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Old 03-17-2008, 12:56 AM   #61
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Originally posted by MaxFisher


Don Imus said plenty of positive things about various African Americans in his many years on the radio but he was fired for one offensive comment.

it works both ways.
He also said many negative things about African Americans and women, let's not forget that...
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Old 03-17-2008, 12:58 AM   #62
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Originally posted by INDY500
That's the 2nd time you've used that reference. I suppose as a stereotype, there's just enough truth in it to make it humorous. But I'm guessing, as a liberal in good standing, you'd never, ever, refer to blacks waiting in line for Popeye's fried chicken. Would that be because, as a white you're allowed to lampoon whites or because a double standard exists?



one has much more freedom lampooning one's own "people," it's true. and when i'm talking about "Cheesecake Factory" white people, i have something very specific in mind. i could stop and explain it, but it's more of a visual image i have than anything else.

and, clearly, as we've seen from the white reaction to Wright, there's no double standard here. the whites were quite indignant at the selections of a few of Wright's speeches. Sean Hannity thinks that Obama should step down as a Senator, so offended was he at a black person talking in such a way about whites.

i live in a very diverse area. on my block we have everything from poor blacks who haven't quite been gentrified out yet, to semi-homeless crackheads who i get along very well with, to hispanic families, to gay couples, to lesbians with kids, to former punk rockers with kids, to communists, to a speechwriter for the White House. i feel perfectly fine about cracking jokes to my neighbors about, say, black people jaywalking to hispanics double-parking on sundays to my gay landlord who just bought a convertible BWM because of his supposed mid-life crisis at 44 to the continuous transatlantic jokes with the british woman who comes over to work on her art project with my landlord. when everyone is "in" on it, when everyone gets the joke, when everyone is aware of the stereotypes and yet can name a half-dozen black people who don't jaywalk, a half-dozen hispanics who don't double park, gay men without considerable disposable income, and punk rock parents who don't name their kids after Patti Smith songs, *then* you know you're in company where certain jokes, cultural references, and behaviors can be alluded to, and no harm done, no foul committed.

take a look at South Park. did you see the episode from last spring where they made fun of "300," persians, mexicans, and lesbians? what struck me about that was the wide-rage of stereotyped lesbian "types" that were depicted over the course of the show, and yet these stereotypes were well-informed, well-constructed, and only gently mocking, and done by people who have an obvious knowledge and affection for what might be called lesbian culture.

that's how i mean "cheesecake factory whites."




[q]Why not?
What happened to your insistence on the separation of church and state?
About questioning the tax-exempt status of churches too overtly tied to one candidate or political party?
So is it now OK to openly endorse or deride political candidates from the pulpit, if you happen to agree?[/q]

i don't understand what you're getting at here. i said in the other thread that i have no idea why a campaign needs a "spiritual adviser." it strikes me as silly. but Obama has one. Christianity is important to Obama in a way that it isn't to me. and you know what? i still support him.

i see nothing in Obama's relationship with this pastor, nor his stances, that violates anything i've written about in regards to the enumerated examples you've written about.

the only point, come to think of it, is that, yes, it does seem that Wright is telling his congregation how to vote. and that strikes me as inappropriate. i'm sure he's careful -- just as the Baptists who preach in rural Tennessee are careful -- not to overtly cross any specific lines. but it strikes me as inappropriate, just as the Democratic "Faith Forum" from late last year struck me as inappropriate.

but so be it. this obviously isn't something that the majority of americans agree with me on. so it strikes me, INDY, that the inconsistency is yours. you'd be fine with a pastor telling people to vote based upon a politician's stance on the legality of abortion, but when he makes distinctions between two democratic candidates, *then* it's inappropriate?



Quote:
Rev Wright disgusts me, not as a white, but as an American. No differently than does the inane and ignorant comments of Cindy Sheehan, Michael Moore, Code Pink, the 9/11 Truthers and others.
how about Jerry Fallwell blaming 9-11 on the lesbians?

it seems to me that these men are two sides of the same coin. they are, indeed, cut from the same cloth, and i put about as much stock in either of their words.

but, ultimately, i disagree slightly less with Wright than i disagree with Fallwell. does that make it all kosher with me? no. does that make Obama's spiritual adviser slightly less scary than Fallwell, Robertson, and Dobson? yes.

and when Wright gets veto power over SCOTUS nominees -- you know, like Dobson does -- then i'll start to get pissed.
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Old 03-17-2008, 12:58 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

I'm guessing you thought your stereotype of liberals and FYM in the Airplane thread was funny...

That's still up in the air.

