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Old 01-18-2007, 11:31 PM   #106
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Originally posted by Vincent Vega
Hayek is her last name

We had the same soap over here in Germany called In Love in Berlin (Verliebt in Berlin), but that was shit and I never watched it.
Thanks...I knew I was misspelling it but had a brainfreeze

I also didn't notice that ...who was it now?...I am losing brain cells in a big way, I just saw it!...someone had already said how it was a mexican soap hayek was producing upthread...

cheers!
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Old 01-18-2007, 11:47 PM   #107
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Originally posted by Irvine511




a question for you -- would it be withing the bounds of "acceptable" for a woman to, say, ask that her husband not masturbate because it made her feel uncomfortable or insecure?

i understand your point about porn -- people can not be threatened by it but have a moral objection to it (legal porn) or problems about what it does to society and in the same way that, say, someone might ask that their spouse not smoke or even drink alcohol.

Oh my god I can't see how it can be acceptable to ask your partner not to masturbate!!!!!
when you get married or pair up you suddenly own the partner's very body?!
Yeah, sure, every relationship is different and all, but i have a serious problem with the idea that anybody can tell someone else not to masturbate. Not to masturbate in front of them sure, but I think it is a major 'boundaries' issue to expect the right to get inside your partner's head to the point of stating preferences regarding their fantasies or what parts of their bodies they touch.

If it is impinging on their lovelives, like in that story, then sure it is reasonable to address, but otherwise why?!

And really, the same for media consumption. I think if my spouse suddenly was into porn flicks or mags, I might give the speech about how degrading it is to women, very often the making of it is exploitative etc, but I wouldn't "forbid" it, just ask that I not have to look at it because it disturbs me. First ammendment and all (though I've seen arguments about how to get porn exempted...just saying, not saying I buy those arguments). The internet is actually a great place for a guy to indulge in that, since then I don't have to have it lying around.

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Old 01-19-2007, 12:58 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




a question for you -- would it be withing the bounds of "acceptable" for a woman to, say, ask that her husband not masturbate because it made her feel uncomfortable or insecure?

definately crossing the line
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Old 01-19-2007, 02:23 AM   #109
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I think that what is "acceptable" always exists within the context of each relationship, and it is very difficult to remove it from that context. For me what is acceptable is to discuss these things openly and honestly, the problems begin when that communication stops. It's all about the context in which the masturbation and anything else is happening, after all it's natural human behavior to do that and it can have nothing whatsoever to do with your relationship. It can become unhealthy, and that's when it becomes an issue. By unhealthy I mean obsessive and if it is in avoidance of other issues, sexual or otherwise, in the relationship. Or it can be healthy and not a problem. It's all about communication and being comfortable enough with that person to talk about all that stuff. I would have issues with a guy who was secretive about porn and any related issues, that would be the main issue for me. And if it existed in the context of other problems and issues in the relationship. And if he didn't respect me enough to be open and honest about all that stuff, and to listen to what I had to say about it and care about my feelings.

I don't think age or maturity has much to do with the whole porn issue either. There can be older people who deal with it in certain ways and younger ones who can deal with it openly and honestly.
[too much personal information] I don't like porn, and it has nothing to do with feeling insecure (though I do feel insecure in general, my husband certainly never makes me feel undesirable) or threatened. It's just part of a whole range of feeling that I don't experience or understand. To me, it's like someone liking jellied eel (or Nick Lachey ). It's just something we both have to accept we feel differently about, and set boundaries accordingly.

[/too much personal information]
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Old 01-19-2007, 03:37 AM   #110
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I don't see any problem with ther checking your computer. There shouldn't be any "privacy" issues when you are a couple. As far as I see it, once you are in a stable relationship with someone (especially someone you are going to marry), then NOTHING should be kept private from that person!

As for porn - ick! My husband doesn't look at it because he knows that the thought of him looking at other women naked makes my skin crawl!!! He did have a stash of porn when we met, but it went in the bin as soon as I became aware of it.

I don't consider looking at other women naked and having a flog over them to be particularly respectful or faithful towards your partner. It just isn't something I would be happy to put up with in a relationship.
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Old 01-19-2007, 08:48 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally posted by meegannie


[too much personal information] I don't like porn, and it has nothing to do with feeling insecure (though I do feel insecure in general, my husband certainly never makes me feel undesirable) or threatened. It's just part of a whole range of feeling that I don't experience or understand. To me, it's like someone liking jellied eel (or Nick Lachey ). It's just something we both have to accept we feel differently about, and set boundaries accordingly.

