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Old 01-20-2007, 09:24 AM   #121
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Yolland is the smartest man on the face of the planet.
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Old 01-20-2007, 09:51 AM   #122
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Old 01-20-2007, 10:39 AM   #123
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Even more brilliant!
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Old 01-20-2007, 11:30 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally posted by OceanGirl

Yes, it is definitely ok to ask a partner what they think about while they are at it and no way in hell would it be ok to say "none of your business"... of course it is their business!!!
How is it their business?

Like yolland said
Quote:
obviously those fantasies aren't going to be limited to images, thoughts, or scenarios involving each other only.
Given that, I don't see why someone would ask such a thing.
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Old 01-20-2007, 08:48 PM   #125
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sometimes it amazes me how much people can get out of, well, nothing.

9 pages.
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Old 01-20-2007, 08:54 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally posted by OceanGirl
I don't see any problem with ther checking your computer. There shouldn't be any "privacy" issues when you are a couple. As far as I see it, once you are in a stable relationship with someone (especially someone you are going to marry), then NOTHING should be kept private from that person!

As for porn - ick! My husband doesn't look at it because he knows that the thought of him looking at other women naked makes my skin crawl!!! He did have a stash of porn when we met, but it went in the bin as soon as I became aware of it.

I don't consider looking at other women naked and having a flog over them to be particularly respectful or faithful towards your partner. It just isn't something I would be happy to put up with in a relationship.

..I like some privacy thank you very much
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Old 01-20-2007, 09:07 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally posted by OceanGirl
There shouldn't be any "privacy" issues when you are a couple. As far as I see it, once you are in a stable relationship with someone (especially someone you are going to marry), then NOTHING should be kept private from that person!
so ya'll pee with the door open?

i totally disagree. a relationship means people are joined together, but that doesn't mean they lose sense of themselves. Since people are quoting others, I'm gonna quote one of my favorite mystic poets...who I think tells it all brilliantly

...but let there be spaces in your togetherness
and let the winds of the heavens dance between

Love one another, but make not a bond of love:
Let it rather be a mving sea between the shores of your souls.
Fill each other's cup but drink not from one cup.
Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf.
Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone,
Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music

Give your hearts, but not into each other's keeping.
For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts.
And stand together yet not too near together:
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other's shadow.




Anyway, I think the bigger issue here is mistrust and doubt, which I think is more harmful to a relationship than the porn. Why else would you want to go all up in someone's business unless you were looking for something to prove your doubts?
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Old 01-20-2007, 09:09 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally posted by redhotswami

so ya'll pee with the door open?
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Old 01-20-2007, 11:00 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally posted by redhotswami


so ya'll pee with the door open?

i totally disagree. a relationship means people are joined together, but that doesn't mean they lose sense of themselves. Since people are quoting others, I'm gonna quote one of my favorite mystic poets...who I think tells it all brilliantly

...but let there be spaces in your togetherness
and let the winds of the heavens dance between

Love one another, but make not a bond of love:
Let it rather be a mving sea between the shores of your souls.
Fill each other's cup but drink not from one cup.
Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf.
Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone,
Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music

Give your hearts, but not into each other's keeping.
For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts.
And stand together yet not too near together:
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other's shadow.




Anyway, I think the bigger issue here is mistrust and doubt, which I think is more harmful to a relationship than the porn. Why else would you want to go all up in someone's business unless you were looking for something to prove your doubts?
Oh, that's lovely poem...I feel like I should know who the poet is (Khalil Gihbran it sounds like?) , but in my ignorance I don't...tell us?!

And I agree, well stated, I think the issue for MrPryk2U is more mistrust and doubt then porn necessarily...