Quote:
Does Hagee fall in that list as well or do you give him a free ride due to his extreme right membership?
Hagee, as does Wright, has the right to endorse anyone he likes, but his church cannot. And he must do it on his own time, not from the pulpit. If I understand the tax laws correctly.
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Old 03-17-2008, 01:00 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaxFisher


Don Imus said plenty of positive things about various African Americans in his many years on the radio but he was fired for one offensive comment.

it works both ways.



Imus makes millions. he stood to lose millions. that was a business decision.




Quote:
Cheesecake Factory

the CF symbolizes, to me, everything that's wrong with america. waste. meaningless choice. people lining up for hours for iceberg lettuce salads and cheesecake that has way, way too much sugar.
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Old 03-17-2008, 01:10 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500

Hagee, as does Wright, has the right to endorse anyone he likes, but his church cannot. And he must do it on his own time, not from the pulpit. If I understand the tax laws correctly.
I'm glad you agree... It's too bad his church doesn't. Hagee's church endorsed Huck very openly until he left the race.
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Old 03-17-2008, 01:10 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
the CF symbolizes, to me, everything that's wrong with america. waste. meaningless choice. people lining up for hours for iceberg lettuce salads and cheesecake that has way, way too much sugar.
does someone need a hug?
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Old 03-17-2008, 01:12 AM   #67
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i feel the same way about Panera
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:31 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


the CF symbolizes, to me, everything that's wrong with america. waste. meaningless choice. people lining up for hours for iceberg lettuce salads and cheesecake that has way, way too much sugar.
Cheesecake at the big factory has it's place, but yes, everyday might be problem.............

Food, politics, a healthy balance is what we're after.
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:43 PM   #69
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Don't know a time yet, but this should be interesting:
Quote:
Obama plans major race speech tomorrow


Barack Obama will give a major speech on "the larger issue of race in this campaign," he told reporters in Monaca, PA just now.

He was pressed there, as he has been at recent appearances, on statements by his former pastor, Jeremiah Wright.

"I am going to be talking about not just Reverend Wright, but the larger issue of race in this campaign," he said.

He added that he would "talk about how some of these issues are perceived from within the black church issue for example," he said.

He also briefly defended Wright from the image that has come through in a handful of repeatedly televised clips from recent Wright sermons.

"The caricature that’s being painted of him is not accurate," he said.

The speech could offer Obama an opportunity to move past the controversy over his pastor, and to turn the conversation to a topic he'd rather focus on: his Christian faith. But the speech also guarantees that the Wright story will continue to dominate political headlines.

Mitt Romney's attempt directly to address his Mormonism last year never decisively put the issue to rest for some voters.

Obama's schedule puts him in Philadelphia tomorrow.
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:49 PM   #70
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^ a Romney moment?

i'm looking forward to it. no one could do such a speech better.

but then, expectations will be huge. will Obama live up to the hype?
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:55 PM   #71
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I guess we'll find out.

When I was home the last 2 weekends for spring break we had some interesting conversations about the Wright issue. My Dad, a recently retired pastor, had more sympathy for Wright.

He argued that what Rev. Wright was saying was spot on, but most of white America is not used to being exposed to the emotional tones of Black Protestantism.

Also Irvine, as a spiritual person I don't believe that having a religious counsel for a candidate who is also himself spiritual is "silly". Such a committee is more for the candidate himself rather than dictating any sort of religious tones in a campaign upon the followers.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:00 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
^ a Romney moment?

how well was Romney served by his speech?

was it his high mark?
and then fade away

Many think Obama has more explaining to do

it does not ring true
that he was not familiar with Wright remarks.


and what of his superior judgment?

that he has claimed since his 2002 "dumb war" speech.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:06 PM   #73
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as a "spiritual" person

my advice is get the hell away from so-called "religious" people that pick and choose "scripture" for an agenda.


most times there are "right" choices to make over "wrong" choices

or at least "more right" choices


muddying them up with "religion"
is sometimes a good way to miss the "right" choice in favor of the 'wrong"

we see this all the time when it is "other" peoples religion and have no problem calling it out.
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:14 PM   #74
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Are you guys familiar with the author Shelby Steele?
He offers a different landscape.......

Bill Moyers talks with Shelby Steele

http://www. p b s. org/moyers/journal/01112008/watch2.html

(delete spaces in between letters above)
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:29 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat
He argued that what Rev. Wright was saying was spot on, but most of white America is not used to being exposed to the emotional tones of Black Protestantism.



i think that's exactly right, and this is, come to think of it, the source of my "Cheesecake Factory whites" comment. thanks for puttting it into words.


Quote:
Also Irvine, as a spiritual person I don't believe that having a religious counsel for a candidate who is also himself spiritual is "silly". Such a committee is more for the candidate himself rather than dictating any sort of religious tones in a campaign upon the followers.

i guess i'm misunderstanding how he functions -- i had assumed that the spiritual adviser was there to Jesus-up the campaign.
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