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Old 03-29-2002, 08:20 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by mug222:
No. When you characterize an entire "band of people" as those who "produce nothing" and "are just there...", I think I am allowed to take offense, as everyone should. It's just pure racist bilge and it bothers me: Yes, Palestine has unfortunate geographical shortcomings that cause the region to be less developed than our own, but 1) That is not a result of lesser peoples, as you seem to imply, and 2) It is simply a gross generalization to imply that the entire race of Palestinians "produce nothing." I have worked with enough brilliant Palestinian scientists and economists (who, incidentally, also want peace at any cost) to know that much. These Palestinians have produced more than you ever will.

Point Out to Me what exactly this quote unquote Nation of Palestine produces.. Give me some evidence towards inclining me to digress from my statement?... Inflammatory as it may be, It is the truth.. Right? If I am given something to the contrary I will admit my error, but if the statement is true how can you knock it? Because it sets off some sort of insensitivity nodule in your thalamus... I'll assume you are in favor of these Corporations paying Reparations for Slavery?! Hahaha... For another Thread though.

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[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 03-29-2002).]
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Old 03-29-2002, 09:07 PM   #32
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none of them will be invited to my Easter Egg Hunt
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Old 03-29-2002, 10:01 PM   #33
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Have you all seen the latest video tape released to the news networks?.. It shows the young girl who would eventually blow herself up in front of a Supermarket going through the ritual pre-Self-Explosion Rites before she were to head out to kill herself and take as many Israelis with her as possible.

What is disturbing is that some of the network shows are trumping this girl as some sort of Hero?! Geezus.. But just an observation.

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Old 03-29-2002, 10:04 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lemonite:
Point Out to Me what exactly this quote unquote Nation of Palestine produces.. Give me some evidence towards inclining me to digress from my statement?... Inflammatory as it may be, It is the truth.. Right?

You said:


Just an addendum in the middle of this post.. the Palestinians are a band of people who produce nothing, they have no commercial value, no 'industrial' practices.. They produce nothing, They are just there.. Ok.. Back to the post.


What is beyond offensive is the statement that they have no commercial value. The assertion that a human being has no commercial value because his "country" has no economically valuable exports is incredibly disturbing to me. Furthermore, even if one would take at face value each of those things you said, none of them have anything at all to do with a peace process. Liberty and the pursuit of happiness don't hinge on a gross national product. That you may in some way think they do is mind boggling, and frankly, a sad social statement.

I'm really disturbed, as a Catholic and Christian, on Good Friday, to even read your comments. I'm generally pleasant on these forums in the sense I've never had issues with anybody. Not a fight, not a flame, nothing. But you've fundamentally offended me, and others. That you're unable to see why, is troubling.


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Old 03-29-2002, 10:08 PM   #35
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Oh, and hi Julie! You in Ottawa or across the pond right now?
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Old 03-29-2002, 10:14 PM   #36
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yeah, I just saw that Lemonite... I'm also hearing this conspiracy theory being put forth by Arabs that suggest Israel is responsible or at least knew prior to the attacks on September 11; saying that some 4 or 5,000 Jews that normally work in the WTC were not there that day... did I miss something, is this something that was suggested before now? do Arabs really believe this shit?
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Old 03-29-2002, 11:06 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram:

You said:


Just an addendum in the middle of this post.. the Palestinians are a band of people who produce nothing, they have no commercial value, no 'industrial' practices.. They produce nothing, They are just there.. Ok.. Back to the post.


What is beyond offensive is the statement that they have no commercial value. The assertion that a human being has no commercial value because his "country" has no economically valuable exports is incredibly disturbing to me. Furthermore, even if one would take at face value each of those things you said, none of them have anything at all to do with a peace process. Liberty and the pursuit of happiness don't hinge on a gross national product. That you may in some way think they do is mind boggling, and frankly, a sad social statement.

I'm really disturbed, as a Catholic and Christian, on Good Friday, to even read your comments. I'm generally pleasant on these forums in the sense I've never had issues with anybody. Not a fight, not a flame, nothing. But you've fundamentally offended me, and others. That you're unable to see why, is troubling.

First of all.. I wasn't saying the statement had anything to do with the battling/peace processes.. I was just stating a bit of information for people to gnaw on.. If you read anything more into that then you are mistaken.

Second of all, I was referring to them collectively.. How do you want me to refer to them?.. As a Country?... that is mistaken because there is no Palestine.. Give me the proper term to categorize them, or label them.. Because apparently many people above in this thread have no clue. There was no intention to pull a prejudice statement or call them something comparative to 'Jap', 'Nigger', or 'Cracker'.

