some foster families then this girl will recieve.
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Old 09-24-2002, 11:11 PM   #37
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Originally posted by bonoman

People as bad as this is, and it is bad this is being blown way out of proportion. I was hit when i was a kid. I got the belt many a time a few knockings never hurt for more then a few hours. I'm not lessing what this woman did but i know where pink is coming from. I seen the interview with her and i truly think she is sorry for what happened. I think she lost it. Many a ppl have lost it but were never caught on tape.
I'll probably end up killing this thread with what I'm going to say here but I feel I should say it anyways so you would know I'm not making any speculations. I was hit as a kid too. There was even a time when my mother lost control and did the same thing to a family member. She ended up giving her a black eye. But come on...not like what that woman on TV did. My mother realized what she did. She sent her to stay with a family friend for a while. She came back when my mom felt she had better control of her temper. I still haven't gotten over that. Maybe I should ask myself if the same thing should have happened in my family's case. Should they have removed her from my family? my mom did the removing herself, and I admire her for that. So I stand by what I say. That child needs to go to a good foster home.
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Old 09-24-2002, 11:24 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by bonoman

People as bad as this is, and it is bad this is being blown way out of proportion. I was hit when i was a kid. I got the belt many a time a few knockings never hurt for more then a few hours. I'm not lessing what this woman did but i know where pink is coming from. I seen the interview with her and i truly think she is sorry for what happened. I think she lost it. Many a ppl have lost it but were never caught on tape.

If this incident happened and three people seen it and went to CNN with their stories it would never have got airtime. But the power of the tape. I fell sorry for the child, one for being hit like she was and two for being exploited by the media. Its like 9/11, where they kept showing the planes crashing who the fuck wants to see that all day everyday, same here who wants to see a kid get smacked around and beat up?? Once alright but having a SPECIAL around it and devoting hours of the day to it is absurd.

Punishment by spanking is one thing (IMO, anyways) but what that woman did was potentially life-threatening...maybe you should see that video one more time to see how bad it really was. Granted, without the tape this incident may have passed without notice, but then what? Next time this mother gets "upset", or "loses it", she could seriously hurt her child. We should be glad something has been done about it, for at least it draws attention to this one child, and may protect her from something that dangerous in the future. ANYTIME a parent is as brutal as that, it is wrong. To justify it, or try to lessen the wrong by making excuses for the mother is absurd...it could lead to something worse next time.
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Old 09-24-2002, 11:55 PM   #39
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Excuse me, i never and would never make an excuse for something so brutal as what she did. She said it herself, there is no excuse. We can only judge her now from what she does in response.
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Old 09-25-2002, 01:34 AM   #40
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Bonoman, I would like to respectively disagree with a few points you brought up. You mentioned the amount of speculation the replies in this thread contained, but you had your own views that cannot be backed with fact - which to me is the same thing. You I guess, speculated too. About it being blown out of proportion, about the number of abuse cases related to foster care, and also whether the mother really is sorry for what she did on that tape. Those are things we really dont know the answer to. All we can do is speculate.

I think everyone has different views on child raring and what is acceptable and what is not as far as punishment for bad behaviour goes. That is fine. But there is a general societal consensus that there is a distinct and serious difference between smacking your child, even hitting them, and then actual physical assault. Any violence technically is assault. Whenever our parents smacked us, that technically, or not even technically, is assault. That aside, to beat your child in a manner such as that, DOES cross a boundary of acceptable parenting. This can be argued of course of where our right to judge lies. I dont believe it is a situation where we should remain hushed, and keep our thoughts to ourselves. A few reasons, one is children are a part of the larger society and in most instances are without their own voice. A child does not always know how to speak out on their behalf. A child may not know they even can. A child may not know they could have that right. It is also a law of members of our society to not inflict large does of physical harm to a child. Whether we agree or not that it is not our place to be so up in arms over occurances like this remains moot in light of the law.
Apologies if this sounds totally directed at you. I read all your replies and do know you do not believe this woman is without blame. I know you are probably just as horrified as any one else.

