wounded, heroic gay soldier too gay to serve - Page 10 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-12-2005, 04:24 PM   #136
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,881
Local Time: 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
I can't believe you guys are still dignifying that garbage with any response at all.

It's time we stopped giving these people a platform from which to spew their prejudices.
__________________

__________________
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 04-12-2005, 09:10 PM   #137
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,475
Local Time: 09:06 PM
well, i'd rather engage someone than simply dismiss them. perhaps i can change a mind?

on a selfish note, it's a great opportunity to write down what i'm thinking and make my arguments more coherent and lucid. we get nowhere without being challenged, and my thesis advisor had a saying: "There is no thinking, until you've done some writing; there is no writing, until you've done some rewriting."

that's why i spend a bunch of time in FYM -- i want to figure out what i'm thinking.
__________________

__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 04-13-2005, 12:45 PM   #138
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,334
Local Time: 06:06 PM
Still no answer to my question. Did the new guy give up?
__________________
martha is online now  
Old 04-13-2005, 01:33 PM   #139
The Fly
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 209
Local Time: 07:06 PM
I'm sorry did I miss somrthing where the Civil rights act provided for no discrimination of sexual orientation? Until that law is passed, I think your arguments are futile. At this time on a federal level, gays aren't given the same protections as minorities, yet many of you continue to liken your cause to that ogf blacks during the civil rights era of the 1960's. That is laughable!! Blacks in this country were dicriminated against on every level of there being. Housing, jobs, education, voting rights, sitting on buses,stores the could go to, etc. etc. etc.!!! How in the hell can you make the similarity? If you go to a job interview, no one would even know you were gay unless you told them. A black man, well its sort of obvious hes black now ain't it? And I would be willing to bet good money that most gays living in urban areas are probably on the upper level on the socio-economic scale. Again, the MAN has not been keeping you down!! Please quit making these similarities, because its pissing me and my black friends off!! Your struggle isn't the same. It's not even close!!

Oh, and as far as me being uncomfortable with me being forced to live, shower, undress, blah, blah, blah? Sorry, I have that right. Just as I have the same right to feel uncomfortable doing so in front of a woman. If you were to tell women in military, "we appreciate your service, but tomorrow, the military is integrating the sexes. We are going fully co-ed. No seperate shower facilities, no seperate living quarters,etc. The women's groups in this country would have an absolute shit kiniption. But you know what? The military won't do it because it would be utter caos.

On a personal note, if it does ever happen that gays are allowed to openly serve, I would be able to handle it fine. Many of you see me as the enemy, but my tolerance level is much higher than many of you may perceive my posts to be. Some of it is my personal feelings on the issue, other parts I am playing more devil's advocate. I will continue to view this forum with an open mind (whether you believe it or not). I will also continue to defend your right to completely disagree with me!
__________________
Abomb-baby is offline  
Old 04-13-2005, 01:38 PM   #140
pax
ONE
love, blood, life
 
pax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Abomb-baby
Blacks in this country were dicriminated against on every level of there being. Housing, jobs, education, voting rights, sitting on buses,stores the could go to, etc. etc. etc.!!! How in the hell can you make the similarity? If you go to a job interview, no one would even know you were gay unless you told them. A black man, well its sort of obvious hes black now ain't it? And I would be willing to bet good money that most gays living in urban areas are probably on the upper level on the socio-economic scale. Again, the MAN has not been keeping you down!! Please quit making these similarities, because its pissing me and my black friends off!! Your struggle isn't the same. It's not even close!!

While I agree that no one (that I know of) has tried to deny gay persons the right to vote or ride public transportation, its simply untrue that there's no discrimination against gay people whatsoever. There have been wrongful termination lawsuits brought against companies who fired openly gay employees; homophobic landlords can (and do) deny housing to gay couples, for example. Is it perfectly akin to discrimination against black people? Well, no, the major difference being that gays have not, as a class of people, been enslaved for hundreds of years. But there are parallels that are not insignificant.
__________________
and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time


Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
Old 04-13-2005, 02:01 PM   #141
The Fly
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 209
Local Time: 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by pax