Again, I am waiting (because I'm also interested) for someone to give me an 'industry' or a 'product' that they export.. Some Contribution to the world they gave.. Some 'Commercial' Value as you put it.. that this 'Nation.. or whatever it is'.. mass of people holds as a collective unit.

Don't pull pull Good Friday and being a Catholic into this.. It is just a holier than Thou Statement that is not relevant on an 'Internet' Discussion Board.. I am Catholic.. What are you trying to Prove with this statement?

I did no such thing to equate Palestinians with Dirt.. That is just a redirection, or a gross misinterpretation of my statement..

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[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 03-29-2002).]
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Old 03-29-2002, 11:15 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Wanderer:
I'm also hearing this conspiracy theory being put forth by Arabs that suggest Israel is responsible or at least knew prior to the attacks on September 11; saying that some 4 or 5,000 Jews that normally work in the WTC were not there that day... did I miss something, is this something that was suggested before now? do Arabs really believe this shit?
There was some big poll out a week or so ago that was 'guaging (sp?)' the Mid East's Feelings toward America.. Granted the majority of them have a negative attitude towards America, but the presentation was very disgustingly slanted.. For Example saying 33% of Kuwaitians have a negative Attitude towards USA rather than 66% of Kuwaitians have a Positive Feeling Toward America..

But to get to your point, I'm not sure of the exact Poll percentage, but Yah.. The Majority of Arabs over in the Middle East believe that Israel was behind the WTC attack.. As either a way to 'Get America Pissed off at Arabs', or some other ri-cock-u-lous fabrication.. Hahah.. Try and give our Dear Mohammed Atta a phone call.. Can't catch up to him eh?..

Just an interesting little thing around my hometown.. an Arab moved into town about a year ago.. Opens up a Gas Station... 7-11 infact... Put a Kid in the private school where my Mom teaches... Sep. 7, The Kid is pulled out of school... Sep. 9, The Gas Station closes up without any real word, and the owner leaves town (apparently) without any word of that.. Criminal?.. I don't know, but it sure is Suspicious..

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Old 03-29-2002, 11:23 PM   #39
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the Catholicism statement is significant because according to the catholic faith every human being is created in God's image and is therefore of worth and that no one should be assigned a value based on their "Usefulness," in terms of economic output, intelligence or other factors. It really did sound like you were saying that because they are of no use to you-- you said they have no industry or exports-- that you have no feeling for what happens to them.
I don't know enough about the Palestinians/Israelis to make any significant comments about that situation...but neither party is totally innocent or completely right. It's a civil war.
and lemonite, if you're going to talk exports and such I want to hear details, preferably verifiable data from a solid source. Otherwise, you're just trying to provoke people. "Dumb Fuck" is actually a pretty good description, I think. I'm going to ignore Lemonite from now on, everyone, and I suggest you do, too. Nothing of value in your posts, just trying to cause trouble.
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Old 03-30-2002, 12:03 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bbug:
It really did sound like you were saying that because they are of no use to you-- you said they have no industry or exports-- that you have no feeling for what happens to them.


I don't know enough about the Palestinians/Israelis to make any significant comments about that situation...but neither party is totally innocent or completely right. It's a civil war.
.
I made no such statements.. It was apparently taken the wrong way.

I too am not completely sure about their industry or what not.. It was just an 'as far as I know'.. That is why I asked for some facts.. to refute it.. I'm sure there are people out there who may be curious.. But again, it was an 'addendum', that was just food for thought.. I like however the attempts to try and just ignore other side of the issue simply because it doesn't follow your ideological beliefs.

It seems that everyone has become bogged down with a 'quote' and a quote they apparently didn't even follow..

However, Dismissing the 'other' side of the fence as of having no 'value' then you are cheating yourself out of what I, as well as many others, perhaps not on this webboard, but of course, the Israelis feel is the 'RighT' Side of the issue. I will say a prayer for you.

Anitram.. Have you made sure to go to confession before Easter.. Just a friendly Reminder.

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Old 03-30-2002, 12:04 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bbug:
the Catholicism statement is significant because according to the catholic faith every human being is created in God's image and is therefore of worth and that no one should be assigned a value based on their "Usefulness,"
No it is not.. Significant here, It has no relevance because I was not stating such.. Just get back to the issue.