But there is the issue of porn too being brought up, as Yolland does. I'm not quite sure I was able to digest all Yolland said lol (and what is paraphilia? love of ...?)
But I think I agree that you just have to accept certain things about the one you love.
Some things could be 'dealbreakers', like a love of being in the mafia, for instance, but for me porn wouldn't be in that category.
Though I would have, I'd hope, vigorous debates about the quality of any individual bit of it, its role in the exploitation and objectification of women (all that 'feminist' stuff that is), and he would be okay with my comments. I haven't had to deal with all this with my spouse, so I don't know how it would go for sure. He's happy with the Victoria's Secret catalog lol. I have even suggested, when they're being advertised for cheap or as a fundraiser for instance, subscriptions to Maxim-y kinda mags, or at least some with more variety in the models and bodies than the VS catalogs (god, I think I'd enjoy them too!), but he hasn't wanted them for whatever reason. I'm sure I wouldn't need to show disgust or shame him, unless he seemed to 'need' to comsume some form of porn that was, oh say, about truly harming women for instance. Then, he'd have to do that waaay out of my sight I think.

The thing about porn that I find generally 'icky' isn't about shame so much as it is about aesthetics, and the aesthetics issue isn't really even so much about exploitation or objectification or reduction of women to collections of sexual parts; it's not the 'dirty' or the cheeky-naughty I object to (that can be kinda fun), I just don't like it when it (and it doesn't always do this, nor does it have to inherently) is focused on sex-and-power issues.
I can see how some women focus on body-image issues, and I also agree with Yolland's points about that...how that ultimately is very much about one's own self-cognition and input can serve only as that, as input (your thighs are you thighs that is; it's easier to feel good about them when they're firm and proportional, but how you feel about them is, similarly, how you feel about them)

And I often pee with the door open, but expect my email to not be checked and my fantasies to be my business unless I feel like sharing...

And U2Man, how is this about 'nothing' lol? Sex and porn and privacy count as nothing to you? Are you busy with world domination, or is it drugs and rocknroll that primarily concern you?!

cheers all!
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Old 01-20-2007, 11:13 PM   #130
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My roommate got divorced last year. They had multiple problems in their marriage but porn did play a role. He hid it from her while they dated, and she only "caught" him after they got married. Then he'd obsessively be deleting his internet files from their shared computer. He told her he was no longer watching porn, then his brother unknowingly dropped off some DVDs with my roommate. She said it wasn't so much the porn issue itself, but the fact he was willing to go to lengths to lie to her about this. It made her question what else he was dishonest about.
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Old 01-21-2007, 12:23 AM   #131
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^ I have friends in a similar situation. Everyone knew the guy was watching porn for several hours a day b/c another guy in the house who ran their network and servers would keep track of all the Internet traffic. I don't really care, since it's none of my business, but his fiancee (one of my best friends) is REALLY REALLY conservative and thought he was this innocent boy. I never felt it was my place to inform her that when he told her he needed to go home and study, he was watching porn. I really didn't want her to find out too late, b/c I knew it would affect her, so I brought up how this guy at the guys' house was keeping track of all the porn websites all the roommates went to. She didn't take the hint and was like "well, I know Brad would NEVER do a thing like that" so I let it go for good. She was either even more naive than I thought (if that's possible) or in denial. It has always bothered me and still does, not the porn itself, but that he lied to her everyday and would rather be watching porn for hours on end than spending time with her. They're still together so hopefully they've worked it out.
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Old 01-21-2007, 01:03 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally posted by ShellBeThere


Oh, that's lovely poem...I feel like I should know who the poet is (Khalil Gihbran it sounds like?) , but in my ignorance I don't...tell us?!
It is! It is! You're a fan!

Quote:
And I often pee with the door open, but expect my email to not be checked and my fantasies to be my business unless I feel like sharing...
I don't pee with the door open myself (I have a dog...so...kinda weird. Though I watch him pee, I don't let him watch me pee), but yeah I agree with you about stuff being your business. So then do you still feel what you said earlier in that there shouldn't be privacy issues because nothing should be kept private from the other?
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Old 01-21-2007, 01:46 AM   #133
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Originally posted by redhotswami


It is! It is! You're a fan!