While I agree that no one (that I know of) has tried to deny gay persons the right to vote or ride public transportation, its simply untrue that there's no discrimination against gay people whatsoever. There have been wrongful termination lawsuits brought against companies who fired openly gay employees; homophobic landlords can (and do) deny housing to gay couples, for example. Is it perfectly akin to discrimination against black people? Well, no, the major difference being that gays have not, as a class of people, been enslaved for hundreds of years. But there are parallels that are not insignificant.
I never said their was never ANY discrimination against gay people. Do white, straight men NEVER get discriminated against? I have been discriminated against before. It sucks. But lifes not fair. It never is and it never will be. I just don't cry about it every time it happens to me. Even if I did, no one would give a shit. "Oh, your a straight, white male. To fuckin bad," is all I would here from the majority of other groups. We all face discrimination. Whether you want to believe it or not is up to you.
__________________
Abomb-baby is offline  
Old 04-13-2005, 02:15 PM   #142
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,475
Local Time: 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Abomb-baby
I'm sorry did I miss somrthing where the Civil rights act provided for no discrimination of sexual orientation? Until that law is passed, I think your arguments are futile. At this time on a federal level, gays aren't given the same protections as minorities, yet many of you continue to liken your cause to that ogf blacks during the civil rights era of the 1960's. That is laughable!! Blacks in this country were dicriminated against on every level of there being. Housing, jobs, education, voting rights, sitting on buses,stores the could go to, etc. etc. etc.!!! How in the hell can you make the similarity? If you go to a job interview, no one would even know you were gay unless you told them. A black man, well its sort of obvious hes black now ain't it? And I would be willing to bet good money that most gays living in urban areas are probably on the upper level on the socio-economic scale. Again, the MAN has not been keeping you down!! Please quit making these similarities, because its pissing me and my black friends off!! Your struggle isn't the same. It's not even close!!

in one sense, you're right; being gay is not like being black, it's more like being Jewish.

and Jewish people are never discriminated against, right?
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 04-13-2005, 03:34 PM   #143
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,475
Local Time: 09:06 PM
i also think you've failed to answer the following questions:

1. how does your right to be "comfortable" -- as you understand it, making it very subjective -- become more important than a gay person's right to serve in the military and not have to live a double life?

2. is this vague notion of "unit cohesion" more important than all of the talented gay people in other branches of the armed forces -- remember, we're talking as much about Pentagon desk jobs as we are talking about kids in Fallujah -- and especially in regards to the translators mentioned over and over? like our brilliant gay translators, let's not forget that the segregated 442nd Division of all Japanese-American soldiers was the most highly decorated unit in the WW2 European theater ... isn't the army better off tapping into the talents of gay Americans rather than shutting them out, isn't the army better today precisely because of the talents that non-white americans bring?

3. is it in the military's best interests to remain one of the last outposts of homophobia and ignorance in American society? just how is this any different from the intergration of non-white soldiers into the Army?
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 04-13-2005, 03:57 PM   #144
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,334
Local Time: 06:06 PM
That guy is hopeless.
__________________
martha is online now  
Old 04-13-2005, 04:00 PM   #145
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,334
Local Time: 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Abomb-baby


Oh, and as far as me being uncomfortable with me being forced to live, shower, undress, blah, blah, blah? Sorry, I have that right. Just as I have the same right to feel uncomfortable doing so in front of a woman. If you were to tell women in military, "we appreciate your service, but tomorrow, the military is integrating the sexes. We are going fully co-ed. No seperate shower facilities, no seperate living quarters,etc. The women's groups in this country would have an absolute shit kiniption. But you know what? The military won't do it because it would be utter caos.
I tell ya what, when straight white men (poor babies) stop raping women, then we can talk about sharing facilities.

Until then, they will be separate.


Now I can't wait for the fear of gay rape in this guy.
__________________
martha is online now  
Old 04-13-2005, 04:01 PM   #146
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,334
Local Time: 06:06 PM
Now, Subterranean Homesick Alien is on, so I'm off to listen to it.
__________________
martha is online now  
Old 04-13-2005, 06:52 PM   #147
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,475
Local Time: 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by martha


I tell ya what, when straight white men (poor babies) stop raping women, then we can talk about sharing facilities.




wow.

home run.
__________________
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 04-13-2005, 09:23 PM   #148
The Fly
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 209
Local Time: 07:06 PM
Irvine if you could send me the link about the interpreters I would like to read it please.

And Martha, your comments have brought nothing to the discussion except confirm my feelings about liberal thought in general. Thank you
__________________
Abomb-baby is offline  
Old 04-13-2005, 09:30 PM   #149
pax
ONE
love, blood, life
 
pax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ewen's new American home
Posts: 11,412
Local Time: 10:06 PM
You're welcome.

I agree with her, by the way.

In fact, while we're on the subject, what do you think about scandals involving claims of sexual harassment and rape in the military that were covered up or dealt with insufficiently--acts committed largely, if not exlcusively, by heterosexual men?
__________________
and you hunger for the time
time to heal, desire, time


Join Amnesty.
pax is offline  
Old 04-13-2005, 09:49 PM   #150
The Fly
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 209
Local Time: 07:06 PM
Well, were not on the subject actually. If you'd like to know myopinion about it, start another thread.
__________________

__________________
Abomb-baby is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com