Anyways I am still awaiting some evidence to refute my claim that as a 'nation' if you want to so call them that.. No.. the 'Gathering' of People.. The Palestinians are more than 'Just There'.. If it is such a big issue to everyone in this thread to use the last 9 or 10 posts on it.. then give it some worthlessness.. Otherwise, I could have stated the same thing in less inflammatory terms and gotten the same thing across without a blink of an eye because outside of a 'God Loves Us All and Creates us All in His Image, with Our Own Self Worth', There is nothing physical, tangible to say I am wrong.. Just a bunch of Left Wing Criticism.. Like I said.. Food for Thought.. Just imagine if I had called them a 'Gang'.. Oh Dear..

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[This message has been edited by Lemonite (edited 03-29-2002).]
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Old 03-30-2002, 12:22 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by *Ally*:
i'm not really clear on this entire situation, ladyw/spinninghead, but i think that some people (ie, the israelis) are accusing arafat of knowing a lot more about the terrorist attacks than he claims.... apparently, they say that he might be in on the whole thing.
it's a horrible situation over there. there's no solution in sight.... *sigh*

There's also the fact that Arafat keeps sending 2 completely different messages: one directed at the Palestinian population and one intented for the rest of the world. When he talks in English, he's saying how he is supporting peace and only wants "freedom for his people," the creation of a Palestinian state.
However, the message he sends to Palestininans is one of hatred towards Isrealis, encouraging them to keep fighting the occupation in any way they can, including the use of suicide bombers. I saw him on tv in his speech he gave on Palestinian tv saying that "Isrealis sell the organs of Palestinian children" and "are bombarding Palestinian with nuclear waste." If this is not meant to promote war and hatred, I don't know what is. To think that this man, who is behind the murder of the Israeli athletes in Munich, received the Nobel Peace Prize is troubling. Sharon is no angel but if he belongs in a cell with Milosevic, so does Arafat.
I think he's a corrupt and delusional old man who has been playing this double game so long he's not in control of it anymore. There might have been a time where he could have stopped the violence but maybe he wasn't willing to take the risk of being at odds with the extremists groups. The Camp David accord came really close to solving the conflict, maybe the Saudi plan will work out somehow, who knows...
I think that right now the problem is with the extremist groups. Those are organization whose sole purpose is the destruction of the state of Israel. I was reading an interview in which a high ranking member of the Hamas (and a doctor, no less), was saying that the Holocaust never happened, that it is just an excuse for Jews to come and murder Palestinan women and children. They believe that the only solution is the complete removal of all Jews and infidels from Arab land. They use poor, hopeless young men and women to perform the suicide-bombings that will lead them, they believe, to the destruction of Israel. By associating himself with these people, Arafat lost all his credibility as a leader and is actually in big part responsible for the suffering of the Palestinians...

Just my 0.02 cents

[This message has been edited by lady lemonade (edited 03-29-2002).]

[This message has been edited by lady lemonade (edited 03-29-2002).]
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Old 03-30-2002, 12:32 AM   #43
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Look, if you've read ANYTHING by Pope John Paul II or know ANYTHING about the Church's social justice teaching, you know what I mean. It's not a left-wing thing. Have you ever taken a Catholic Studies class? Listened to a homily? Read anything about the social justice teaching of the Church? Picked up a copy of the Catechism? Consider doing it, before you make a complete fool of yourself.
Secondly, I KNOW the terrorist attacks in Israel are horrible. But the force they are using seems too much to combat this. If anything, they are fueling the fire for people who want to recruit kids into suicide-bombing, etc. It's a horrible situation and it's gone on too long, and I don't see it ending anytime soon.
Your comment about the kid and the 7-11 guy moving...grow up. Do they have to file a report with the Lemonite Family before they decide to relocate somewhere else? No. I had to move suddenly when an airforce base near my house closed as a kid. My godmother's kids moved home to be near her and care for her, after her husband died suddenly. So, yeah, their kids transferred schools in a hurry. They had a messy work and housing situation. It's not ideal, but it happens all the time, every day, to lots of nice people. Even (gasp) to conservatives like yourself! If you carry around a prejudice about every Arab-looking person you see, you are INCREDIBLY narrow-minded. I have friends from Saudi Arabia, UAE, etc. These people are not here to threaten you or your way of life, they are here to get an education, succeed in business, and generally that whole "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" thing that ALL americans value.
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Old 03-30-2002, 02:14 AM   #44
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I just saw a U2 tribute band tonight - very cool indeed!

First thing I did when I came home - turned on the telly to see if Mr Arafat is still alive....breathed a sigh of relief...can go to bed now..........G'nite y'all!

p.s.: Hi Anitram - in Ottawa actually!
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Old 03-30-2002, 03:00 AM   #45
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******UPDATE******

There's room to room fighting withing Arafat's compound. Meaning the Israeli soldiers are about to capture/kill him. Interesting indeed.

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