[/too much personal information]

That's not too much personal information at all, and thanks for sharing it Honestly I don't like it either-watching fake plastic people going at it in such a fake, graphic, meaningless way is not sexy at all to me. To me it cheapens sex, and at times it can objectify people too. For me it usually does. I know men are supposedly visual and all that, but why is that sexy to you? To me what is sexy is what is erotic, sensual, and all that-the imagination. I think some guys are too lazy to use their imaginations, to be honest. It's a helluva lot more interesting to me, and so much sexier. I understand that it is an urge that you just sometimes need to satisfy, women have those urges too. But watching Grey's Anatomy with someone can be very sexy too, much sexier than porn could ever be. It's about making an intimate comfortable connection with someone.

I would want a guy who will watch Grey's Anatomy with me and not be thinking, "gee I can't wait to get this over with so I can go look at some porn" and masturbate or whatever. I want him to be interested in what I'm interested in. It's all about the mindset surrounding the porn and about women and about sex, and the perspective that he has it in. And the communication. I am compatible with someone who has a like mindset about it, and some things I just can't compromise on. Some things that are central to the person that I am. When you start compromising those things, life becomes very miserable. Obviously you have to compromise in a relationship, but never who you are-that just isn't who I am, to do that. For anyone.

I never said I thought it was acceptable to ask someone not to masturbate, it is when it becomes problematic in the relationship that it is an issue. It's a means of satisfying a normal physical urge, but we don't have to become slaves to our physical urges either. Once again, it's all in the perspective and attitude.
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Old 01-19-2007, 08:49 AM   #112
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Originally posted by OceanGirl
I don't see any problem with ther checking your computer. There shouldn't be any "privacy" issues when you are a couple. As far as I see it, once you are in a stable relationship with someone (especially someone you are going to marry), then NOTHING should be kept private from that person!

So, a question then:
It would thusly be okay also to ask your partner not to masturbate? Or to ask them if they did today or not? Or if masturbation was deemed okay by both partners (do people really have these discussions when they get hitched? so, can I masturbate still honey?!), would it be okay for one spouse to ask the other, so honey, what do you think about when you masturbate, and *not* accept a "none of your business!" answer?! Open the spouse's snailmail letters? Nothing is private?!

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Old 01-19-2007, 10:59 AM   #113
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Originally posted by Irvine511
in my relationship, an ongoing joke is that we always tell each other that we only think of the other.
In my marriage we have a similar understanding...not quite to the casual familiarity level of joking about it, but an untroubled acceptance that yes, obviously both of us fantasize and obviously those fantasies aren't going to be limited to images, thoughts, or scenarios involving each other only.

I guess like you, I'm a little puzzled as to how some who feel certain lines need to be drawn here would propose to draw them fairly and reasonably in the absence of something like a shared moral view drawn from religious or, perhaps, feminist ethics. Some of these posts leave me wondering if the fact that male fantasies in particular often involve actual objects (pornographic images, as opposed to ones in your head) perhaps makes them a bit too easy to 'pathologize'--to presume that they inevitably tend towards some kind of dysfunctional dependency, or that they're like a forest fire which can and should be contained by manipulating the image supply. It's rare to hear men fretting about the content of their wives'/girlfriends' fantasies in this way. As you said, how far should it go? Should a man and his female partner have to regularly sit down and give each other a comprehensive account of the various combinations of real-but-inaccessible, real-but-(theoretically)-accessible, and completely imaginary people who've appeared in their fantasies during the last however many weeks? To some of the women in here who (apparently?) think pornography is inherently 'icky' somehow simply because it involves literal images, or images in a certain style--honestly, how would you feel about it if your male partner had the ability to "see" every fantasy you have in its entirety and anxiously picked your brains about why certain men, body types and actions are present in them and what exactly this says about your desires or your attraction to him? (Nothing against sharing certain fantasies with each other here, that can definitely be enjoyable and there's a time and place for that, but there's always so much more that's left unsaid.) If you don't feel the need to make your husband spell out that he wanked off to a purely mental image of [name of sexy starlet] last Tuesday evening, then does it really make sense to be bothered if he availed himself of an actual image of her instead? Again, if there's some previously agreed upon moral rejection of porn, fine--but if not, then I have a hard time understanding how the existence of an actual picture changes the meaning of it such that it becomes a 'problem' the man should be 'blamed' (shamed?) for somehow.