In regards to how the whole media circus unfolded surrounding this, do you disagree that an example may have been made? That we all need a reminder every now and then that this occurs? I will speculate again and say you might be fairly pissed at the scapegoat this woman became. I can agree with that. I dont like media exploitation of anything, but the media does educate and does spread awareness. If this woman had to be made an example of, so be it. At the end of the day, enough people were made aware of this so that that little girl may luckily never suffer that kind of assault again. We can also hope that it may help to cease other unseen cases that are occuring behind closed doors every single day. We are a long way off seeing an end to child abuse. But a reminder to the larger public every now and then keeps us in check, maybe empowers others to speak out.
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Old 09-25-2002, 02:15 AM   #41
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First off i agree with most of what you say. I think it is blown out of proportion. I also think that if we need a tape like this to remind yourselves about child abuse then thats saying something about yourself.


Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
About it being blown out of proportion, about the number of abuse cases related to foster care, and also whether the mother really is sorry for what she did on that tape. Those are things we really dont know the answer to
What i think and what speculation is are two totally different things. I THINK its blown out of proportion. i think she is sorry by watching her in an interview. And in some cases their is alot worse abuse in foster care. I could go and look for foster abuse and bring a whole article but i have no time. I just THINK the child should remain with her Father or family. I never said she should go back with her mother. Just not into foster care.
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Old 09-25-2002, 02:43 AM   #42
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I agree completely that the fact a tape like that needs to remind us/me of this happening does say a lot. I hate to admit it, but I do try and remove myself from all of it. After I quit my old career, I thought I didnt want to know anymore. I wanted Ostrich Syndrome. I wonder how much of that does exist in the community though. We all care, but how active are we in speaking out against it? Guess we cannot know that.
I think the only real issue we disagree on is what the difference between speculation and what we think of something is.
But semantics can ruin good debate.

Sorry again, if my previous reply came across in the wrong way.
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Old 09-25-2002, 09:32 PM   #43
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My initial reaction to the tape was anger, but after paying closer attention to the replays I don't see much harm being done to the little girl. At least not enough harm to warrant a criminal verdict.

Here's my case, so hear me out:

1) Child, no matter WHO they are, need occasional physical disipline. This doesn't legitimize the beating of a child, it just means that an occassional slap on the face, a spanky of the butt, or a slapping of the wrist, is sometimes necessary. If a child doesn't learn there are severe consequences for their actions, how will they treat authority when they enter the real world.

2) a)When I watch the video I see an agrivated mother who lost her temper. For all we know this doesn't happen on a weekly or even daily occurence. b) She "slaps", not "punches" or "hits" her girl on the "leg", not "head" with an etimidating presence. I know this because there were zero bruises or marks on the girl couple of days after the so-called abuse. c) After the girl jumps to the opposite side of the car (which any child would do if they were caught breaking the rules of the parent), the mother repeatedly points her figure at the little girl as if to scold her.
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Old 09-25-2002, 10:37 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Danospano
1) Child, no matter WHO they are, need occasional physical disipline. This doesn't legitimize the beating of a child, it just means that an occassional slap on the face, a spanky of the butt, or a slapping of the wrist, is sometimes necessary. If a child doesn't learn there are severe consequences for their actions, how will they treat authority when they enter the real world.
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Old 09-25-2002, 10:41 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Danospano
My initial reaction to the tape was anger, but after paying closer attention to the replays I don't see much harm being done to the little girl. At least not enough harm to warrant a criminal verdict.

Here's my case, so hear me out:

1) Child, no matter WHO they are, need occasional physical disipline. This doesn't legitimize the beating of a child, it just means that an occassional slap on the face, a spanky of the butt, or a slapping of the wrist, is sometimes necessary. If a child doesn't learn there are severe consequences for their actions, how will they treat authority when they enter the real world.

2) a)When I watch the video I see an agrivated mother who lost her temper. For all we know this doesn't happen on a weekly or even daily occurence. b) She "slaps", not "punches" or "hits" her girl on the "leg", not "head" with an etimidating presence. I know this because there were zero bruises or marks on the girl couple of days after the so-called abuse. c) After the girl jumps to the opposite side of the car (which any child would do if they were caught breaking the rules of the parent), the mother repeatedly points her figure at the little girl as if to scold her.
I'm sorry but a slap on the face doesn't cut it with me. My mom slapped my face for discipline and it was pure humiliation. All it did was make me an angry, hostile kid.