I don't pee with the door open myself (I have a dog...so...kinda weird. Though I watch him pee, I don't let him watch me pee), but yeah I agree with you about stuff being your business. So then do you still feel what you said earlier in that there shouldn't be privacy issues because nothing should be kept private from the other?
I am a fan! ...though one who knows too little, mostly quotes from books I borrowed to write my wedding vows lol.
I don't recall if I used any Gibran quotes but I should have!

I actually didn't say earlier that there shouldn't be privacy issues...
I'm a fan of privacy and the idea, as expressed so nicely in that poem, that when you become a 'couple' you don't meld into a single entity...

I'm actually the one who way upthread now revealed that I had serious issues with my spouse reading my emails, and getting upset with things he learned there that he shouldn't have been reading about in the first place because they weren't for him to see, they were buried in long letters I'd written to a friend.

and 'wow' to the stories about problems with porn that Liesje and anitram tell of. Shame and secrecy about it surely add to the whole problematic nature of it in society and in relationships. *Hours* a day?! I sort of agree with MrPryck2U's assessment that if you're looking at porn for more than 10 minutes at a time there's something "wrong" lol...

Cheers!
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Old 01-21-2007, 01:59 AM   #134
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Originally posted by ShellBeThere


I am a fan...though one who knows too little, mostly quotes from books I borrowed to write my wedding vows lol.
I don't recall if I used any Gibran quotes but I should have!

I actually didn't say earlier that there shouldn't be privacy issues...
I'm a fan of privacy and the idea, as expressed so nicely in that poem, that when you become a 'couple' you don't meld into a single entity...

I'm actually the one who way upthread now revealed that I had serious issues with my spouse reading my emails, and getting upset with things he learned there that he shouldn't have been reading about in the first place because they weren't for him to see, they were buried in long letters I'd written to a friend.

and 'wow' to the stories about problems with porn that Liesje and anitram tell of. Shame and secrecy about it surely add to the whole problematic nature of it in society and in relationships. *Hours* a day?! I sort of agree with MrPryck2U's assessment that if you're looking at porn for more than 10 minutes at a time there's something "wrong" lol...

Cheers!
:headslap: i am so sorry!!!! i don't know how i confused you with the poster i was quoting. i thought it was weird that your stance would be COMPLETELY different.

i'm very very sorry! im usually better about that. i must be tired or something. really though, pleaase forgive me. i'm going to bed right after i post this so i don't make any more mistakes like this tonight!

Anyway, The Prophet is one of my fav books of all time! Is that one of the ones you looked at?

as for the stories mentioned above... though, lol sometimes i wish my students had more of the shame and secrecy of watching porn...especially in public computer labs. but then...maybe they watch it there to avoid sneaky significant others who explore the internet history on their computers in their rooms?
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Old 01-21-2007, 02:46 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally posted by redhotswami


:headslap: i am so sorry!!!! i don't know how i confused you with the poster i was quoting. i thought it was weird that your stance would be COMPLETELY different.

i'm very very sorry! im usually better about that. i must be tired or something. really though, pleaase forgive me. i'm going to bed right after i post this so i don't make any more mistakes like this tonight!

Anyway, The Prophet is one of my fav books of all time! Is that one of the ones you looked at?

as for the stories mentioned above... though, lol sometimes i wish my students had more of the shame and secrecy of watching porn...especially in public computer labs. but then...maybe they watch it there to avoid sneaky significant others who explore the internet history on their computers in their rooms?
No problem at all! I just meant to clarify
I did look at The Prophet, I think. Though Gibran is quoted *often* for weddings and such, and I might have merely seen some of his most typically excerpted passages in some compilation. But now that you bring it up and share with us some of his writing, I think I will hit the library up for a copy to read again, or for the first time.

I thought typically when students log in to a university-computer they are supposed to abide by a sort of community-standards agreement, and not look at potentially 'offensive' material, so you don't have to see, even peripherally, other people's porn as it were. But, of course, it would feel a bit awkward to go around being the internet police and saying 'hey; look at the porn on your own machines!'. yeah, I don't doubt that some are more willing to have their profs and peers see their porn than risk getting 'caught' at home!

Cheers...
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