I'm not sure it's really possible for a man to 'help' his partner feel the way night_and_day does, as MrsS put it--I think that may be like asking him to 'help' her feel that her hips aren't unattractively wide or her legs unappealingly short; of course he can tell her that isn't so day in and day out but in the end, that's something she has to come to terms with herself--no one else can give you self-acceptance, and I'm getting the sense that that's what underlies the tendency to see pornography as a 'threat' in most cases (as opposed to having reasonable cause to suspect, e.g., an actual paraphilia, where the man manifestly has difficulty participating in reciprocal physical affection, experiencing arousal, etc. without porn). True, to a point when you're in a relationship something that's an intimacy obstacle for one partner de facto becomes an intimacy obstacle for both, so if a man doesn't mind handling that in a particular case by simply swearing off porn and relying solely on his imagination--and that satisfies his partner--then fine. But I don't know that it's any more intrinsically fair or reasonable to expect or demand that of him than it is to expect or demand that the woman "just get over herself and deal with it already." Sex is mutual, but fantasy is deeply personal, and sometimes in a relationship you have to compromise on the deeply personal things and accept them as part of how the person you love simply is, independent of their feelings for you.
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Old 01-19-2007, 02:47 PM   #114
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I certainly agree that no one else can give you self-acceptance-absolutely 100 % true.

But someone can give you love and understanding and talk to you and have truly meaningful discussions. Sometimes what is not said hurts more than what is. And what is not said can lead to self-doubt, and doubts about the other person and the relationship. That's more like what I was getting at.

And by communication I don't mean sharing every little detail about fantasy and all that. If you share all that, what mystery is left? And you need some mystery, and independence and privacy. There is a big difference between that mystery and independence and privacy and secrecy and avoidance and closing yourself off from the other person in favor of porn-that is when it becomes a problem.
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Old 01-19-2007, 04:26 PM   #115
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ummmmmmm research?

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Old 01-19-2007, 04:37 PM   #116
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No.



Sex is natural, sex is fun, sex is better when it's one on one.
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Old 01-19-2007, 05:06 PM   #117
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Ok, you're quoting George Michael. Now I'm scared.

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Old 01-20-2007, 02:19 AM   #118
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It would thusly be okay also to ask your partner not to masturbate? Or to ask them if they did today or not? Or if masturbation was deemed okay by both partners (do people really have these discussions when they get hitched? so, can I masturbate still honey?!), would it be okay for one spouse to ask the other, so honey, what do you think about when you masturbate, and *not* accept a "none of your business!" answer?! Open the spouse's snailmail letters? Nothing is private?!
No, I don't think it is ok to ask a partner not to masturbate. If they want to, then go for it... BUT it is perfectly acceptable to tell them you don't appreciate them doing it over naked pictures of other women!! Yes, it is definitely ok to ask a partner what they think about while they are at it and no way in hell would it be ok to say "none of your business"... of course it is their business!!!

And yep, my husband and I open eachothers letters, emails, open text messages, answer eachothers phones etc etc... if you have nothing to hide, then why hide it? I'd seriously wonder about someone who thought they needed privacy from their spouse!
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Old 01-20-2007, 09:02 AM   #119
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The difference here is, she didn't open his mail because both agreed on doing this, but she intentionally sneaked onto the computer to only to check his browser's history to know what he does if she isn't around.

And, yes, I think in a relationship or marriage you should be allowed to keep things in private or as a secret for yourself if you want so.
Maybe not your masturbation practices if it has a negative effect on your relationship, but there are always things you want to keep for yourself.
At least I'm not a person that tells others everything about me, and I wouldn't feel fine if my girlfriend/wife asked me to tell her everything about me.
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Old 01-20-2007, 09:16 AM   #120
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I just find it interesting that many males seem to be uncomfortable discussing this subject in a serious way, it ends up in joking sexual references like it's Porky's or something . Why is that? I'm not indicting anyone, just wondering. Is it that way with your partners or is it just discussing it on a message board?
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