There were no bruises or marks on the girl because the incident happened September 13th and mother didn't turn herself in until last week. Slap marks would be long gone.

I agree that every child needs discipline, even an occasional spanking but anything more than that only teaches a child fear, not respect. I certainly had no respect for my own mother when she lost control on me...which occured most of the time not because I had done anything wrong but because of frustrations she had related to her drug problem. As a matter of fact, she would become pretty enraged when she tried to return stolen merchandise to a store and was denied cash...so this story is pretty familiar to me.

Read the following story and you'll see that the mother herself admits to losing control and doing a little more than slapping the little girl's legs.

Whether its an ongoing problem or not, the mother needs some help to figure out why she lost it this time and how to prevent it from happening again.


Quote:
Mother Arraigned in Video Beating
Mon Sep 23, 8:31 PM ET
By TOM COYNE, Associated Press Writer

SOUTH BEND, Ind. (AP) - The woman caught on video beating her 4-year-old daughter in a department store parking lot will probably plead guilty and seek mercy from the court, her lawyer said Monday.

Madelyne Gorman Toogood, 25, was arraigned on a felony charge of battery to a child, and a magistrate entered an innocent plea on her behalf. Her attorney, Steven Rosen, called the plea a formality and later said there was no point in trying to challenge the surveillance videotape in court.

"We will probably enter a guilty plea and throw ourselves on the mercy of the court," he said after the arraignment.

He added: "If a jury has to sit in judgment of this lady, the jury is going to come back with a guilty verdict ... I'm confronted with a videotape that shows Attila the Hun, no question about it."

Earlier Monday, a Probate Court judge ordered that Toogood's daughter, Martha, remain in foster care in the meantime, and he gave child-protection officials two weeks to recommend who should care for the girl.

A doctor examined the girl and found no medical problems and no long-term signs of abuse, authorities said.

Toogood will get a 90-minute supervised visit with her daughter on Tuesday at a safe house. She will only get to see her daughter once or twice a week, Rosen said.

If convicted, Toogood faces up to three years in prison, though her attorney said he would try to strike a deal with prosecutors. She faces a hearing on Oct. 7.

Prosecutor Christopher Toth said the evidence against Toogood was compelling.

"Obviously jail is something you have to seriously consider in a case like this," he said.

Toogood, a mother of three, had no comment as she left court. She remained free on $5,000 bail.

"People might think I'm a monster, but I've been a mother for six years, and no harm has come to my children before this, never," Toogood told CNN earlier Monday. "I'm sorry. That's all I can say."

Toogood told reporters Sunday she hit her daughter in the head and back and pulled her hair but did not punch her. On the video of the Sept. 13 incident, which has been televised nationally, Toogood appears to make punching motions toward her daughter inside a sport utility vehicle.

Rosen said he believed the hitting took place because Martha misbehaved in the store, taking toys out of packages and wandering away, prompting store employees to page Toogood twice.

Toogood said she hopes to be reunited with her daughter and that she, her daughter, and her husband, John, plan to start parenting classes.

She said her two young sons are staying with family.

Toogood said she and her husband have been living in Mishawaka for about six months. She said they are Irish Travelers a nomadic group that police say has been linked to fraudulent home repair.

By some estimates, 7,000 Travelers live in the United States most in Texas and South Carolina about 40,000 live in Ireland and England. The Travelers began migrating to the United States more than 100 years ago.

Rosen said he has told his client not to answer questions about being an Irish Traveler. He said she is proud of her culture.

"She was born in a culture and in their culture the life is to travel from community because the father, the mother had to earn a living," he said.

Charles Smith, director of the St. Joseph County Office of Family and Children, said the fact the family is part of the Irish Travelers will play a role in whether other family members get temporary custody of the girl and whether the Toogoods regain custody.
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